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Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 04 Oct 2019, 18:14:30

Greta Thunberg and her peaceful worldwide vigils have so far failed to get the UN or the governments of the world to take action against climate change.

A group called "Extinction Rebellion" is now planning to escalate the level of climate protests against the do-nothing governments of the world. On monday they will start a two-week long worldwide campaign that will involve civil disobedience and forcible road closures and other forms of protest in 60+ cities around the world to try to force governments to take real action against climate change. They are calling this campaign "International Resistance."


extinction-rebellion-fortnight-worldwide-climate-protests

Here is the statement of Extinction Rebellion:

"To governments of the world: we declared a climate and ecological emergency. You did not do enough. To everybody else: rebel,

"This isn't a distant apocalypse. People all over the world are suffering and dying right now.

Next, it will happen to you, and everybody you love, too.

You can't count on us or Greta to do this for you. Look inside yourself and rebel."
"


Image

Cheers!
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People who buy new cars and then cry crocodile tears over climate change. The manufacture of a typical new car emits ca. 16 tons of CO2 and a new EV is actually much worse since the battery also has to be manufactured, resulting in a total carbon footprint of ca. 30 tons of CO2
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 02:32:28

Ibon wrote:Basically my optimism has always come from the way consequences will act on culture. Consumption culture seems so resilient when you consider the way almost every nation, religion, race and culture has jumped on board in the last 50 years. The fact that it has become so ubiquitous does not mean it is resllient though.

Resilience of consumption culture has a deep connection to laws of physics.
These are dictating that system will try to rearrange itself to come to an equlibrium where entropy is high and there is no available energy for further use. This equilibrium also entails a situation with all dead and pile of sand left.
Of course for time being constant flow of solar energy prevents such a sad state of affairs to occur, but it doesn't mean that the system will not try to get there anyway (at the end it will succeed).

So consumption culture is nothing more than helping a natural system to come to equlibrium faster.
In the past, where there was no knowledge how to consume efficiently, pressure on environment was much lower than now.
Once we have gained this knowledge, we will carry on consuming as long as the knowledge how to do it exists and as long as consumable resources are there and until we are no longer around.

So a society to stop consuming on current level would either need to exhaust resources (and face dieoff) or alternatively it would need to loose knowledge how to carry on with consuming or/and infrastructure which allows it.

Basically IMO the only realistic hope to stop consuming would be loosing knowlegde how to do it.
Stupidification of western Millenials lends some hope here but my concern is that industrial consuming motor will simply move to China and elsewhere, where higher morale of society (and also governmental iron fist) will prevent decadence by progress from occurring.
So essentially this leads us to situation when rampant consumption stops only at the point where exhaustion of resources (or an external event like nuclear war or asteroid strike) have forced industrial infrastructure to shut down.

Then dieoff will follow.

One of the reasons Greta has resonated so powerfully is that the culture is ripe to move. Individual action can start a momentum of change because the collective is ready for something greater than the emptiness of personal consumption. I have always thought we would need the physical consequences first. I still do believe that but I am now entertaining the idea that we may see significant cultural shifts away from consumption before we really plunge down the backside of energy constraints and climate change consequences.

Cultures which follow Greta's message will succumb short term to these who don't.
Should entire West follow her message, countries like China will only seize an opportunity to become apex consumer (and ruler of the world).
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby careinke » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 02:36:38

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:IMHO her success in creating a global movement to protest for more government action on climate change is perhaps the most significant thing any single individual has done in recent years.

Creating movement per se is not a sufficient reason for Nobel Prize.
Lets see what this movement (if established) has achieved first.
For example if an outcome is taxing air travel to oblivion, then there would be a significant reduction of GHG emissions and a call for Nobel Prize.
But if all what is done is peddling more SJW & gender agenda then the only prize due would be a medal of *Contributor to Liquidation of White Race* or maybe some sort of *Ruinator of Society* award.


Hey Obama got the Nobel Prize, and he did nothing! I think she deserves it way more than that Keynesian. :twisted:
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 11:07:25

careinke wrote:Hey Obama got the Nobel Prize, and he did nothing! I think she deserves it way more than that Keynesian. :twisted:

To get Nobel Prize for peace you might need to be responsible for death of a lot peoples like in the case of Henry Kissinger for example.
Even Hitler was a candidate but for some reasons they have failed to give it to him.
So Greta is really too mediocre for it, but who knows?
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 11:23:01

So much talk about Greta and curb GHG emissions and yet Russians are now designing flying cars:
https://www.rt.com/russia/470276-russia ... car-drone/
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 11:41:41

careinke wrote:Hey Obama got the Nobel Prize, and he did nothing!


Obama got it because he wasn't G W Bush and he went on the mea culpa tour through the middle-east.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Pops » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 13:28:03

It surprises the heck out of me that Greta isn't the avatar of every doomer on this board.
“We are at the beginning of mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth,”

It is a distillation of 15 years of PO.com
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 14:25:53

Pops wrote:It surprises the heck out of me that Greta isn't the avatar of every doomer on this board.
“We are at the beginning of mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth,”

It is a distillation of 15 years of PO.com


She's hardly the first public figure to say as much.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 05 Oct 2019, 20:36:28

Pops wrote:It surprises the heck out of me that Greta isn't the avatar of every doomer on this board.
“We are at the beginning of mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth,”

It is a distillation of 15 years of PO.com


Old and fat obsolete baby boomers can say it with impunity. A 16 year old girl who will suffer the consequences? It just rubs one wrong I guess.

“When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.”


Everyone so worried about Greta's finger instead of the moon of climate change....... kind of silly really.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 06 Oct 2019, 10:39:12

I got half way through that last sentence, and thought, "When did Greta give someone the finger?" :)

Then I got to the end and remembered my Zen! :)

“I am a finger pointing to the moon. Don’t look at me; look at the moon.”


https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/i-am-a-fin ... -the-moon/
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 18:08:41

Extinction emergency protestors block streets and shut down part of London. Demos also occurring around the world

sorry-this-is-an-emergency-climate-protesters-block-streets-around-the-world-

Blocking random streets and shutting down parts of cities is poor strategy, IMHO. It will just make the general public angry.

The demonstrators would be more effective if they would block off specific targets that are playing a role in climate change, like banks, or government buildings or political campaign headquarters instead of going after the general public.

The demos should be carefully designed to complement Greta's peaceful witnessing against climate change and government inaction.

Image
This street closed due to climate emergency.....

Cheers!
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 08 Oct 2019, 01:54:56

Plantagenet wrote:Extinction emergency protestors block streets and shut down part of London. Demos also occurring around the world

sorry-this-is-an-emergency-climate-protesters-block-streets-around-the-world-

Blocking random streets and shutting down parts of cities is poor strategy, IMHO. It will just make the general public angry.

The demonstrators would be more effective if they would block off specific targets that are playing a role in climate change, like banks, or government buildings or political campaign headquarters instead of going after the general public.

Governments, Chinese and banks must be quietly very happy with these protests.

Governments will use them as an excuse to rise taxes.
Chinese are only eager to take over industrial sectors shut down on the West due to protests.
Banks can smell in the air good lending opportunity, when mobs are adapting to new reality of high FF and electricity prices and are panic investing in Tesla EV, solar PV panels and heat pumps for airconditioning and winter heating.
Such loans (maybe with the exception of these for Teslas) would be a high grade investment type, not simply consumer grade loans.

So there is some good chance of action because large group of powerful entities are likely to benefit of it.
Big oil may be too weak to block it.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 12 Oct 2019, 17:42:41

Its a shame Greta didn’t win the Nobel Peace Prize. But the judges are all Swedish and so is Greta, and its possible Greta isn’t very popular in Sweden because she protested for month after month against the failed climate warming policies of Sweden——something the establishment in Sweden probably didn’t like very much.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 13 Oct 2019, 11:42:33

Personal attack deleted.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 13 Oct 2019, 14:09:06

Part of this thread is that shame is a necessary component of combating climate change. I'm sure Greta would agree as she's not known for her bedside manner. It would do a hell of a lot more than just cockily bashing governments or conveniently going after OTHER polluting behaviors as if to shift blame away from the self.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 13 Oct 2019, 16:34:09

asg70 wrote:Part of this thread is that shame is a necessary component of combating climate change. I'm sure Greta would agree as she's not known for her bedside manner. It would do a hell of a lot more than just cockily bashing governments or conveniently going after OTHER polluting behaviors as if to shift blame away from the self.


Sometimes letting up for awhile allows for someone to digest and update his position. Change comes from within not from someone endlessly hammering away.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:32:30

Plant is more interested in going tit-for-tat in his signature than "updating his position". I don't think there's anything inside there other than an accusative finger pointing outwards.

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 14 Oct 2019, 13:11:45

asg70 wrote:Plant is more interested in going tit-for-tat in his signature than "updating his position". I don't think there's anything inside there other than an accusative finger pointing outwards.


You have to ask yourself then if you believe this why you dont move on. Why ride a dead horse?
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Mon 14 Oct 2019, 16:56:37

Ibon wrote:You have to ask yourself then if you believe this why you dont move on. Why ride a dead horse?


Seems to be a case of projection.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Greta Thunberg's Voyage

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 14 Oct 2019, 18:38:36

The_Toecutter wrote:Seems to be a case of projection.


That's just it. That's my diagnosis of Plant. I just have a pet peeve for those who keep bleating on "do as I say, not as I do."

HALL OF SHAME:
-Short welched on a bet and should be shunned.
-Frequent-flyers should not cry crocodile-tears over climate-change.
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