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THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 09 Aug 2020, 16:57:05

Thanks, Tanada.

Again, much respect and many apologies.

I hope you and yours are doing well
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Aug 2020, 21:06:28


Week beginning on August 9, 2020: 412.74 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 410.30 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 388.86 ppm


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I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Aug 2020, 21:07:10


August 19: 412.15 ppm
August 18: Unavailable
August 17: 412.58 ppm
August 16: Unavailable
August 15: 412.54 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 27 Aug 2020, 10:38:51


Week beginning on August 16, 2020: 412.39 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 409.74 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 388.38 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 27 Aug 2020, 10:39:31


August 26: 411.99 ppm
August 25: 412.47 ppm
August 24: 411.96 ppm
August 23: 412.21 ppm
August 22: 412.58 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 27 Aug 2020, 10:53:18

Tanada wrote:
Week beginning on August 16, 2020: 412.39 ppm


I mean, there's no sign of this slowing down anytime soon, right?
How fucked are we? Let's say in 2050, how different could the world look like by then?
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 27 Aug 2020, 13:00:13

mousepad wrote:
Tanada wrote:
Week beginning on August 16, 2020: 412.39 ppm


I mean, there's no sign of this slowing down anytime soon, right?
How fucked are we? Let's say in 2050, how different could the world look like by then?


Climate scientists estimate that somewhere between 400 ppmv and 540 ppmv we will cross the tipping point where the Northern Hemisphere is in a semi-tropical climate condition. At the current rate of increase circa 2.7 ppmv/year it would take 52 years to go from 400 to 540 ppmv, however we crossed the 400 ppmv threshold on an annual minimum basis in 2016 and as an annual high point in May 2013. So if we add 52 to each of these numbers we get between 2065-2068 as the latest date for the climate to flip.

All that being said I suspect the date will be much sooner as every decade has averaged lower Arctic Sea Ice by volume and also northern hemisphere temperature averages on the annual basis have continued to be higher each decade.

The huge disconnect between science and how it is reported is that the media continues to portray a future where things are just a little warmer each year gradually shifting to a different condition. We know from dozens of reconstructions of paleoclimate that this is not how the climate responds to forcing in any direction by any factor, not just CO2.

Climate state reflects an undoubted tipping point behavior where a climate can be perturbed for years or even decades and then suddenly in a period of 5-10 years it transitions to a completely different mode of operation.

Once we perturb the climate sufficiently to cross that tipping point then things are going to rapidly change. Where I live in Northern Ohio will in the port tipping point world closely resemble the semi-tropical environment of Florida today. That climate condition will extend to roughly 62 degrees north which covers such locations as Anchorage, Alaska and Helsinki, Finland. From 62-75 degrees north will switch to a temperate climate like that we now experience in Iowa or perhaps the Ukraine where in the winter it snows but in the summer it gets quite warm. And north of 75 degrees will be kind of like modern Iceland where it snows in winter but you have a cool summer that is warm enough to melt the snow and prevent it from accumulating into glaciers.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 10:36:31


August 2020: 412.55 ppm
August 2019: 409.95 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 10:37:23


Week beginning on August 30, 2020: 411.59 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 408.82 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 387.59 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 11 Sep 2020, 10:37:55


September 10: 410.99 ppm
September 09: 411.16 ppm
September 08: 411.75 ppm
September 07: 411.37 ppm
September 06: 411.89 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 18 Sep 2020, 15:22:06


Week beginning on September 6, 2020: 411.37 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 408.75 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 386.26 ppm


We are getting to that time of year where things bottom out so I will try and post weekly for the next 6 weeks or so to try and catch it as it passes.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 18 Sep 2020, 15:22:55


September 17: 411.17 ppm
September 16: 411.66 ppm
September 15: 411.84 ppm
September 14: 411.48 ppm
September 13: 411.84 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 01:31:53

World's richest 1% cause double CO2 emissions of poorest 50%, says Oxfam

Charity says world’s fast-shrinking carbon budget should be used to improve lot of poorest

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... says-oxfam

The wealthiest 1% of the world’s population were responsible for the emission of more than twice as much carbon dioxide as the poorer half of the world from 1990 to 2015, according to new research.

Carbon dioxide emissions rose by 60% over the 25-year period, but the increase in emissions from the richest 1% was three times greater than the increase in emissions from the poorest half.

The report, compiled by Oxfam and the Stockholm Environment Institute, warned that rampant overconsumption and the rich world’s addiction to high-carbon transport are exhausting the world’s “carbon budget”.

Such a concentration of carbon emissions in the hands of the rich means that despite taking the world to the brink of climate catastrophe, through burning fossil fuels, we have still failed to improve the lives of billions, said Tim Gore, head of policy, advocacy and research at Oxfam International.

The global carbon budget has been squandered to expand the consumption of the already rich, rather than to improve humanity,” he told the Guardian. “A finite amount of carbon can be added to the atmosphere if we want to avoid the worst impacts of the climate crisis. We need to ensure that carbon is used for the best.”


The richest 10% of the global population, comprising about 630 million people, were responsible for about 52% of global emissions over the 25-year period, the study showed.

Globally, the richest 10% are those with incomes above about $35,000 (£27,000) a year, and the richest 1% are people earning more than about $100,000.

..a finite carbon budget of how much carbon dioxide it is safe to produce, which scientists warn will be exhausted within a decade at current rates.

Oxfam argues that continuing to allow the rich world to emit vastly more than those in poverty is unfair. While the world moves towards renewable energy and phases out fossil fuels, any emissions that continue to be necessary during the transition would be better used in trying to improve poor people’s access to basic amenities.

The best possible, morally defensible purpose is for all humanity to live a decent life, but [the carbon budget] has been used up by the already rich, in getting richer”...


(my emphases)

From an earth perspective (which really should be the main perspective we all view things from), the central function of modern industrial society/economy is to transform the riches and beauties of the earth into toxic waste and trash.

And the global wealthy (which probably includes most posters on this forum) are the juggernauts of that economy.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 05:48:25

dohboi wrote:And the global wealthy (which probably includes most posters on this forum) are the juggernauts of that economy.


It is a little more complicated than its all the rich fault. Much of the fault goes to the rich but overall the destruction from global populations that are too large is just as significant. Land use impacts from the poor is huge. Water quality and supply degradation is another impact. Pollution with plastics and sewage uncontrolled is another huge factor. Food consumption from the local biosphere pressuring ecosystems. With the above examples land use is the only impact to the carbon budget the others have a similar impact to quality of the earth system for all life.

So we get back to another distortion of the truth from a charity. Their focus is go low carbon green and consume less but nothing is said about overpopulation. No effort will make much difference until populations are reduced in my opinion. Economist want to argue population is not an issue. Many techno greens are more concerned with reducing carbon consumption than also reducing populations. It will take both especially considering the poor elevate in the higher consumption class as development impacts regions. Just look at Asia and especially China for what happens has large population nations get wealthier. China is producing more carbon than the rest of the rich world combined. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... ceeeb6628c
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 08:42:40


Week beginning on September 13, 2020: 411.47 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 408.48 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 387.00 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 08:44:11


September 20: 411.12 ppm
September 19: 411.16 ppm
September 18: 411.15 ppm
September 17: 411.17 ppm
September 16: 411.66 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 16:15:12

RG, I actually like a lot of what you post, but that was not one of your best.

I'll start at the end--China now IS the 'rich world':

China overtakes US in rankings of world's richest people

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... est-people

...100 million Chinese people among the world’s top 10% of richest people, compared with 99 million in the US.


It is the over population of rich people that is the main problem, as the study I cited pointed out. None of what you opined contradicts this brutally obvious fact

::::::::::::::::

Thanks again for the graphs and stats, Tanada!
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 18:45:32

Let me get my slide rule out. 100 million rich Chinese divided by 1.4 Billion Chinese comes to a seven percent chance. Against the USA 99 million divided by 325 million population gives you a thirty percent chance. So I think I'll stick with the USA. :)
Of course both figures are totally bogus as there are only 18.6 million millionaires in the USA and 1.6 millionaires in China.
Fake news rises again.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby REAL Green » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 19:10:10

dohboi wrote:It is the over population of rich people that is the main problem, as the study I cited pointed out. None of what you opined contradicts this brutally obvious fact


I guess you have selective reading habits. I did not discount the problem with rich and the carbon budget. What I did was make a point population levels are a huge problem especially considering poor people are being enriched by development and land use is a huge issue for climate AND the ecosystem of life. Population is the elephant in the room that cannot be denied. You are discounting overpopulation as a major issue. This is a flawed position.

BTW, China is a middle income nation with a very large population of poorer people. Comparing the US and China is another flawed analysis because of this difference.

I am a proponent of degrowth and make a point that it is rich people that are the environmental problem. Rich liberals hate this especially the woke ones with TDS. They think if they vote for Biden they are green. This is nonsense. It is the way of life of the rich that has to change for green to have a chance and even then the ecosystem is beyond repair. So, climate whining is not the same as enlightened actions to mitigate the climate disaster ahead.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 7

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 21 Sep 2020, 21:05:28

REAL Green wrote:I am a proponent of degrowth and make a point that it is rich people that are the environmental problem. Rich liberals hate this especially the woke ones with TDS. They think if they vote for Biden they are green. This is nonsense. It is the way of life of the rich that has to change for green to have a chance and even then the ecosystem is beyond repair. So, climate whining is not the same as enlightened actions to mitigate the climate disaster ahead.
There is no reason a rich person could not life as green a live as any woke environmentalist. They don't have to buy the Yacht or the gulf stream private jet.
But they are not the real problem as all of them lumped together with their lifestyle amounts to a tiny sliver of what the middle class with their suburban homes and daily commutes in gas guzzling SUVs plus all their weekend toys from RVs to four wheelers with boats and snow machines in season thrown in.
The USA has 1.8 million millionaires and about 150 million middle class people striving to keep up with the Jones es and he who dies with the most toys wins.
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