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Degrowth Thread

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 16:50:55

Here is an example of forced Degrowth due to effect of climate change.


According to the Panama Canal Authority, after several years of below-average rainfall, the amount of rainfall recorded in 2019 was 20 percent below the historic average and the fifth lowest recorded rainfall in 70 years. Meanwhile, the Canal has also experienced an approximately 10 percent increase in water evaporation levels due to a 0.5 to 1.5 degree Celsius rise in temperature, the Canal Authority said.


https://gcaptain.com/extended-drought-f ... ion-slots/
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 18:11:10

Our front page carried the below linked story, a plan of how to save the World. It’s an interesting idea that I can see many of the Right and Left getting behind, if they can put their knives away.

https://www.suchresearch.net/blog/2019/ ... ainability

The article itself links then to this second page.


https://www.half-earthproject.org/
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby leslietomb95 » Thu 16 Jan 2020, 01:10:54

Degrowth factors are quarterly beneficial. Some of the best tips are given.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Revi » Fri 17 Jan 2020, 16:19:30

Newfie wrote:Our front page carried the below linked story, a plan of how to save the World. It’s an interesting idea that I can see many of the Right and Left getting behind, if they can put their knives away.

https://www.suchresearch.net/blog/2019/ ... ainability

The article itself links then to this second page.


https://www.half-earthproject.org/


It shows Haiti as living within it's means. It's only doing that because it has to. We are using 3 times what we actually produce because we can. We just hand people IOUs and they give us their stuff. It will end soon enough!
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 17 Jan 2020, 19:10:51

Just saw an article today saying the country with the most sustainable profile was Cuba.

FWIW ..... I circulated this article to a group of very liberal folks, about 60. 3 replied. One, a very senior lawyer, said it was interesting and our leaders should be talking about this stuff. The other two, one a research MD, made non-sensical comments that revealed they were failures at reading comprehension.

Quite depressing results.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Cog » Fri 17 Jan 2020, 20:12:29

If only we embraced a totalitarian government, then we can be truly free from growth.

Inside every degrowther is a person who absolutely wants to control every aspect of your life. At gun point if necessary.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 17 Jan 2020, 21:39:23

Good grief Cog, I know you can read but you too have failed reading comprehension.

I thought your would like this as it would strongly argue for zero immigration.

Try to explain to me again how infinite growth is possible?
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby careinke » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 02:53:20

Newfie wrote:Good grief Cog, I know you can read but you too have failed reading comprehension.

I thought your would like this as it would strongly argue for zero immigration.

Try to explain to me again how infinite growth is possible?


Well, I looked at both links and found it ......Interesting. Especially the 1/2 earth stuff. I agree the quickest way to have any success would be a no immigration policy. I think they greatly overestimate the amount of land you need to feed people, and greatly underestimate the value for the environment of live stock (in addition to feeding people).

Unfortunately, I also see a lot of authoritarianism coming out of this movement, which I believe is what Cog is rebelling against.

Here is a recent video from Jack Spirko discussing
Is Hydroponics Good or Bad For the Environment?
which is Germain to this topic.

But first some background on Jack Spirko, he is an Anarchist, right leaning, Permaculturist. Right now he is developing a hydroponics system that will feed a family of four all of their nutrient packed leafy green vegetables for under $800. It will produce a net of $100 of produce a month and pay for itself in six months. Oh, it takes up 2' x 4 ' of floor space, and not a lot of time per week. He will be showing it at the Feb Mother Earth News Fair in Texas.

Anyway You may enjoy his take on saving the environment. I'd be interested in your take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL9ik1qQWoY
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 07:53:15

Carinke,

I have a hard time doing videos due to my bandwidth but I’ll try to view this one.

I agree that there is opportunity for authoritarian abuse, but that exists pretty much in every movement. One needs to be constantly aware as there is always someone who wants to take power and will use whatever vehicle available.

One of the things I liked about the article was that he was not overly dogmatic and purposely left a lot of room for adjustment. He was focused more on the basic concept that unlimited growth is impossible and to draw a broad picture of what a sustainable solution would look like. And I very much liked the concept that each country needs to learn to live within their own limits, to stay within their own borders and find their own solutions.

I have shared this article fairly widely and find that most people who “read” it don’t. Their reactions are wholly off the point of the article which means it’s more of a Rorschach Test.

One (Who supports the Paris accords) saw unreasonable demands for us to support Africa with additional aid.

Another saw it as imposing a Chinese style or one child policy in the USA.

Cog sees it as an authoritarian plot.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 19 Jan 2020, 08:07:59

As I have reported in the past, Iran faces a demographic crisis over the next two decades as its population ages rapidly. There are five prime-age Iranians supporting every Iranian over the age of 65, but by mid-century, the ratio will collapse to just 1.6 to one. Strangely, the Iranian authorities have reported an increase in the “total fertility rate,” namely the estimated number of children that the average woman will bear during her lifetime. The increase evidently is due to optimistic assumptions about the future rather than observed behavior in the present.

Iranians face desperate conditions, if not actual hunger, due to the effect of economic sanctions. Add to this the long-term effects of mismanagement of the country’s scarce water resources. Afshin Shahi wrote recently in the Journal of Asian Affairs: “Approximately 97% of the country is experiencing drought conditions. Due to gross water mismanagement and its damaging impact on the country, Iran faces the worst situation in the water resources of any industrialized nation. Tens of thousands of villages have been deserted and most of the major urban centers have passed their limits to absorb new rural migrants. Some officials predict that in less than 25 years, 50 million Iranians would be displaced from their current homes because of the pressing ecological conditions.”


https://www.asiatimes.com/2020/01/artic ... -regime-2/

One way to look at this situation is that the sanctions are forcing Iran back within their borders and within short order. And Iran needs to adapt to that situation, which will be very difficult because it is heavily over populated for the water supply.

This also happened to Cuba and the first years were tough. But they have eventually adjusted and are now one of the most sustainable countries. It helps that they have adequate water and a 12 month growing season and that there was a lot of out migration. This isn’t to support their heavy handed government but to show what can be done in spite of poor governance.
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