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Greta Thunberg's Voyage Pt. 1

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 12:29:04

London arrested hundreds of street demonstrators and they have just banned the Extinction Rebellion movement.

So much for the attempt by citizens to use nonviolent resistance to protest government inaction on climate change.

Cheers!!!
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 15:20:50

Stuart Basden a co-founder of Extinction Rebellion recently posted on a blog (trying to find the link as I seem to have misplaced it)

I’ve been with Extinction Rebellion (XR) from the start. I was one of the 15 people in April 2018 who came together and made the collective decision to try to create the conditions that would initiate a rebellion. I was a coordinator of one of the original five working groups, and I’ve been organising with XR day-and-night since then (frugally living off my savings so I don’t have to work, having quit an industry that paid me £1000/week). And I’ve been in RisingUp (the organisation from which XR has emerged) since the first RisingUp action in November 2016. I’m a RisingUp Holding Group member, and a member of the XR Guardianship Team.
And I’m here to say that XR isn’t about the climate. You see, the climate’s breakdown is a symptom of a toxic system of that has infected the ways we relate to each other as humans and to all life. This was exacerbated when European ‘civilisation’ was spread around the globe through cruelty and violence (especially) over the last 600 years of colonialism, although the roots of the infections go much further back.
As Europeans spread their toxicity around the world, they brought torture, genocide, carnage and suffering to the ends of the earth. Their cultural myths justified the horrors, such as the idea that indigenous people were animals (not humans), and therefore God had given us dominion over them. This was used to justify a multi-continent-wide genocide of tens of millions of people. The coming of the scientific era saw this intensify, as the world around us was increasingly seen as ‘dead’ matter — just sitting there waiting for us to exploit it and use it up. We’re now using it up faster than ever.
Euro-Americans violently imposed and taught dangerous delusions that they used to justify the exploitation and reinforced our dominance, while silencing worldviews that differed or challenged them. 

It’s worth naming some of these constructed delusions that have been coded into societies and institutions around the world:
• The delusion of white-supremacy centres whiteness and the experience of white people, constructing and perpetuating the myth that white people and their lives are somehow inherently better and more valuable than people of colour.
• The delusion of patriarchy centres the male experience, and excludes/hinders female assigned people from public life (reducing them to a possession or object for ownership or consumption). Patriarchy teaches dominating and competitive behaviours, and emphasises the idea that the world is a place of scarcity, separation and powerlessness.
• The delusions of Eurocentrism include the notion that Europeans know what is best for the world.
• The delusions of hetero-sexism/heteronormativity propagate the idea that heterosexuality is ‘normal’ and that other expressions of sexuality are deviant.
• The delusions of class hierarchy uphold the theory that the rich elite are better/smarter/nobler than the rest of us, and make therefore better decisions.

so basically the same BS that individuals have been protesting for several decades. For these whackos, Climate Change is simply an excuse to dress and prance around like a dufus with the added benefit of being able to piss off people who work for a living. London seems to have figured this out.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 16:49:10

Rockdoc

Are you missing quotation marks in that post? If you want to submit a corrected post I can delete the above for you.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 17:57:46

Yeah, that's wierd, I had the quotes in there I thought (usually I save my selective memory for not doing things my wife tells me to do). No way to edit either. I'll copy and paste into a new one and try again.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 18:00:32

Stuart Basden a co-founder of Extinction Rebellion recently posted on a blog (trying to find the link as I seem to have misplaced it)

I’ve been with Extinction Rebellion (XR) from the start. I was one of the 15 people in April 2018 who came together and made the collective decision to try to create the conditions that would initiate a rebellion. I was a coordinator of one of the original five working groups, and I’ve been organising with XR day-and-night since then (frugally living off my savings so I don’t have to work, having quit an industry that paid me £1000/week). And I’ve been in RisingUp (the organisation from which XR has emerged) since the first RisingUp action in November 2016. I’m a RisingUp Holding Group member, and a member of the XR Guardianship Team.
And I’m here to say that XR isn’t about the climate. You see, the climate’s breakdown is a symptom of a toxic system of that has infected the ways we relate to each other as humans and to all life. This was exacerbated when European ‘civilisation’ was spread around the globe through cruelty and violence (especially) over the last 600 years of colonialism, although the roots of the infections go much further back.

As Europeans spread their toxicity around the world, they brought torture, genocide, carnage and suffering to the ends of the earth. Their cultural myths justified the horrors, such as the idea that indigenous people were animals (not humans), and therefore God had given us dominion over them. This was used to justify a multi-continent-wide genocide of tens of millions of people. The coming of the scientific era saw this intensify, as the world around us was increasingly seen as ‘dead’ matter — just sitting there waiting for us to exploit it and use it up. We’re now using it up faster than ever.
Euro-Americans violently imposed and taught dangerous delusions that they used to justify the exploitation and reinforced our dominance, while silencing worldviews that differed or challenged them.

It’s worth naming some of these constructed delusions that have been coded into societies and institutions around the world:
• The delusion of white-supremacy centres whiteness and the experience of white people, constructing and perpetuating the myth that white people and their lives are somehow inherently better and more valuable than people of colour.
• The delusion of patriarchy centres the male experience, and excludes/hinders female assigned people from public life (reducing them to a possession or object for ownership or consumption). Patriarchy teaches dominating and competitive behaviours, and emphasises the idea that the world is a place of scarcity, separation and powerlessness.
• The delusions of Eurocentrism include the notion that Europeans know what is best for the world.
• The delusions of hetero-sexism/heteronormativity propagate the idea that heterosexuality is ‘normal’ and that other expressions of sexuality are deviant.
• The delusions of class hierarchy uphold the theory that the rich elite are better/smarter/nobler than the rest of us, and make therefore better decisions.


so basically the same BS that individuals have been protesting for several decades. For these whackos, Climate Change is simply an excuse to dress and prance around like a dufus with the added benefit of being able to piss off people who work for a living. London seems to have figured this out.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby GHung » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 18:19:15

Sort of like those who prance around in service of unfettered growth, touting their roles as masters of capitalism, as if there will be no consequences for those who will have no choice in the matter.
Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit nothing but their Souls. - Anonymous Ghung Person
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Cog » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 18:59:12

Just like AOC'S chief of staff has admitted about her green new deal, it was not about climate change but societal change.

Just admit it climate change activists, what you want is societal change by any means necessary. Too many people? Kill them or abort them.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 19:04:08

Plantagenet wrote:London arrested hundreds of street demonstrators and they have just banned the Extinction Rebellion movement.

So much for the attempt by citizens to use nonviolent resistance to protest government inaction on climate change.

Cheers!!!


Notice that once they started protesting and interrupting the operations of a Black Rock office in the City of London, owned by the dynastic banking families that are claiming nearly the entirety of the productive output of the human race for themselves as well as employing members of the criminal intelligence agencies, is the point with which their protest was banned.

The XR started targeting one of the sources of this civilization's problems, and the powerful are not keen on that problem being solved because it will cut off their gravy train and necessitate their own removal from power.

This pattern repeats everywhere in so-called "democracies" that have "free speech" of some form. Protest is allowed, but only where it does not disrupt the actions of the powerful, and where it does, it is crushed.

I predict this will eventually turn violent.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Cog » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 19:08:29

They can protest peacefully in a park or other places that do not interfere with commerce.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 20:25:10

Cog wrote:They can protest peacefully in a park or other places that do not interfere with commerce.


That defeats the point of protest. The point of a protest IS to interfere.

When the colonists in Boston dumped the tea into the harbor nearly 250 years ago, they were interfering with commerce.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 23:46:57

The_Toecutter wrote:That defeats the point of protest. The point of a protest IS to interfere.
When the colonists in Boston dumped the tea into the harbor nearly 250 years ago, they were interfering with commerce.


That kind of thing led to a war. Not the same thing as a protest unless you want a civil war. I know people like Derrick Jensen would like nothing more, but is this the way we want things to go down?

The_Toecutter wrote:I predict this will eventually turn violent.


You predict or you wish? I predict if it does, you'll celebrate.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Cog » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 04:54:13

Where Antifa is involved, there will always be violence involved.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 07:53:33

Greta just said it’s necessary to break the law to get the attention of TPTB on climate change. On the other hand average Londoners hate the protests and are starting to push aside those protesters blocking the Tube system

IMHO blocking roads and trying to shut down the subway are dumb tactics. Extinction Rebellion should’ve focused on blocking government offices instead of inconveniencing average londoners.
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People who buy new cars and then cry crocodile tears over climate change. The manufacture of a typical new car emits ca. 16 tons of CO2 and a new EV is actually much worse since the battery also has to be manufactured, resulting in a total carbon footprint of ca. 30 tons of CO2
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 16:11:47

Cog wrote:Where Antifa is involved, there will always be violence involved.

I would expect nothing short of it out of fascist organization.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 16:16:18

Plantagenet wrote:Its a shame Greta didn’t win the Nobel Peace Prize. But the judges are all Swedish and so is Greta, and its possible Greta isn’t very popular in Sweden because she protested for month after month against the failed climate warming policies of Sweden——something the establishment in Sweden probably didn’t like very much.

Ech,
If she only was a Muslim migrant or at least transsexual they would give it to her.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 19:48:22

asg70 wrote:That kind of thing led to a war. Not the same thing as a protest unless you want a civil war.


TPTB of the time initiated the violence and the threats of force. They could have yielded to the will of the colonists and left them alone as an alternative. The colonists were the victims of abuse and were not at fault for the actions of those in power that led to the violence.

The same can be said for the modern UK government, and many others.

You seem ok with violence coming from the state and directed by the elite of society, but you're opposed to it coming from the other direction. It's a double standard shared by many.

Every civil war is preventable, and it is in the hands of those with the political power to prevent them. All they have to do is forfeit their power.

I know people like Derrick Jensen would like nothing more, but is this the way we want things to go down?


That depends on what the outcome is. Status quo is driving us to extinction, hence the extinction rebellion...

You predict or you wish? I predict if it does, you'll celebrate.


I'm not wishing for any violence, nor would it by itself be cause for celebration. The celebration should begin after success. But...

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~John Fitzgerald Kennedy

I've dealt with bullies before. Sometimes violence was the only way to dispatch them, because all other means were attempted without success. And it worked. They didn't fuck with me anymore because they became scared of what I might do in response to their actions. I do not like violence, but pacifism has its limits.

The non-violent protestors are slowly figuring this out. And things could get very ugly as a result of the confrontation. Sometimes the confrontation is necessary, unless you're perfectly happy with the status quo trending towards extinction...

Violence isn't the only option remaining at this time though. A world-wide non-violent general strike, shutting everything down, with 1-2% of the world's population participating, could do the trick. If TPTB become violent as a result, then violence out of self defense is justified in that scenario...
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 19:50:59

Cog wrote:Where Antifa is involved, there will always be violence involved.


Antifa is controlled opposition. Lots of police and intelligence operatives within acting as agent provocateurs. In spite of claiming to be against fascism, they are quite fascistic as an organization, even if the majority of the members composing it are truly against fascism and are horrified at what has transpired in the U.S. and elsewhere.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 19:55:47

Plantagenet wrote:Greta just said it’s necessary to break the law to get the attention of TPTB on climate change.


She's right.

On the other hand average Londoners hate the protests and are starting to push aside those protesters blocking the Tube system


When millions of Londoners were disrupted, the police did nothing.

The appearance of dissent is allowed in the fake democracies of the world, but when the levers of power are targeted for disruption, the crackdown begins in earnest.

Imagine what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Americans decided to occupy K Street and disrupt all the corporate lobbyists who buy politicians and buy the legislation we are expected to follow, legislation enforced under threat of imprisonment or even death if imprisonment is refused.

IMHO blocking roads and trying to shut down the subway are dumb tactics.


Very much agreed.

Extinction Rebellion should’ve focused on blocking government offices instead of inconveniencing average londoners.


It wasn't until Blackrock and various offices in the City of London(a one square mile piece of land not to be confused with London) where the puppetmasters and MI5/MI6 intelligence operatives pulling the strings operate from, that the crackdown was initiated in earnest.

That should tell you something. The protestors were doing something effective once they targeted this area, and those in power became scared.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 18 Oct 2019, 09:24:09

Plantagenet wrote:Extinction Rebellion should’ve focused on blocking government offices instead of inconveniencing average londoners.


You focus on government the way someone prays to a god to magically solve things without anybody having to make any sacrifices or roll up their sleeves on earth.

What you fail to get again and again is that if the government does something meaningful it WILL "inconvenience average londoners" through curtailing consumption.

Climate legislation needs to be a combination of carrots AND sticks.

This is exactly why the right are denialist since they don't want giveaways (carrots) and they don't want regulations/taxes (sticks). If dealing with climate change didn't involve any of these things there wouldn't be any denialism.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby nocar » Wed 23 Oct 2019, 05:30:05

Plantagenet wrote:
"Its a shame Greta didn’t win the Nobel Peace Prize. But the judges are all Swedish and so is Greta, and its possible Greta isn’t very popular in Sweden because she protested for month after month against the failed climate warming policies of Sweden——something the establishment in Sweden probably didn’t like very much."

Well, actually, the Nobel Peace Prize, unlike all the others, is a Norwegian affair. The judges are Norwegian, and the ceremony takes place in Oslo, Norway. This was stipulated by Alfred Nobel in his will.
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