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Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Union

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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 15 Jul 2020, 13:49:16

mousepad wrote:
Ibon wrote:A healthy nationalism is sorely needed.


I'm wondering what healthy nationalism is.
I have a feeling it's defined by what YOU think is right and wrong.
And whoever does not value things like you do is either a sellout or a racist. Could that be right?


I would say a healthy nationalism has as a prerequisite an end to the fabricated political tribalism so that the disenfranchised currently on opposite sides of the political divide can unite to demand reform. This is the last thing that vested interested on both sides would want to happen.

The loss of community in middle America as a result of globalization is on one side of the political divide. The disenfranchised inner city minority is on the other side of the political divide. You have a leader emerge that advocates healthy nationalism for both of these segments of society then you no longer have to worry about a split about what is right and what is wrong.

I have been beating around the bush for quite some time about this being a possibility, that the pendulum of tribalism and being split reaches its peak and the call for unity begins to swing back toward some sane center.

I think what might fuel this is seeing how deeply incompetent the pandemic has been managed. THere is a breaking point in society that wants to see pragmatic solutions over continued grievance baiting.

Impose tariffs to bring back economic development in rural areas.
Impose a minimum living wage for all workers
Less expensive education
Good affordable health care.

THose are examples that will resonate with increasingly disenfranchised members of both sides of the political divide.

The elite on both sides who want to protect their privilege because of an economic system that is corrupted to favor the share holder over the worker will do everything they can to stoke the fires of division to make sure these two populations currently split continue to hate each other. If a leader emerges to unite and if the society is sick and tired of being baited then we might see something interesting evolve.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby mousepad » Wed 15 Jul 2020, 14:07:01

Ibon wrote:Impose tariffs to bring back economic development in rural areas.


Everybody cried foul when trumpy wanted to impose tarifs. Makes things more expensive, they cried, and nobody wants that.

Impose a minimum living wage for all workers

That only creates inflation and encourages automation.
What about limiting the import of unskilled workers, instead? So wages can naturally trend higher, instead of needing government intervention?

Less expensive education
Good affordable health care.

Yes, I think everybody wants that. Whether dems or reps. All want good and cheap.

The elite on both sides who want to protect their privilege because of an economic system that is corrupted to favor the share holder over the worker will do everything they can to stoke the fires of division to make sure these two populations currently split continue to hate each other.

You're flirting with conspiracy now. Giving much more credit to the elites of being able to control the masses.
Society is more like blob pulled and pushed from all sides, largely uncontrollable. And me would think that the elites would prefer to foster peace than playing with the fire of hate which can quickly run out of control.

If a leader emerges to unite and if the society is sick and tired of being baited then we might see something interesting evolve.


Yes, at is has always been. Once the time is ripe and the right charismatic leader emerges, things get going. Will they be going in the right direction of a wonderfully enlightened kubaya future? Or will they be going into the abyss of persecution and hate?

How long before the locals figure they can manage the cloud forrest by themselves, without needing the "guidance" of the rich gabacho?
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 15 Jul 2020, 15:07:59

mousepad wrote:
How long before the locals figure they can manage the cloud forrest by themselves, without needing the "guidance" of the rich gabacho?


I don't know what assumptions you are making but you would need to come down here and see for yourself. Oops, no travel possible at the moment. The airports are closed!
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby suxs » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 10:24:02

It would require 20 comments to adequately describe what has happened starting mainly with Obama 2.
Real green

Oh, I see. We just need to take your word that your accusations are 100% truthful- lol. So Real Green makes excuses and gets all pissy when asked for proof to substantiate his incessant attacks and way over the top rhetoric. Asking Real Green for evidence to substantiate his nutter conspiracies is asking too much and would require too much work, according to him. The endless lies and hypocrisy are unbelievable. What a terrible state of affairs and he needs to be called out for posting straight-out crap.

Real Green wouldn't know the truth if it slapped him in the face.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 10:40:48

mousepad wrote:
Ibon wrote:
Impose a minimum living wage for all workers

That only creates inflation and encourages automation.
What about limiting the import of unskilled workers, instead? So wages can naturally trend higher, instead of needing government intervention?



I mentioned enlightened nationalism. That would be when we slow down the importation of unskilled workers but doing this in a way that does not incite racism. And the only caveat is that you really do have to find workers in the US who will be willing to do some of this work at productive rates.

When a government prioritizes share holder value over community resiliency they will incentivize automation and globalization. When a government promotes enlightened nationalism you can regulate industry with tarrifs, minimum livable wage and tax the hell out of automation to prevent it from replacing livelyhoods. Do I sound like a luddite?

Wages will never naturally trend higher on the lowest socio economic ladder. Historically, improvements on wages, work week, work safety, social security, where all battles that had to be fought and won against a strong business elite. Haven't we seen the total failure of the invisible hand of the market that is supposed to correct inequities?

For those of you who are ardent anti government ideologies there is a failure to recognize a solution of regulated capitalism that balances the focus on both the share holder and community resiliency.

Many anti government ideologues also close their eyes to government corporate welfare, public subsidies to industry, the power of corporate lobbyists but then claim socialism when laws and policies try to address social inequities.

There is a pragmatic middle here that is sadly non existent when you have a system that creates a fake tribalism that all too many so willingly ingest.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 11:22:09

Ibon wrote: And the only caveat is that you really do have to find workers in the US who will be willing to do some of this work at productive rates. Wages will never naturally trend higher on the lowest socio economic ladder.


I think you are mistaken. Everybody tries to get the most money for the least amount of work. That's true for american as well as mexicans. Many americans have options. Generous gov handouts, easier jobs, more lucrative jobs, subsidized education, retraining, etc, etc. Illegal mexicans don't have that option. They are stuck at the farm doing the hard work.

In my liberal BS state a few years back some lefty do-gooders shockingly found out that the local farms have illegal mexicans employed.
So shocked they were that they bullied the state into giving the illegals more rights, including work permits and drivers licenses. What happened? Zippedy-do, the mexicans were gone taking easier jobs in town waiting in restaurants and such.
The farm was left without workers and had to get another truck load of fresh illegals.

What if fresh illegals were not available? The farm would have no other choice than to raise pay. Up to the point to make the jobs attractive enough for americans. Of course that would increase price of food, but I would think that's a good thing. Food is too cheap and much is wasted. A higher food price makes people appreciate it more, encourages gardens, encourages conservation.

And I think this is true for many industries. We currently have a situation where every dumb-whit and his sister try to get in to collage to have a good paying job. But what if lower skill jobs pay a decent salary? I think that would be great, because not everybody is made for college.

Another idea: There are many bored senior citizen.
Why not allow them to work for less than minimum wage? Forcing a minimum wage naturally results in employers choosing the young and fit workers. But why not give the 70 or 80 year old a chance? He will work at half speed, but that doesn't matter. He get's less pay.
That would foster community, reduce loneliness of the elderly and help businesses.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 11:30:53

mousepad wrote:Everybody tries to get the most money for the least amount of work.


Yep. My father grew up on a farm. His dad sold it off in 1953 because neither my dad or any of his 5 siblings wanted to run the farm and my dad's main comment in this respect was the toil and hard labor. This was a Mennonite family who did not use any real automation except tractor and a truck but they had to paint all the chrome black since this was considered worldly. For this reason they were referred to as Black Bumper Mennonites!

I kind of bucked the trend and after 20 years in corporate business and being a business owner I pulled the plug and came here to Panama where we now daily do a lot of physical labor for just treading water economically. I could have easily stayed in the world of commerce and squirreled away an additional couple of million. Regrets? None!

What you posted and my point are not mutually exclusive. You can keep the incentives that allow folks to progress but set minimums to guarantee a living wage. Come on, this is not some pipe dream.

WHen I lived in Europe the cleaning lady who came into the company earned 30,000 US$ a year with full health care coverage. The CEO earned $ 750,000. Look at that spread. That is typical in Europe. Compare that to the US where the spread is $8 an hour with no health care and the CEO earning $ 300 million.

DO you guys really think the CEO is incentivized by those wages?

My experience is that business leaders are driven by competition, power and status. The exact amount they earn is not what incentivizes them. THe US could regulate wages through setting living minimal wages and increase taxes on the wealthy and this would not effect to any degree the productivity of those business leaders who are captains of industry. After the first 10 million the money is not what incentivizes. It is power and status and there are other ways besides earning obscene amounts that this can be realized. Especially in policies that promote community resiliency with share holder value these captains of industry can get incentivized by what the contribute to their communities. This increases status as much as earning $ 200 million. BUt that only happens when a society goes through a shift of values where civic duty and strengthening the commons is praised as virtue. Being recognized as virtuous can increase status more than earning $ 300 million but this is only possible in a culture and society that values this.

It works in other industrialized countries. What is wrong with the USA in this regard?
Last edited by Ibon on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 11:52:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 11:50:47

Ibon wrote: THe US could regulate wages


I think regulating wages is too heavy handed, and that is true for setting a min wage for workers, as well as a max wage for ceo.
I think the state should set the underlying playing field and game rules such, that a reasonable min wage is payed automatically by market force.

For minimum wages it's easy, limit the number of unskilled workers on the job market.
For executive it's a bit more tricky. I would like to entertain the idea of limiting the size of companies, disallowing holding companies, greatly limiting globalization and other measures.

All those measures would no doubt reduce the standard of living, but I believe it will increase the QUALITY of life and make society much more fair. A noble goal in my opinion.

It works in other industrialized countries. What is wrong with the USA in this regard?

It doesn't really work in other countries. The divide between poor and rich is getting ever bigger all over europe, too. It just isnt't as bad as in the US, yet.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 12:10:36

mousepad wrote: that a reasonable min wage is payed automatically by market force.

.


Paid automatically? Again you have completely embraced the myth of the invisible hand that solves all market irregularities.

THere is a balance between unregulated and regulated capitalism. There is a place where pragmatic regulations over rule ideology.

You seem well indoctrinated in a myth. See below.

By the way, when it comes to addressing social inequities at the bottom of the socio economic ladder we often hear about this invisible hand of the market that automatically fixes market irregularites but when it comes to big corporations, bailing out banks, subsidies and the power of corporate lobbyists why is there total silence then about the invisible hand?

https://hbr.org/2012/04/there-is-no-invisible-hand

The failure to model the invisible hand is ironically powerful. Any given economic model might well be implausible. But if the brightest economic minds failed for a century to show how some invisible hand could move markets toward equilibrium, can any such mechanism exist? Something outside markets — social norms, economic regulation, Ben Bernanke in his happier moments — must usually avert disaster.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby mousepad » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 12:33:03

Ibon wrote:THere is a balance between unregulated and regulated capitalism. There is a place where pragmatic regulations over rule ideology.

Yes, regulate the playing field and the game rules of the ball game. Don't regulate where the individual players need to run to.

You seem well indoctrinated in a myth. See below.

You're better than that, aren't you?
If it conflicts with your view it's either indoctrinated or racist. Come on.

And if you read my post you will notices that I'm very much into regulating stuff, just not the way you want to regulate.
And if you didn't read my post, then take the time and go back and read them instead of posting blanket BS statement about
invisible hand that don't apply to what I'm advocating.

How is my proposal to to limit a company sizes indoctrinated by invisible hand?

A bit more humility and a bit less arrogance would do you good.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 16 Jul 2020, 13:28:14

mousepad wrote:
Ibon wrote:THere is a balance between unregulated and regulated capitalism. There is a place where pragmatic regulations over rule ideology.

Yes, regulate the playing field and the game rules of the ball game. Don't regulate where the individual players need to run to.


Baseball is a good analogy. There are base lines, strike zones and out of bound foul balls. Those boundaries can define minimum wage for example and then as you say individual players can prove their merit from there.

mousepad wrote:
Ibon wrote:You seem well indoctrinated in a myth. See below.

You're better than that, aren't you?


You are right about minimizing the size of corporations. Too big to fail for example was ruinous during the 2008 financial crisis. There was only one comment you made when you specifically used the word "automatic" by market forces. That is what made me draw the reference to the invisible hand of Adam Smith. Sorry if it sounded like I was making a whole sale judgement. That was not my intention. We can learn a lot from feedback from others. You might want to consider a bit more where the fine line is between regulating and deregulation. In terms of the past 40 years of market forces deregulation in general has been devastating to the middle class and poor but unbelievably rewarding to the uber rich in the USA.

To suggest more of a balanced approach is I think in order.

If you met me face to face I think you would probably find me quite humble actually. I am a pretty nice guy at least that is the feedback I get from most folks. I bet you are a pretty nice person also.

I hope our dialogue has been instructive.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby careinke » Fri 17 Jul 2020, 04:34:33

Interesting dialog, I'd like to add some inputs and ask for some clarifications.

Taxing the hell out of robots: I agree and would add AI. I think it essential that we do this as probably 40% of the jobs are going away in the next three years. I'm not sure about the best way to do that and would appreciate Ibon's and other opinions on this. The best solution I can find that would be reliable and hard to circumvent is Andrew Yang's proposal of a VAT. Amazon would be collecting way more taxes than they pay now.

Fixing wealth disparity in companiesI acknowledge that raising the minimum wage, taxing the rich, and preventing foreign workers could have some merit. I have some alternative solutions to consider.

1. Require corporations to limit compensation of the highest paid member to thirty times the lowest paid employee. The CEO wants to make more money, he has to drag his employees along. You could make it even harsher by making board members count all of their compensation from other boards when calculating the highest compensated member. This would effectively limit a person to only being on one companies board opening up a lot more CEO positions.

2. Give every American a UBI of twice the poverty level ($2,500/Month). Use that robot tax to pay for it. Make it a no strings attached payment regardless of income and the ability to spend it on whatever the citizen wants. If no one is poor, we can eliminate a myriad of social programs and their associated costs.

Well that's a good start.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 17 Jul 2020, 09:17:57

careinke wrote:Interesting dialog, I'd like to add some inputs and ask for some clarifications.

Taxing the hell out of robots: I agree and would add AI. I think it essential that we do this as probably 40% of the jobs are going away in the next three years. I'm not sure about the best way to do that and would appreciate Ibon's and other opinions on this. The best solution I can find that would be reliable and hard to circumvent is Andrew Yang's proposal of a VAT. Amazon would be collecting way more taxes than they pay now.


Many countries use VAT as revenue generation to pay for social services. It could significantly contribute to providing reduced or free education for example. The rate varies from 7% or 10% here in Panama depending on the category to as high 27% is some nordic countries. A criticism is that it is regressive and puts more hardship on the poor. The way you handle this is make VAT exemptions for the essentials like food, drugs. Some possibilities

1) Basic foods that are unprocessed are exempt from VAT. Processed foods are VAT taxed
2) Some products Made in America are either exempt or the VAT is reduced.
3) Imported goods have the highest VAT tax
4) Agricultural machines, fertilizers, products are VAT exempt.
5) Renewable energy is VAT exempt.

Another benefit is for the individual self employed to offer his services VAT free. In rural areas for example locals can barter or exchange goods and services independent of purchasing from larger businesses. They can circumvent the VAT system which sounds like fraud but in fact encourages individual self resiliency. You know why I mention all this? I have many years experience here in Panama with VAT. Here are some personal experiences being in a rural agricultural area:

When I go to town to a store every item I purchase is invoiced with a VAT designation. Food grown domestically is 0%. Imported food is 7%. Alcohol is 10%. Agro chemicals for our coffee farm are 0%. Imported goods are either 7% or 10% depending. Services like car mechanics and repair shops are 7%

Now here is where it is interesting. All large stores and businesses comply with VAT. It is strictly regulated. Every transaction has to have an official fiscal invoice that shows the VAT. Now say Careinke grows some excess food on his permaculture operation or decides to offer his services to a neighbor to set up their drip irrigation system. As an individual you can make an informal agreement with another individual and save them the VAT expense by going outside the system. WE do this all the time here in Panama. Everybody does. This is a way that local self employed small time entrepreneurs can benefit. It does not really cut into VAT revenue that much because this is small nickel and dime part of the economy but it surely helps the small guy and it encourages self reliance. You can actually regulate this legally by self employed and small companies up to x number of employees offer their services at zero VAT or at a reduced rate. VAT is a great way for a country to generate revenue and you can tweak it with the examples above so it does not hurt the poor.

Require corporations to limit compensation of the highest paid member to thirty times the lowest paid employee. The CEO wants to make more money, he has to drag his employees along.


A rising sea floats all boats. You set a minimum living wage. You cap highest income as you suggest. Beyond that earnings and profits get shared but still merit based on productivity and skills. You have to keep the compensation so that you reward hard work and higher skills disproportionate to lower skilled workers. And it should be exponential still. You want to keep the engines of capitalism that rewards hard work and success with higher pay but regulate it to be more on a scale like you see in Europe.

2. Give every American a UBI of twice the poverty level ($2,500/Month). Use that robot tax to pay for it. Make it a no strings attached payment regardless of income and the ability to spend it on whatever the citizen wants. If no one is poor, we can eliminate a myriad of social programs and their associated costs.


Yes. The social cost of chronic poverty; crime, incarceration, policing, managing pandemics !!!, health care, etc. etc. would be offset by a UBI. This is the positive. The criticism is that it will spawn inflation and that all goods and services will inflate to the point the poor are right back where they started in what their UBI can actually buy them. I think UBI would work but it would need to be regulated.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby JuanP » Fri 17 Jul 2020, 15:00:28

Ibon, the system you described is very similar to Uruguay's. We have 2 VAT rates, the regular one is 22% and the discounted one is 10%, and there are also import taxes. Food and medicine, and medical and dental services and supplies, and a few other categories considered essential needs are taxed at the lower rates. Most consumer items and services are taxed at the higher rate, including all entertainment and luxury. Gold, silver, platinum, palladium, agricultural equipment, school supplies, tourism services for Uruguayan citizens, and water for residential and agricultural use are VAT exempt. Poor people can claim VAT refunds up to certain amounts on some categories. The system has been working fine for many decades.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby REAL Green » Sat 18 Jul 2020, 06:13:41

A great view of the extremist left and their tools of the trade:

“Narcissists, Psychopaths, & Manipulators Are More Likely To Engage In "Virtuous Victim Signaling", Study Finds”
https://reason.com/2020/07/07/narcissis ... ays-study/
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/narci ... ling-study

“So: Here's some fun new research looking at "the consequences and predictors of emitting signals of victimhood and virtue," published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. The paper—from University of British Columbia researchers Ekin Ok, Yi Qian, Brendan Strejcek, and Karl Aquino—details multiple studies the authors conducted on the subject. Their conclusion? Psychopathic, manipulative, and narcissistic people are more frequent signalers of "virtuous victimhood." The so-called "dark triad" personality traits - Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy - lead to characteristics like "self-promotion, emotional callousness, duplicity, and tendency to take advantage of others," the paper explains. And "treated as a composite, the Dark Triad traits were significant predictors of virtuous victim signaling." This held true "even when controlling for factors that may make people vulnerable to being mistreated or disadvantaged in society (i.e., demographic and socioeconomic characteristics) as well as the importance they place on being a virtuous individual as part of their self-concept," the researchers note. They point out that virtue signaling is defined as "the conspicuous expression of moral values, done primarily with the intent of enhancing one's standing within a social group…"a perceived victim signal can lead others to transfer resources to a victim, but that the motivation to do so is amplified when the victim signal is paired with a virtue signal" and "people high in the Dark Triad traits emit the dual signal more frequently." "a positive correlation between the Dark Triad scores and the frequency of emitting the virtuous victim signal." "evidence of how these signals … can predict a person's willingness to engage in and endorse ethically questionable behaviors …. frequent virtuous victim signalers are more willing to purchase counterfeit products and judge counterfeiters as less immoral compared with less frequent signalers, a pattern that was also observed when using participants' Dark Triad scores instead of their signaling score," and "frequent virtuous victim signalers were more likely to cheat and lie to earn extra monetary reward in [a] coin flip game." "that a dimension referred to as amoral manipulation was the most reliable predictor of virtuous victim signaling." "frequent virtuous victim signalers were more likely to make inflated claims to justify receiving restitution for an alleged and ambiguous norm violation in an organizational context."
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 18 Jul 2020, 10:09:36

I can't help but sometimes reflect on the flow of dialogue here. A number of posts where we focus and explore some solutions and then we fall back to ranting and raving about the other tribe.

It's worth contemplating where one really sits as a set of priorities. Do you feed the tribalism or do you turn toward negotiating constructive solutions and looking for common ground?

THere definitely is Trump derangement Syndrome, and there definitely is the derangement of seeing the left as unhinged. They mirror each other. And they result in a blindness.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby REAL Green » Sat 18 Jul 2020, 10:37:49

Ibon wrote:It's worth contemplating where one really sits as a set of priorities. Do you feed the tribalism or do you turn toward negotiating constructive solutions and looking for common ground?


The only constructive solutions are local with the individual. The top is lost IMO. If I talk about the top it is academic and for enjoyment. My desire is for a new Democratic party minus the ident wokism and (extreme) socialism platforms. I feel the democratic party has been ruined. If it appears I don't go after conservatives this is becuase there really are none here. I get labeled as one becuase I dare call into question the shit that is taking place these days with the left.
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby REAL Green » Sun 19 Jul 2020, 06:40:35

“Cancel Culture,” Race and the Greed of the Billionaire Class”
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/07 ... class.html

“these fights over speech are occurring when the super rich are getting even richer (particularly that bastion of white men, private equity) and no more diverse. And as Tom points out, there’s similarly lots of virtue signaling from companies but not much change regarding the composition of the executive ranks. The elites will discuss race. They will not discuss class. —Chris Hedges…The cancel culture — the phenomenon of removing or canceling people, brands or shows from the public domain because of offensive statements or ideologies — is not a threat to the ruling class. Hundreds of corporations, nearly all in the hands of white executives and white board members, enthusiastically pumped out messages on social media condemning racism and demanding justice…where only 4 percent of the top executives are Black. Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world whose corporation, Amazon, paid no federal income taxes last year and who fires workers that attempt to unionize and tracks warehouse laborers as if they were prisoners, put a “Black Lives Matter” banner on Amazon’s home page…The rush by the ruling elites to profess solidarity with the protestors and denounce racist rhetoric and racist symbols, supporting the toppling of Confederate statues and banning the Confederate flag, are symbolic assaults on white supremacy. Alone, these gestures will do nothing to reverse the institutional racism that is baked into the DNA of American society. The elites will discuss race. They will not discuss class…while we’re squabbling over the latest cancellation outrage — many are indeed that, outrageous, while many are not — America is being rebuilt as we speak into an even greater monopolythan before, with even more wealth going to the even more powerful. As one wag put it, Jeff Bezos is having a very good crisis. Companies large enough to survive this event are flush with cash and gobbling failed competitors hand over fist. It’s been rightly said that when Covid has done its work, we won’t recognize the country it left behind.”
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby REAL Green » Sun 02 Aug 2020, 06:20:12

“CIA Fabricated Russiagate "Evidence", Says Former NSA Tech Chief”
https://theduran.com/cia-fabricated-rus ... ech-chief/
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cia ... tech-chief

“An important public statement was made on July 27th by Bill Binney, the U.S. Government’s top expert on the internet, and on computer hacking. He had been the Technical Director of the NSA when he quit and became a whistleblower against that Agency while George W. Bush was the U.S. President and invaded Iraq on the basis of faked evidence. Binney has now laid out, in this speech, the evidence that he wants to present in court against Barack Obama’s CIA, that it defrauded Americans to believe in “Russiagate” (the allegation that Russia ‘hacked’ the computers of Hillary Clinton and Democratic Party officials and fed that information to Wikileaks and other organizations). Binney cites evidence, which, if true, conclusively proves that Russiagate was actually created fraudulently by the CIA’s extensive evidence-tampering, which subsequently became covered-up by the Special Counsel Robert Mueller, in his investigations for the Democratic Party’s first (and failed) try at impeaching and removing from office U.S. President Donald J. Trump. Here is the transcript of his 10-minute speech (and I add links to explanations of the meaning of technical phrases, and also boldface for emphasis of his key findings, and I place into [brackets] explanatory amplifications of my own), summarizing why he is convinced that the CIA (under President Barack Obama) did this frame-up against Russia, ‘Russiagate’ — it’s a case that he is seeking to present to Congress, and in court, and to debate in public, instead of to continue to be hidden from the public; he wants to show, and publicly to debate, this evidence, so that the public will be able to see it, and evaluate it, for themselves… Binney wants to present this case at trial, against the CIA’s top officials under President Barack Obama.”
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Re: Pat Buchanan: America in worst decline since Soviet Unio

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 02 Aug 2020, 07:05:52

So who will rule a superrpower in coming 4 years:

1. Narcissistic sociopath?
2. Old man with dementia?
3. Twitter (after banning #1 from posting and closing down his account)?

That is how collapse in practice looks like.
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