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Three Gorges Dam

Re: China comes clean about the Three Gorges dams

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 22 May 2011, 00:41:13

In other words, the government says that the Chinese people can count on the same political power structures that created the problem to fix it. As long as the Communist Party retains a monopoly on power, that is the only choice they will have.

The Americans should send over the US Army Corps of Engineers to show those Commies how to manage rivers in a proper free-enterprise democratic way.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby REAL Green » Fri 24 Jul 2020, 05:57:20

I suspect many of the largest human constructions will be put to the test in the future including coastal urban development:

“China braces for impact after mass flooding at Three Gorges Dam”
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 595525864/

“According to Taiwan News, China may have experienced "displacement, seepage and deformation" of the Three Gorges Dam that spans the Yangtze River in Hubei province”
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 24 Jul 2020, 07:56:40

Yikes!

That imperils a hell of a lot of people. It also damages Chinese reputation for technical prowess, kind of like Challenger disaster for the US (but obviously many orders of magnitude more lethal, potentially).
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby dissident » Fri 24 Jul 2020, 16:28:21

REAL Green wrote:I suspect many of the largest human constructions will be put to the test in the future including coastal urban development:

“China braces for impact after mass flooding at Three Gorges Dam”
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 595525864/

“According to Taiwan News, China may have experienced "displacement, seepage and deformation" of the Three Gorges Dam that spans the Yangtze River in Hubei province”


I recall some smug Chinese official fobbing off sea level rise (and dynamics induced tidal action) as of no concern for China. Global warming ignorers and deniers are idiots.
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Re: Strange weather 2020

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 26 Jul 2020, 07:37:44

"Yangtze River's second flood passes Three Gorges Dam" (very cool photos)
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1195043.shtml

"Three Gorges Dam stable, prevents out of control flooding"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1195018.shtml

"Authorities answer to refute misunderstandings, rumors on Three Gorges Dam"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1195133.shtml

There have been many fake news reports on Western MSM and Western and Sinophobic news websites about the Three Gorges Dam being deformed, breaking, or damaged somehow. The truth is the dam is 100% intact and performing exactly as it was meant to. Thanks to the dam China is generating humongous amounts of clean, renewable energy, saving water, and controlling the floods from the recent heavy downpours. I have seen some really bad mismatched composite satellite images on Western MSM claiming to prove that the dam is deformed. High definition satellite images and the 12,000 sensors on the dam prove beyond any reasonable doubt that this is nothing more than nonsensical Western China bashing.

The Three Gorges Dam will keep generating clean, renewable energy, saving freshwater, and controlling floods for China for decades to come, and I have absolutely no doubt that all of us will die of old age and the dam will still be there.
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Re: Strange weather 2020

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 26 Jul 2020, 07:59:31

Thanks for the correction, Juan.

But Three Gorges is not a complete win-win ecologically. My brother wrote his graduate thesis on how resistance to the project was a main catalyst in creating something of a Chinese environmental movement. The flooded area not only displaced hundreds of thousands of people, it also flooded unique ecological biomes.

Also, we now know that such dams actually create huge amounts of methane because of all the biological material that decomposes in anoxic conditions.
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Re: Strange weather 2020

Unread postby JuanP » Sun 26 Jul 2020, 08:22:09

dohboi wrote:Thanks for the correction, Juan.

But Three Gorges is not a complete win-win ecologically. My brother wrote his graduate thesis on how resistance to the project was a main catalyst in creating something of a Chinese environmental movement. The flooded area not only displaced hundreds of thousands of people, it also flooded unique ecological biomes.

Also, we now know that such dams actually create huge amounts of methane because of all the biological material that decomposes in anoxic conditions.


I completely agree on that, dohboi! No large scale dam is ever a complete win-win ecologically; they all cause significant environmental damage, displace innocent people, flood natural landscapes, and disrupt the flow of water and wildlife on the rivers they dam.

I remember canoeing expeditions with my grandfather as a very young child on the river Uruguay and my excitement and anticipation when I knew we were approaching the Salto Grande (big jump) rapids. Then they built Uruguay's largest dam on that spot and ruined it for the rest of my life. I remember witnessing the construction of the dam and the damage it caused. It was heartbreaking.

But, I also know that the dam and the bridge on top of it have greatly benefitted the lives of millions of Uruguayans and Argentinians since they were built. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that my country's human population would be much worse off without them, even those who were displaced to build them. In a perfect world we would never have needed to build such atrocities, but that is not the world we live in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salto_Grande_Dam
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Re: Strange weather 2020

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 26 Jul 2020, 11:46:13

Thanks for that info about Uruguay. I'm sure there are some mega damn projects that have actually been of net benefit to the countries and the regular people in them. But generally, that has not been the case in most developing countries:

https://news.mongabay.com/2018/11/mega- ... d-experts/
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Re: Strange weather 2020

Unread postby JuanP » Mon 27 Jul 2020, 08:46:35

"Yangtze braces for third flood peak as torrential rains continue"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1195730.shtml

The heavy downpours continue on the middle and lower stretches of the Yangtze, but seem to be slowly moving North to the Yellow River watershed. These floods have tested Chinese infrastructure and inconvenienced millions of Chinese. China is 55% into its flood prevention and management infrastructure upgrade program for the Yangtze and my guess is that the lessons learnt will provide a lot of useful data on what to prioritize next. There are a lot of dikes, embankments, channels, and floodplains that still need to be built and improved. I expect it will take China 5 to 10 years to finish all the infrastructure in their Yangtze River flood management master plan.

Dohboi, if it were up to me, I would destroy all the big dams in the world, but I would reduce the human population significantly before doing that.
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Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 27 Jul 2020, 10:16:29

Well this is interesting. Following up on the 3 Gorges story I found the below bit.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/china-th ... 0174b2f728

Reading through I read a photo caption.

It seems they have blow up another dam to relieve some flood stress. No additional information given. On its face it seems a drastic measure, may have been already scheduled for demolition. Hard to imagine a good reasons to do it during a flood.
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 28 Jul 2020, 09:15:19

Chinese are insisting there is no problem with the 3 Gorges dam. Yet the install 12,000 monitoring instruments. Someone must have been concerned.

Some 12,000 instruments were installed by the end of June, covering the buildings, foundations and slopes of the project. They monitor deformation, seepage, seepage pressure, stress, strain, strong earthquakes and other situations.


http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/20200 ... 5c5d7.html
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby REAL Green » Wed 29 Jul 2020, 08:28:38

This of course would affect much more than China considering the importance of Chinese components to global value chains. This is a global danger not just a Chinese one. I do not know enough about the flooding or the dam engineering to know the validity of the claims the dam is in danger. I highlight this merely to emphasis how systematic risk has been dispersed in the world from globalism. I also highlight it as further evidence human constructions the world over are now in danger from an altered climate.

“Is China's Massive Three Gorges Dam On The Edge Of Failure?”
https://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2020/07 ... -edge.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... ge-failure

“The Three Gorges Dam is around one and a half miles long and just over 600 feet tall. About 400 million people live downstream of the dam and apparently, no plans have been made for their evacuation…The failure of this dam, which is the largest in the world, would have catastrophic consequences. It is estimated such an event could result in around half a million people being killed. The Asia Times reported several days ago that Beijing has admitted that its 2.4-kilometer Three Gorges Dam spanning the Yangtze River in Hubei province “deformed slightly” after record flooding. The deformation occurred last Saturday when waters from western provinces including Sichuan and Chongqing along the upper reaches of the Yangtze River peaked. At this, point the biggest concern is that rain continues and more is expected…The company that manages the dam noted that parts of the dam had “deformed slightly,” displacing some external structures. Seepage into the main outlet walls had also been reported throughout the 18 hours on Saturday and Sunday when water was discharged through its outlets.”
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 29 Jul 2020, 08:38:58

It’s hard to know what really is going on. Remember a couple of years ago there was fear some dam in Iraq would burst and flood? But it never happened. And also the same with some earthen dam in California.

So who knows. We will have to wait and see. It’s failure would likely have Some serious consequences. It was a huge project that took a long time and a lot of money, and they got a lot of flack for destroying areas in the flood zone.

My sense is that the dam is in danger. The question is, if it survives this event what will they, what CAN they do to reinforce it? Maybe build more dams upstream for greater flood control?
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby mousepad » Wed 29 Jul 2020, 08:53:17

Newfie wrote:It’s hard to know what really is going on. Remember a couple of years ago there was fear some dam in Iraq would burst and flood? But it never happened. And also the same with some earthen dam in California.

So who knows. We will have to wait and see. It’s failure would likely have Some serious consequences. It was a huge project that took a long time and a lot of money, and they got a lot of flack for destroying areas in the flood zone.

My sense is that the dam is in danger. The question is, if it survives this event what will they, what CAN they do to reinforce it? Maybe build more dams upstream for greater flood control?

I never understand this dam business. Can't you just open to floodgates real wide and be done with it?
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 29 Jul 2020, 09:23:17

Is China's Massive Three Gorges Dam On The Edge Of Failure?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... ge-failure

Can't you just open to floodgates real wide and be done with it?


That only works if the water is running out of the dam faster than it is running in. There is massive rains and flooding taking place in China.

The massive flooding taking place in China continues, for some reason, this story has been widely ignored by mainstream media. It is important because China's massive Three Gorges Dam is in peril. If the dam fails there will be a staggering loss of lives and property. The Three Gorges Dam is around one and a half miles long and just over 600 feet tall. About 400 million people live downstream of the dam and apparently, no plans have been made for their evacuation.


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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 29 Jul 2020, 09:58:17

About 400 million people live along the Yangste River, so, yeah, a total dam collapse would have 'some serious [f'n] consequences'...

Many Chinese warned about the dangers of building this big of a damn upstream from this many people (among other things), but they were mostly silenced, one way or another, or just ignored

And there seems to be a lot of 'silencing' of voices of warning going on around the world these days:

Record 212 land and environment activists killed last year


A record number of people were killed last year for defending their land and environment, according to research that highlights the routine murder of activists who oppose extractive industries driving the climate crisis and the destruction of nature.

More than four defenders were killed every week in 2019, according to an annual death toll compiled by the independent watchdog Global Witness, amid growing evidence of opportunistic killings during the Covid-19 lockdown in which activists were left as “sitting ducks” in their own homes...

The mining industry was linked to the most land and environmental defender deaths in 2019, according to the report, followed by agriculture, logging and criminal gangs. Indigenous communities around the world continue to face disproportionate risks of violence, making up 40% of murdered defenders last year...

“Agribusiness and oil, gas and mining have been consistently the biggest drivers of attacks against land and environmental defenders – and they are also the industries pushing us further into runaway climate change through deforestation and increasing carbon emissions,” said Rachel Cox, a campaigner at Global Witness.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -last-year
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Wed 29 Jul 2020, 10:26:12

My understanding is that the Three Gorges dam is a gravity dam. It's basically a massive structure of steel reinforced concrete - the weight of the dam due to the force of gravity counteracts the horizontal force of the water in the reservoir behind the dam. I cannot conceive of such a dam suffering a catastrophic failure, even if there is some water leakage through or under the dam. Water overflowing the dam should also be incapable of destroying the dam as concrete erodes slowly.

The Vajont dam disaster in Italy that killed almost 2000 people illustrates how robust a steel reinforced concrete dam can be. The first people to reach the dam after the disaster were astonished to find the dam completely intact. The flood was actually caused by a landslide that create a massive wave estimated to contain 50 million cubic meters of water that went over the top of the dam.

If you hear of a dam failure, it is most likely an earth fill dam. A water leak if not sealed in time can result in a catastrophic failure and so can water overflowing the dam.
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby REAL Green » Thu 30 Jul 2020, 20:14:01

yellowcanoe wrote:I cannot conceive of such a dam suffering a catastrophic failure, even if there is some water leakage through or under the dam. Water overflowing the dam should also be incapable of destroying the dam as concrete erodes slowly.


The issue might be a degraded dam system not failure. I am sure this flood will leave scares with the dam and the system that feeds it.
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Re: Three Gorges Dam

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 01 Aug 2020, 07:31:07

I would still like to know why they blew up another dam. That doesn’t sound like a “normal” measure.
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