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The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby evilgenius » Mon 27 Jan 2020, 18:26:39

rockdoc123 wrote:
How about Boeing? That CEO just got canned, after the fact. You wanted an example. That's just a very public one. Since the 737 Max crisis hit the company, I've seen several employees interviewed who tried to tell somebody about something wrong with the plane.


Suffering some cognitive dissonance are we? You were complaining that the owners of corporations were taking money and enriching themselves at the expense of workers. Did the CEO of Boeing get enriched? No, in fact, he lost his job because the Board got fed up with the lack of delivery on promises to fix the issues. Did employees lose money? No. They were paid precisely what their employment contracts entailed. Issues happen in manufacturing and what happened with Boeing is exactly how it should be handled. Try to figure out the problem as soon as possible and fix it. If the guy you put in charge isn’t up to the task put someone else in there. Honestly, you approach this as if it is some kind of conspiracy happening.

Or, again, I recently read a story about how a major car company in the US had allowed SUV's to roll off of the assembly line with too many defects.


Again nothing to do with what you were claiming. How did this benefit the owners or management? In fact if the Board of that company were to find this out (and I think it is BS as you can't hide that sort of thing...ie. recalls) they would have had heads roll. That is the way it works.

These examples are nothing, compared to all of those companies which rely upon things in society to keep their underpaid employees working for them. Yes, things which they, or those like minded to them, have lobbied for over the decades. The sort of things exemplified in single issue politics.


Perhaps you should try English? What "things in society".....what "like minded" individuals lobbied for what? And wtf does single issue politics have to do with corporations and they way they are run?

You ought to try reading comprehension as well. You don't ask the right questions, just those which further your point of view. The model you are using may be too restrictive.

No, no, no that's me saying that "returning value to shareholders" is not necessarily in favor of shareholders, when taken as a whole. Citing labor is only a means to get at a relationship which should exist between ownership and those who work for them. Out of that relationship, checks and balances would develop. Likewise, bad management wrought at the behest of a dominant view regarding control of a corporation escapes our attention. Those examples are, therefore, relevant.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 27 Jan 2020, 18:40:10

Citing labor is only a means to get at a relationship which should exist between ownership and those who work for them. Out of that relationship, checks and balances would develop. Those examples are, therefore, relevant.


Horseshit. Pure socialist BS. The relationship that exists between owners and employees has been one established over hundreds of years and has worked well over that time. As an owner you are entitled to compensate your employees what the market will bear in order to receive a contractual amount of labor. The market is determined by competition in the market for those services. Most jurisdictions have regulations over minimums and some over requirements for health care etc. The contract whether written or implied is an understanding of what is being paid along with what is required to be provided work-wise. If you aren't happy with the deal as an employee you can quit, it is that simple. Nobody is making you work under duress which is opposite to what you will find in a socialist system. The deal as employee does not give you the right to make decisions for the company, it does not give you the right to determine what contracted work you might decide is beneath you nor does it give you the right to determine a companies business plan, none of that comes with your compensation. You have a right to refuse work if it entails something that affects your immediate safety or other workers around you. If you want more say in what a company does then become a shareholder. And, once again, if you don't like the deal or the work you have to do or what you perceive your owners to be doing then quit, that is indeed your right.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby evilgenius » Mon 27 Jan 2020, 18:52:31

rockdoc123 wrote:
Citing labor is only a means to get at a relationship which should exist between ownership and those who work for them. Out of that relationship, checks and balances would develop. Those examples are, therefore, relevant.


Horseshit. Pure socialist BS. The relationship that exists between owners and employees has been one established over hundreds of years and has worked well over that time. As an owner you are entitled to compensate your employees what the market will bear in order to receive a contractual amount of labor. The market is determined by competition in the market for those services. Most jurisdictions have regulations over minimums and some over requirements for health care etc. The contract whether written or implied is an understanding of what is being paid along with what is required to be provided work-wise. If you aren't happy with the deal as an employee you can quit, it is that simple. Nobody is making you work under duress which is opposite to what you will find in a socialist system. The deal as employee does not give you the right to make decisions for the company, it does not give you the right to determine what contracted work you might decide is beneath you nor does it give you the right to determine a companies business plan, none of that comes with your compensation. You have a right to refuse work if it entails something that affects your immediate safety or other workers around you. If you want more say in what a company does then become a shareholder. And, once again, if you don't like the deal or the work you have to do or what you perceive your owners to be doing then quit, that is indeed your right.

Uh, huh. You still don't see it.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 29 Jan 2020, 18:38:06

https://www.globalresearch.ca/debt-agai ... le/5702229

the USA alone, 300 million Americans carry a national debt of more than 23 trillion dollars, which were minted in the name of our nation and then turned over to private financial sources. Then we borrowed it from them without asking how they hell they got our money and now were loaning it to us to spend on the military industrial complex a republican president warned against many years ago. We also financed the creation of billionaires who collect interest on that debt by claiming that it’s our responsibility to pay, and lose, and theirs to collect, and profit.

Our personal consumer debt is more than 13 trillion dollars, which we need to buy all the stuff that keeps us alive and lots more that we need the way a forest needs a fire. More than a trillion of that is for the plastic we use to survive and occasionally eat steak or salmon on a budget that might be able to afford us taco-pizza-burgers if we had to pay cash. More than 9 trillion covers our mortgage debt so we can make believe we are “home owners”, until such time as the bank decides we aren’t paying fast enough and we’re reduced to being renters, if we can find apartments, or being homeless. Another trillion plus each for student and auto loans so we can be taught that this system makes sense as long as we keep driving to the mall, the school, the ministry and the poorhouse by simultaneously polluting our personal lives and social environment.

What was once called a sea of debt on which we floated has become an ocean of debt into which we are sinking, and still our ruling minority programs us to ask “where can we get the money to fund health care and education” as though we all had doctoral degrees from the London School of Economics and were well trained in scratching our butts and picking our noses with the same finger while rationalizing economic insanity. Stop spending it on weapons, drugs, waste and garbage and redirect it to what humans need most: shelter, food, clothing, health care, and other stuff like that. Duh?

The incredible amount of debt – imaginary, make believe wealth – which global capitalism treats as a systemic foundation now threatens to structurally collapse. That is not just a problem for the 1% or smaller percentile that still exercises power over space, time and life itself. The last collapse a few years ago reduced millions of former homeowners and jobholders to a struggle for survival that has not ended for most of them, and they’ve been joined in a supposed recovery – for capital! – that finds more people working for less pay and less people enjoying the fruits of their labor. No different than what began with industrial capitalism back in the 19th century when people who previously lived off the land, or tried to, were herded into cities and factories and mills to create wealth, some of which trickled down to them but mostly defied nature and gravity by flowing up to the ruling powers whose wealth was beyond that of previous feudal lords.

Now, global capital has created a tiny minority of wealthy people who make the feudal lords seem almost a New York rush hour crowd by comparison. As few as three multi-billionaire Americans have as much combined wealth as 150 million Americans, all of those expected to dutifully troop off to the polls and vote for continuing the system that is moving much closer to a financial breakdown, with more pain and suffering for more Americans and the rest of the world than the last collapse caused. Using public funds to bail out private wealth temporarily saved that one and the public good be damned. That cannot be allowed to happen again, and uprisings all over the world are taking place because more people can’t take it any more. They feel the pain and see the handwriting on the wall, which may still be beyond those of us who can only use our smart phones to get dumb news which tells us nothing but what consciousness control pays its media to cram into our heads.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby careinke » Wed 29 Jan 2020, 20:35:09

onlooker wrote:https://www.globalresearch.ca/debt-against-people/5702229

the USA alone, 300 million Americans carry a national debt of more than 23 trillion dollars, which were minted in the name of our nation and then turned over to private financial sources. Then we borrowed it from them without asking how they hell they got our money and now were loaning it to us to spend on the military industrial complex a republican president warned against many years ago. We also financed the creation of billionaires who collect interest on that debt by claiming that it’s our responsibility to pay, and lose, and theirs to collect, and profit.

Our personal consumer debt is more than 13 trillion dollars, which we need to buy all the stuff that keeps us alive and lots more that we need the way a forest needs a fire. More than a trillion of that is for the plastic we use to survive and occasionally eat steak or salmon on a budget that might be able to afford us taco-pizza-burgers if we had to pay cash. More than 9 trillion covers our mortgage debt so we can make believe we are “home owners”, until such time as the bank decides we aren’t paying fast enough and we’re reduced to being renters, if we can find apartments, or being homeless. Another trillion plus each for student and auto loans so we can be taught that this system makes sense as long as we keep driving to the mall, the school, the ministry and the poorhouse by simultaneously polluting our personal lives and social environment.

What was once called a sea of debt on which we floated has become an ocean of debt into which we are sinking, and still our ruling minority programs us to ask “where can we get the money to fund health care and education” as though we all had doctoral degrees from the London School of Economics and were well trained in scratching our butts and picking our noses with the same finger while rationalizing economic insanity. Stop spending it on weapons, drugs, waste and garbage and redirect it to what humans need most: shelter, food, clothing, health care, and other stuff like that. Duh?

The incredible amount of debt – imaginary, make believe wealth – which global capitalism treats as a systemic foundation now threatens to structurally collapse. That is not just a problem for the 1% or smaller percentile that still exercises power over space, time and life itself. The last collapse a few years ago reduced millions of former homeowners and jobholders to a struggle for survival that has not ended for most of them, and they’ve been joined in a supposed recovery – for capital! – that finds more people working for less pay and less people enjoying the fruits of their labor. No different than what began with industrial capitalism back in the 19th century when people who previously lived off the land, or tried to, were herded into cities and factories and mills to create wealth, some of which trickled down to them but mostly defied nature and gravity by flowing up to the ruling powers whose wealth was beyond that of previous feudal lords.

Now, global capital has created a tiny minority of wealthy people who make the feudal lords seem almost a New York rush hour crowd by comparison. As few as three multi-billionaire Americans have as much combined wealth as 150 million Americans, all of those expected to dutifully troop off to the polls and vote for continuing the system that is moving much closer to a financial breakdown, with more pain and suffering for more Americans and the rest of the world than the last collapse caused. Using public funds to bail out private wealth temporarily saved that one and the public good be damned. That cannot be allowed to happen again, and uprisings all over the world are taking place because more people can’t take it any more. They feel the pain and see the handwriting on the wall, which may still be beyond those of us who can only use our smart phones to get dumb news which tells us nothing but what consciousness control pays its media to cram into our heads.

So, what were YOUR thoughts on this????
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 29 Jan 2020, 21:02:55

careinke wrote:
onlooker wrote:https://www.globalresearch.ca/debt-against-people/5702229

the USA alone, 300 million Americans carry a national debt of more than 23 trillion dollars, which were minted in the name of our nation and then turned over to private financial sources. Then we borrowed it from them without asking how they hell they got our money and now were loaning it to us to spend on the military industrial complex a republican president warned against many years ago. We also financed the creation of billionaires who collect interest on that debt by claiming that it’s our responsibility to pay, and lose, and theirs to collect, and profit.

Our personal consumer debt is more than 13 trillion dollars, which we need to buy all the stuff that keeps us alive and lots more that we need the way a forest needs a fire. More than a trillion of that is for the plastic we use to survive and occasionally eat steak or salmon on a budget that might be able to afford us taco-pizza-burgers if we had to pay cash. More than 9 trillion covers our mortgage debt so we can make believe we are “home owners”, until such time as the bank decides we aren’t paying fast enough and we’re reduced to being renters, if we can find apartments, or being homeless. Another trillion plus each for student and auto loans so we can be taught that this system makes sense as long as we keep driving to the mall, the school, the ministry and the poorhouse by simultaneously polluting our personal lives and social environment.

What was once called a sea of debt on which we floated has become an ocean of debt into which we are sinking, and still our ruling minority programs us to ask “where can we get the money to fund health care and education” as though we all had doctoral degrees from the London School of Economics and were well trained in scratching our butts and picking our noses with the same finger while rationalizing economic insanity. Stop spending it on weapons, drugs, waste and garbage and redirect it to what humans need most: shelter, food, clothing, health care, and other stuff like that. Duh?

The incredible amount of debt – imaginary, make believe wealth – which global capitalism treats as a systemic foundation now threatens to structurally collapse. That is not just a problem for the 1% or smaller percentile that still exercises power over space, time and life itself. The last collapse a few years ago reduced millions of former homeowners and jobholders to a struggle for survival that has not ended for most of them, and they’ve been joined in a supposed recovery – for capital! – that finds more people working for less pay and less people enjoying the fruits of their labor. No different than what began with industrial capitalism back in the 19th century when people who previously lived off the land, or tried to, were herded into cities and factories and mills to create wealth, some of which trickled down to them but mostly defied nature and gravity by flowing up to the ruling powers whose wealth was beyond that of previous feudal lords.

Now, global capital has created a tiny minority of wealthy people who make the feudal lords seem almost a New York rush hour crowd by comparison. As few as three multi-billionaire Americans have as much combined wealth as 150 million Americans, all of those expected to dutifully troop off to the polls and vote for continuing the system that is moving much closer to a financial breakdown, with more pain and suffering for more Americans and the rest of the world than the last collapse caused. Using public funds to bail out private wealth temporarily saved that one and the public good be damned. That cannot be allowed to happen again, and uprisings all over the world are taking place because more people can’t take it any more. They feel the pain and see the handwriting on the wall, which may still be beyond those of us who can only use our smart phones to get dumb news which tells us nothing but what consciousness control pays its media to cram into our heads.

So, what were YOUR thoughts on this????

That this is the inevitable result of Capitalism. As they say the rich get richer and the poor poorer
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 30 Jan 2020, 07:21:21

Simply saying “it Capitalisim” is a gross oversimplification and seems to lay it on some undefined “they” or TPTB. One needs to ask “What was it like before? And “Who are these Capitalist?”.

Historically civilizations have gone through boom bust cycles, or from development into decay. So what we are seeing is not something he’s or unknown in history. Humans are pretty gullible and at a IOU’s critters. We are opportunistic feeders and that trait can be manipulated by others to aggregate wealth. When the “true” wealth runs out then the innovators find ways to keep the cycle burning until flame out and crash.

What is different this time is the international scale of the problem. There is no unaffected economy which can stabilize things. There are very few places that have even a marginally sustainable economy so a crash in the global markets will hit everyone. Even the pops because they rely upon grain transfers for survival.

Another way to look at it is to ask “What is that money in the market? What is it made of?” And the answer is that it is nothing tangible, not gold, silver, or oil; nor is it mining operations and manufacturing plants. For the most part it is debt, a promise to of future performance. For those of us of a certain age it is summed up by the famous line “I’ll gladly give you a dollar tomorrow for a hamburger today.” LOL.

So all that “money” or “debt” is simply a promise, or better yet, a bet that tomorrow I’ll have more money than today based on the fact that in past times we were able to make it work.

And in past time we were able to make it work because there were exploitable resources that were relatively easy to extract and manual labor was sufficiently necessary and rare to be valuable.

ALL of that is set to change. The vast pool of humanity is no longer of any great value in extracting the resources. In fact they are becoming a drag on the ever more difficult to reach resources because they are competing with the extraction process by needing clean water and arable land. And the populations promise to repay the debt is being made al the more hollow by AI.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 30 Jan 2020, 12:25:44

Newfie wrote:Simply saying “it Capitalisim” is a gross oversimplification and seems to lay it on some undefined “they” or TPTB. One needs to ask “What was it like before? And “Who are these Capitalist?”.

Historically civilizations have gone through boom bust cycles, or from development into decay. So what we are seeing is not something he’s or unknown in history. Humans are pretty gullible and at a IOU’s critters. We are opportunistic feeders and that trait can be manipulated by others to aggregate wealth. When the “true” wealth runs out then the innovators find ways to keep the cycle burning until flame out and crash.

What is different this time is the international scale of the problem. There is no unaffected economy which can stabilize things. There are very few places that have even a marginally sustainable economy so a crash in the global markets will hit everyone. Even the pops because they rely upon grain transfers for survival.

Another way to look at it is to ask “What is that money in the market? What is it made of?” And the answer is that it is nothing tangible, not gold, silver, or oil; nor is it mining operations and manufacturing plants. For the most part it is debt, a promise to of future performance. For those of us of a certain age it is summed up by the famous line “I’ll gladly give you a dollar tomorrow for a hamburger today.” LOL.

So all that “money” or “debt” is simply a promise, or better yet, a bet that tomorrow I’ll have more money than today based on the fact that in past times we were able to make it work.

And in past time we were able to make it work because there were exploitable resources that were relatively easy to extract and manual labor was sufficiently necessary and rare to be valuable.

ALL of that is set to change. The vast pool of humanity is no longer of any great value in extracting the resources. In fact they are becoming a drag on the ever more difficult to reach resources because they are competing with the extraction process by needing clean water and arable land. And the populations promise to repay the debt is being made al the more hollow by AI.

Nice reply Newf
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 30 Jan 2020, 12:53:36

A very nice book. On the surface, it seems like a simple book, but not so. It describes the basis of our civilization: Mind games. (My own paraphrase though).

Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/sapiens-yuval-noah-harari/1118611502?ean=9780062316110#/

This is an amazing book, written by an amazing man who has the wonderful ability to take very complicated issues and explain them as very simple ideas. Every Sapient on earth should read this book. It is a stunning book
Which explains how we humans got here and where we are headed. It deserves our greatest respect for it's author and should be required reading in every classroom on Earth.
This is the story about us,you and me and every human on Earth. Please read this and share it with everyone you know and pass it on to your Grandchildren for it is their generation to decide what will become of us.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 31 Jan 2020, 03:31:23

rockdoc123 wrote:
Citing labor is only a means to get at a relationship which should exist between ownership and those who work for them. Out of that relationship, checks and balances would develop. Those examples are, therefore, relevant.


Horseshit. Pure socialist BS. The relationship that exists between owners and employees has been one established over hundreds of years and has worked well over that time. As an owner you are entitled to compensate your employees what the market will bear in order to receive a contractual amount of labor. The market is determined by competition in the market for those services. Most jurisdictions have regulations over minimums and some over requirements for health care etc. The contract whether written or implied is an understanding of what is being paid along with what is required to be provided work-wise. If you aren't happy with the deal as an employee you can quit, it is that simple. Nobody is making you work under duress which is opposite to what you will find in a socialist system. The deal as employee does not give you the right to make decisions for the company, it does not give you the right to determine what contracted work you might decide is beneath you nor does it give you the right to determine a companies business plan, none of that comes with your compensation. You have a right to refuse work if it entails something that affects your immediate safety or other workers around you. If you want more say in what a company does then become a shareholder. And, once again, if you don't like the deal or the work you have to do or what you perceive your owners to be doing then quit, that is indeed your right.

+1

His yammering on this reminds me of the socialist clownfest left wingers who think that some secretary should get paid as much as a CEO because they both sit at a desk and read and write things.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby evilgenius » Fri 31 Jan 2020, 07:13:03

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
rockdoc123 wrote:
Citing labor is only a means to get at a relationship which should exist between ownership and those who work for them. Out of that relationship, checks and balances would develop. Those examples are, therefore, relevant.


Horseshit. Pure socialist BS. The relationship that exists between owners and employees has been one established over hundreds of years and has worked well over that time. As an owner you are entitled to compensate your employees what the market will bear in order to receive a contractual amount of labor. The market is determined by competition in the market for those services. Most jurisdictions have regulations over minimums and some over requirements for health care etc. The contract whether written or implied is an understanding of what is being paid along with what is required to be provided work-wise. If you aren't happy with the deal as an employee you can quit, it is that simple. Nobody is making you work under duress which is opposite to what you will find in a socialist system. The deal as employee does not give you the right to make decisions for the company, it does not give you the right to determine what contracted work you might decide is beneath you nor does it give you the right to determine a companies business plan, none of that comes with your compensation. You have a right to refuse work if it entails something that affects your immediate safety or other workers around you. If you want more say in what a company does then become a shareholder. And, once again, if you don't like the deal or the work you have to do or what you perceive your owners to be doing then quit, that is indeed your right.

+1

His yammering on this reminds me of the socialist clownfest left wingers who think that some secretary should get paid as much as a CEO because they both sit at a desk and read and write things.


No, it's simply my taking the issue of stakeholder involvement seriously. It doesn't mean that ownership ought to be eliminated. It does mean it should be changed. Whether that change is substantial of cosmetic depends upon the response when people recognize what has to happen. I think capitalism can evolve into something better. That's why I concentrate this criticism where I do. If that change doesn't happen, I believe capitalism will have trouble integrating AI without serious social catastrophe. Employment can be replaced with an ownership model, but not if everything in the future is configured as a fleet. Top down can be as static as the dinosaurs. It won't change when the time comes. Various other issues also rely upon this sort of change, like addressing global warming.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Cog » Fri 31 Jan 2020, 11:01:23

If only we embraced communism, had open borders, and made sure that transgendered people can pick our next cabinet can we be truly happy in our new utopia. At least that is what Bernie and Pocohauntas think.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Revi » Sat 01 Feb 2020, 05:50:07

I thought the stock market was supposed to be fixed, but the dow was down again. Can't they print up more funny money and fix it? At least Tesla's up, a lot! They are blaming the stock price drop on the fact that the market is finally taking the coronavirus seriously. Seriously!

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/tsla
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby Cog » Sat 01 Feb 2020, 07:15:55

The stock market loves certainty. When trade disruptions happen there is a money move to perceived safety, at least temporarily. When the corona virus is better understood, on how it impacts global trade, the market will go back up as the money rolls back into more risky investments.

I would make the case that the stock market will predict the outcome of this virus better than will the CDC or WHO.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby StarvingLion » Sat 01 Feb 2020, 12:29:58

Cog wrote:The stock market loves certainty. When trade disruptions happen there is a money move to perceived safety, at least temporarily. When the corona virus is better understood, on how it impacts global trade, the market will go back up as the money rolls back into more risky investments.

I would make the case that the stock market will predict the outcome of this virus better than will the CDC or WHO.


Cog is so clueless that he doesn't know that China is now going to destroy the US $ beginning with Stock Market Collapse.

Their largest oil field, Daqing Oil Field, is seneca cliffing because of MASSIVE suicidal reckless EOR, their debt is so MASSIVE it guarantees deflationary depression MUCH MUCH worse than USA 1929, and they have printed so much phoney money to guarantee the collapse of the US Dollar now that North Ghawar is in MASSIVE collapse.

They just pressed the SELL button on US Assets and you're all going to DIE in the next 3 years when the US $ won't buy a roll of toilet paper.

I have never been wrong in my predictions since I arrived here in August 2013.
Cog has now officially gone AWOL.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Feb 2020, 14:43:21

The stock market loves certainty. When trade disruptions happen there is a money move to perceived safety, at least temporarily. When the corona virus is better understood, on how it impacts global trade, the market will go back up as the money rolls back into more risky investments.


on another thread I pointed out that after SARS ended S&P was up substantially in 6 months and 1 years time. In fact almost all of the epidemics that caused a stir from the eighties onwards saw the S&P rise within 6 months time. The only one that didn't was the Aids crisis whose end in 1981 corresponded with the onset of a significant recession. So, yup....the market responds to worries about what might happen and when it becomes clear that isn't going to happen natural exuberance takes over.
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Re: The Financial System is Destroying the World Economy

Unread postby evilgenius » Sun 02 Feb 2020, 10:53:11

StarvingLion wrote:
Cog wrote:The stock market loves certainty. When trade disruptions happen there is a money move to perceived safety, at least temporarily. When the corona virus is better understood, on how it impacts global trade, the market will go back up as the money rolls back into more risky investments.

I would make the case that the stock market will predict the outcome of this virus better than will the CDC or WHO.


Cog is so clueless that he doesn't know that China is now going to destroy the US $ beginning with Stock Market Collapse.

Their largest oil field, Daqing Oil Field, is seneca cliffing because of MASSIVE suicidal reckless EOR, their debt is so MASSIVE it guarantees deflationary depression MUCH MUCH worse than USA 1929, and they have printed so much phoney money to guarantee the collapse of the US Dollar now that North Ghawar is in MASSIVE collapse.

They just pressed the SELL button on US Assets and you're all going to DIE in the next 3 years when the US $ won't buy a roll of toilet paper.

I have never been wrong in my predictions since I arrived here in August 2013.

So, you think that the current situation with oil won't last another decade? I think it can, but I don't know what I think about after that. Fracking has such high depletion rates. It also requires a financial industry that is very sophisticated. I'm not sure that what has happened in the US can be replicated outside of it. There is, obviously, as much oil in other places as there is in the US. If we absolutely had to, we could maintain the dominance of oil in the world's energy scheme. Without the financial structure to accomplish it, though, I don't give that much chance of happening. I'm pretty sure that as oil ends its reign most less developed countries in which it is extracted from will demand too big a piece of the action. The financiers probably won't go for that. It's too risky.

But I am biased in favor of the export land model working its way through the world's oil situation. I think most of the political problems in the Middle East are related to that. They have to maintain the nationalized model. It supports monarchy and dictatorships. The animosity with Israel is, mostly, a distraction. Democracies in the Arab world, depending upon the level of corruption, would give the people the things that, in their absence, the people feel frustrated enough over to fall far too easily lock step behind those who want a certain viewpoint from them. Jews and Arabs got along very well before the Twentieth Century. Places like Nigeria are democracies, but the level of corruption is high. Like Mexico, they marginalize minority groups within themselves. They need an enemy to keep the focus in a certain place. To keep it so that there are only two types of people, the rich and the poor.

I have, also, to say that I don't think that China is determined to undermine the dollar. Nor do I think they could effectively bring it down in value. The opposite, boosting the value of their US bonds, yes, but not what you suggest. That danger lies more with cryptocurrency. Once it becomes a viable alternative, and legally required in enough jurisdictions, the dollar will encounter competition of the sort that will threaten its hegemony. Such a currency won't be tied to nationalist central banking actions. It won't act in the interests of those who require policy to succeed. Many business schemes that require help from the government to succeed will be in doubt. Neither will the supply of money be tied to economic activity within any one pool of currency, or domestic economy. It will, instead, be like the clamp upon growth that comes with a gold standard, as opposed to the economic suffrage that comes with fiat currency. The money supply won't be able to keep up with demand. Outright favoritism will be required over hidden supplementation to succeed. Governments will pick winners, and commit to them. It will stifle creativity and initiative. It will be an interesting time, if it happens.
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evilgenius
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