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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 3 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 13:42:53

Plantagenet wrote:
AdamB wrote:... your trolling ....


One of the easiest ways to identify internet trolls is that they disrupt internet sites by calling other people trolls. You seem to fit that pattern, Addy.


Honesty is a virtue, regardless of your take on internet etiquette.
StarvingPuutyTat says: I'm so confident in my TOTAL COLLAPSE is IMMINENT prediction that I stake my entire reputation on it. It will happen this year. - Aug 3-2020
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 13:58:39

And so Plant just continues his robotic programming, just as I said he would.

Image

there are sometimes traffic jams of Tesla superchargers with long lines


Yes, during high-travel periods when everyone is setting out at the same time thinking they're entitled to a spot at a popular watering hole station. It doesn't really impact the larger calculus of whether EVs are viable. It will not hasten the end sububia or happy motoring in the slightest and hence it's inconsequential to the larger peak oil debate.

What it does do, of course, is present you with a soapbox to spam the forum with FUD. We know the modus operandi and we're tired of it.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 17:22:24

asg70 wrote:Plant just continues his robotic programming


Sorry but your attack is wrong as usual. I'm not a robot and I'm not programmed. You, on the other hand, seem to be interested only in attacking other posters.....and here you go again.

asg70 wrote: ....during high-travel periods when everyone is setting out at the same time thinking they're entitled to a spot at a popular watering hole station.


Yes...and thats exactly what I said.

So you actually agree with me? Imagine that!!!! And if you honest enough to admit you actually agree with me then the question arises as to why are you misrepresenting what was posted so you can launch another attack? Let me guess....you made up a phony reason to attack another poster because thats mainly what you come here to do.

asg70 wrote: It doesn't really impact the larger calculus of whether EVs are viable. It will not hasten the end sububia or happy motoring in the slightest and hence it's inconsequential to the larger peak oil debate.


I never claimed it did any of those things. I never mentioned any of those things. You're just making things up again.

The fact that 15 Teslas got stuck at a charging station is merely an interesting and amusing news story about Teslas which the over active imagination in your little mind construed as having something to do "the larger calculus of whether EVs are viable." You're like one of those little dogs that just wants to bark all the time....and if there is no reason then you'll just make up a reason...as you've just done here.

And why are you so concerned over whether or not EVs are viable anyway? EVs are clearly viable. In fact, you yourself claim you are an EV owner. But for some reason you want to gin up a phony argument over whether EVs are viable? You'll just have to argue with yourself over that one---as far as I'm concerned the whole subject is settled.

asg70 wrote:What it does do, of course, is present you with a soapbox to spam the forum with FUD.


You are making things up again. I didn't say anything bad about Teslas at all. I merely cited a humorous news article about 15 Teslas being stuck waiting for a supercharger......something you yourself admits happens.

The only spam going on here is the endless spam of you attacking other posters....and for you any excuse will do. Even a made-up controversy where it turns out you actually agree with me on the facts.

I suggest you try to get a grip on yourself.

Image
Get a grip on yourself, asg/mos/ennui. You're just making things up so you can bark attack. I suggest you stand down and admit that EVs are viable and admit that its funny when some wealthy guy in a brand new $150,000 Tesla model S with ludicrous mode gets stuck in a long line waiting for a charger. Yes, search deep within yourself and find a shred of honesty and then admit you agree with me on this. Honesty is the best policy, you know.

Cheers!
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 21:40:22

asg70 wrote:Tragedy of the commons write large. Superchargers are put in place to cover average usage, not spikes when every EV user in the area jumps in their cars and road trips at the exact same time. EV owners should not expect to be able to do those sorts of trips. It's not the end of the world and is a poor thing to seize on for FUD. Ain't gonna kill suburbia, folks.

To be fair, though, this IS a risk of trip-taking in a BEV during busy periods like holiday rushes, at least until there is plenty of spare charging infrastructure, just like with the mature ICE landscape, there is an abundance of gas stations.

Just like, to be fair, if there is an oil crisis due to weather, gas stations might have to close and there might be gas lines; just like if the grid is down, there might be an issue charging BEV's in an area.

To me, this is a reason why HEV's, or perhaps PHEV's are a great transitional vehicle while the next decade or so sorts a LOT of such issues out, and also helps the cost of BEV's come down. No range anxiety, unless gas lines become a common and widespread thing.

...

But either side claiming either condition "can't happen" or claiming it is "unfair" to point it out when it inevitably DOES happen, isn't being reasonable, IMO.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 23:54:01

Plantagenet wrote:Sorry but your attack


Wasn't I on ignore? If so, stop engaging. I and everyone else will appreciate it.

Plantagenet wrote:The fact that 15 Teslas got stuck at a charging station is merely an interesting and amusing news story


In other words, you're wasting our time? Trolls be trolling.

BTW, I remember another poster who used to clutch his pearls and claim it was all a joke quite often. PStarr. Remember when he said he was just here "for the yuks"? Well, people who do that are nothing but trolls. They don't add anything useful to the discussion. This is a discussion group and the discussion is about doom. The where, when, how, what, why. It's not a place to drop links to current events unless there's an actually POINT to it, either to back up or tear down a narrative. I know Alaska can be cold and lonely but we're not your social circle, Plant, and we don't look to you for idle humor. Offer up a coherent thesis and be willing to defend it or step away from the keyboard.

One more thing, btw. Humorists usually don't repeat their punch-line over and over again. Either it lands or it doesn't. The reason why you kept beating us over the head with it is to attack the validity of EVs, plain and simple. You just don't want to cop to it because if you did, you'd actually have to respond to the rebuttals and you aren't really capable of a fully fledged pro vs. con debate or to advance the discussion. All you can do is keep playing the same riff you came in with in the hopes it gains traction, day after day, week after week if necessary, as if it's some sort of front-page-news-grade scandal. It's like you're crouching down holding a lighter next to a pile of wet leaves hoping it eventually causes an attention-grabbing forest fire.

I just find it ridiculous that you fail to realize how that sort of endless repetition and lack of ability to truly engage would, ya know, ANNOY people. I mean, even Arthur Fleck would quit before you do.

Plantagenet wrote:EVs are clearly viable.


Other than car fires and causing cancer and what other FUD you see fit to dump in this thread.

Plantagenet wrote:But for some reason you want to gin up a phony argument over whether EVs are viable?


You're gaslighting again.

Not taking the bait on that one.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 00:17:23



That's what Planty does!!! Great definition, and when you go through the routine Planty uses, it hits on nearly all the indicators mentioned! The passive-aggressive aspect was always a bit off, I just dismissed it all as trolling, but gaslighting explains Plant's natural posting style much better.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 01:53:16

asg70 wrote:gaslighting.....


The most obvious sign a person is a troll is that they spend all their time accusing other people of trolling, gaslighting, etc.


AdamB wrote:trolling....


The most obvious sign a person is a troll is that they spend all their time accusing other people of trolling, gaslighting, etc.

Cheers! :lol: 8) :roll:
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 09:43:41

asg70 wrote:I just find it ridiculous that you fail to realize how that sort of endless repetition and lack of ability to truly engage would, ya know, ANNOY people.


Plant, keep up the good work. I for one enjoy your posts. Brings out a chuckle in me.
And with 5 active posters repeating each their dug in position ad nausum, this forum is not much of a place for discussion, but more for entertainment. Don't you think so?
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 11:43:35

With attitudes like that then there's no way for the site to bounce back, that's for sure.

Enjoy the malthusian catastorphe everybody! It's just a joke!

Image

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby mousepad » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 15:03:46

asg70 wrote:With attitudes like that then there's no way for the site to bounce back, that's for sure.

Once the situation becomes dire again, the site will bounce back.

It's just a joke!

It's always a good idea to laugh about things you can't change.
EV use might be good for your personal salvation, but it won't keep a single drop of oil in the ground.
If anything, it will make oil cheaper, encouraging further consumption.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 15:05:23

This showed up in my youtube recommendations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTek_kv2DY

Looks like the doomer niche have picked up on the durability aspect of the Cybertruck.

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 19:01:28

asg70 wrote:This showed up in my youtube recommendations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTek_kv2DY

Looks like the doomer niche have picked up on the durability aspect of the Cybertruck.

Very interesting and I agree with much of his analysis. I am trying to talk the wife into going for the $100 just in hopes that it will be worth buying when it is actually ready for delivery. Hitting a brick wall on that so far but all she needs is one more purchase on her art hobby before I can claim sauce for the goose equals sauce for the gander.
In rural Vermont being the first to drive up to the main street store in a cyber truck would be the equivalent of driving down Daytona beech in a new or classic Corvette with a centerfold babe in the passenger seat.
Thinking about it.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 19:11:35

In rural Vermont being the first to drive up to the main street store in a cyber truck would be the equivalent of driving down Daytona beech in a new or classic Corvette with a centerfold babe in the passenger seat.


Jaysus glad I don't live in Vermont. In our neighborhood showing up with one of those would be not much different than the fat kid showing up first day at school with his collar buttoned-up, a pencil protector in his shirt pocket and his pants pulled up to just below his chest. You must be talking about the non-redneck part of Vermont :P
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 19:23:32

rockdoc123 wrote:
In rural Vermont being the first to drive up to the main street store in a cyber truck would be the equivalent of driving down Daytona beech in a new or classic Corvette with a centerfold babe in the passenger seat.


Jaysus glad I don't live in Vermont. In our neighborhood showing up with one of those would be not much different than the fat kid showing up first day at school with his collar buttoned-up, a pencil protector in his shirt pocket and his pants pulled up to just below his chest. You must be talking about the non-redneck part of Vermont :P
A "semi" bullet proof 4x4 truck with suspension adjustment for the terrain before you chargeable from the solar panels on your barn roof? What red neck Vermontah would not want one. Need to see the hookup to the snow plow of course and what the tires will do in mud and snow at the same time but we will see.
And if you think I am not the the epitome of redneck in Vermont you have not been paying attention.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 23:14:33

I think the frontend itself could function like a snowplow ;)

BOLD PREDICTIONS
-Billions are on the verge of starvation as the lockdown continues. (yoshua, 5/20/20)

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 04 Dec 2019, 04:20:20

asg70 wrote:I think the frontend itself could function like a snowplow ;)

Battering ram yes snowplow no. It would have some recessed ports in the belly sheet for attachment of the "Minute Man" plow mounts And that front nose better be hiding a winch mount or a beer cooler or both. :)
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 05 Dec 2019, 15:36:21

It just happened again. On "black friday" dozens of Teslas in California wound up waiting in a line more than a half mile long, inching forward for hours until they could at last creep up to to chargers and get recharged.

Chaos-California-Tesla-drivers-stranded-hours-half-mile-long-line-charge

THis is bad PR for Tesla. They've got a wonderful product, but there's a problem if people can't actually use their EVs to travel around town and even go on intercity trips the same way people do in their ICE vehicles.

I'm surprised every gas station in the country isn't adding superchargers right now. There clearly is a need for them. Do the gas stations make a profit when EVs come in to recharge....or is it free? Maybe the price of a recharge should be set higher, to incentivize gas stations to add more chargers?

Image
Why are we waiting in this long line? Rumor has it if we wait in this line for hours we can get our Teslas recharged.....

CHEERS!
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 07 Dec 2019, 23:08:44

Plantagenet wrote:I
I'm surprised every gas station in the country isn't adding superchargers right now. There clearly is a need for them. Do the gas stations make a profit when EVs come in to recharge....or is it free? Maybe the price of a recharge should be set higher, to incentivize gas stations to add more chargers?

I wonder why this (to the extent of being a trend, not all gas stations) isn't true as well.

Could regulations be an issue? After all, very high current and gasoline don't seem like things that are overly safe if anything goes wrong. Maybe as the proportion of BEV's rise this will change.

The tipping point has GOT to be economics, at the end of the day. Gas stations have great locations overall, and are well dispersed, so the convenience potential for BEV drivers seems blindingly obvious.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sun 08 Dec 2019, 01:18:30

The tipping point has GOT to be economics, at the end of the day. Gas stations have great locations overall, and are well dispersed, so the convenience potential for BEV drivers seems blindingly obvious.


exactly. A company that sells petrol at their stations has to have the incentive in place to provide charging, it doesn't make sense if their research shows not large enough demand. But that aside I've said this before a single station even if they replaced all of their gasoline pumps with charging stations is still not sufficient to power a large EV compliment. Think about it, when you fill your normal car with gasoline you can do it in about 1 minute at most. That means with 8 pumps a large station can have some pretty large throughput. I have seen that even with that many pumps during peak tourist season in certain areas that there are line ups. Now say all of those pumps are charging stations but it takes 20 minutes to charge each vehicle. You don't need to use advanced calculus to figure out there are going to be huge lineups. To my mind, you will need 4 times (at least) as many stations as you currently have. Bill Gates made a fairly astute observation that when looking at the energy transition story you need to bring math to the table. Most people aren't willing to do that simply because the math is not very encouraging when you start to run all the numbers. This is one of the reasons I have a view that our goals have to be not complete transition but a gradual transition over a very long time. I think this will work if everyone bought into it now rather than a decade from now.
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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 08 Dec 2019, 07:38:37

Rockdoc::
Yes we need to bring math to the table, it will show up invited or not.
In a fully developed EV market most owners will have charging setups at wherever they park their car in their off hours. That is equivalent to having a gas pump in most private garages and where say eighty to ninety percent of charging will take place. Then the demand for chargers at what are now fuel stations will be just ten to twenty percent of what the number of cars they are servicing today.
I expect there will be considerable reluctance by gas stations to add charging stations as it switches profits away from their parent oil companies to the electric utilities providing the power. They certainly will not quick charge EVs for free or at a loss to them bottom line.
I also would not faint from shock if Exxon and the other fossil fuel corporations started buying up shares in electric utilities including grid distribution systems and solar and wind farms.
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