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Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby aspera » Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:59:22

There is a joy in not constantly having anything you want anytime.

This will be one of the early joys of living with constraints, returning to the bliss of anticipation waiting for the seasons to come around to enjoy produce in season.

Will this work for the intermittency of solar and wind?
Is joy, bliss, and anticipation the antidote to the storage problem?
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 04 Oct 2019, 13:15:45

aspera wrote:
There is a joy in not constantly having anything you want anytime.

This will be one of the early joys of living with constraints, returning to the bliss of anticipation waiting for the seasons to come around to enjoy produce in season.

Will this work for the intermittency of solar and wind?
Is joy, bliss, and anticipation the antidote to the storage problem?


It works for us. We produce 7.6kw hyrdro power. We are intimate with our power and know what each appliance consumes. At breakfast in our restaurant it is not possible to run the toaster, microwave, coffee pot and water boiler all at the same time. We have a herz and voltage meter that all staff are conditioned to watch and monitor as they turn appliances off and on.

When you produce your own power you actually get to know every appliance and get to know the combinations that can work and when you need to space usage. Can't run the washer and dryer during breakfast hour for example.

All of this results in an intimate relationship with the power you consume.

COntrast this with a suburbanite who blindly moves about his day turning appliances on and off and has no deep appreciation or relationship with energy and power.

Yes living within constraints makes you more connected to your consumption. There is constant feedback. This makes you more aware, this enhances appreciation for infrastructure that most take for granted.

It takes you out of mediocrity.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Fri 04 Oct 2019, 13:34:54

There is a joy in not constantly having anything you want anytime.


Yes, like you said , resensitizing is important.

...I'm wondering if you accept the 'studies' that find that the earth is a sphere...


In highschool I like physics because it seemed more "real life" than math. In math and specially in spatial problems I am almost disabled. One teacher once said to me after I completely failed in a spatial test:" do not worry, guys like you could be good in real life to carry furniture and locate it in the room.
How do you know that we do not live in simulation?
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 04 Oct 2019, 13:55:36

Yonnipun wrote:How do you know that we do not live in simulation?


I find no relevancy to this question. We need not to wander or drift into esoteric. The bricks and mortar of our predicament is far more interesting.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Fri 04 Oct 2019, 15:27:41

Ibon wrote:
Yonnipun wrote:How do you know that we do not live in simulation?


I find no relevancy to this question. We need not to wander or drift into esoteric. The bricks and mortar of our predicament is far more interesting.


Just wanted to say to dohboi that I am not sure about anything. All of it could be a simulation. Including round earth.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 06 Oct 2019, 10:57:44

Yes, Buddhists also generally also see the world as illusion, and yet they generally also show deep care for all living creature, and specifically (getting back to the theme of the thread) they avoid eating meat.

Go figure... :)
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sun 06 Oct 2019, 15:32:46

Dohboi, are you full vegan or vegetarian? I can not imagine life without meat because vegetables or wheat never satisfies me. Even eggs do not fully satisfy me although sometimes I eat dozens of them in a day. Something is missing in them. Only full fat milk is comparable to meat. Sometimes I try GOMAD( gallon of milk a day). We are mammals , there is nothing to be ashamed of drinking milk. Dohboi, I like your fanatism to veganism but to me it looks a little bit silly. Too much trouble for almost nothing. If you do not eat meat then someone else eats just more. It is almost comparable to staying voluntarily in celibacy.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 00:02:13

Nobody can eat 50 eggs.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby careinke » Mon 07 Oct 2019, 02:52:27

Ibon wrote:When you grow your own food or raise your own meat you become sensitized to freshness. Think about how much waste there is in shipping fruit and vegetables from the farthest corners of the world so that consumers globally can buy peaches and asparagus 12 months of the year. These products do taste fake, pushed, harvested for transport. They never really satisfy. It is superficial consumption.

Now contrast that with the anticipation of waiting all year for winter to break and seeing those first spears of asparagus rise out of the dirt shortly after the snow melt, the first tree ripened peach in July whose holy sweetness drips down your chin.... how you waited all year for that moment.

There is a joy in not constantly having anything you want anytime.

This will be one of the early joys of living with constraints, returning to the bliss of anticipation waiting for the seasons to come around to enjoy produce in season.


Why wait to start? I have.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 14 Oct 2019, 21:22:45

Yo, are you an idiot, or just a complete nincompoop!! :)

Sorry, but to say that because we are mammals we all naturally have to drink milk throughout our adulthood is just beyond idiotic.

Not vegans I know of are saying that infants should not have mother's milk.

So don't go there. But you do know, of course, that there are tons of mammals that never eat any milk and dairy once they are past that suckling stage, right?

Anyway, to answer your question, I rarely eat meat, but I don't get totally grossed out if I end up eating some in some dish I didn't realize contained it. So no, I am not any kind of 'fanatic,' but thanks for mischaracterizing me. I'm sure you enjoy it when people do that to you, right??

I find myself quite satisfied with lentils, beans, seitan, mushrooms...and if it's your thing, there are more and more products that mimic meat flavor and texture more and more accurately. I've eaten at places that do amazing things with jackfruit, but I haven't used it at home yet.

I work every day with a chef who makes amazing vegan (and occasionally vegetarian 'creamy') soups for my local community that he offers to people for free in a restaurant-like environment. Most guests don't even notice that he never serves meat. Believe me, they walk away satisfied pretty much every time.

Meanwhile, beware...once they are dissatisfied with the profits they are getting from organ harvesting, they will probably start putting the muscle tissue in your next juicy hamburger, if they're not doing it already!

Glories of the free market: human flesh, bones, skin and profit

...by the time a coroner’s investigator was able to examine Jinde’s 70-pound body, the bones from her legs and arms were gone. Also missing were large patches of skin from her back...

OneLegacy, a Southern California human tissue procurement company, had gained access to the body...

The case is one of dozens of death investigations across the country, including more than two dozen in Los Angeles and San Diego counties, that The Times found were complicated or upended when transplantable body parts were taken before a coroner’s autopsy was performed.


https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... -autopsies
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby careinke » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 01:47:35

Cog wrote:Nobody can eat 50 eggs.


Cool Hand Luke can. :roll:
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 14:06:15

Nice one. But don't forget Miss Edie! :lol: 8O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Htj0_4Job8
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 14:21:04

Sorry, but to say that because we are mammals we all naturally have to drink milk throughout our adulthood is just beyond idiotic.


Can You name more bang for the buck product on the market? It is so cheap and so full on nutrients that a person could survive only on milk diet for years. Raw milk contains a small amount of vitamin c. Basically a cow consumes hay and produces a suitable shake for humans. I would say it is a perfect food and very affordable.

Not vegans I know of are saying that infants should not have mother's milk.


Just google a little and you see it for yourself how many cases have been when the children have died because of the idioty of the full vegan parents. Those cases are sad , very sad. It amazes me how some people are so easily brainwashed. I may be a little bit slow in math and physics but nobody could ever scam me out of money or brainwash me about flat earth.

Anyway, to answer your question, I rarely eat meat, but I don't get totally grossed out if I end up eating some in some dish I didn't realize contained it. So no, I am not any kind of 'fanatic,' but thanks for mischaracterizing me. I'm sure you enjoy it when people do that to you, right??


I am sorry if I mischaracterized you but all of your post were almost like written by "full vegan". Good to know that you eat atleast a little bit of meat. I myself also eat fruits and veggies but they never satisfy me as good as a piece of meat does.

I find myself quite satisfied with lentils, beans, seitan, mushrooms...and if it's your thing, there are more and more products that mimic meat flavor and texture more and more accurately. I've eaten at places that do amazing things with jackfruit, but I haven't used it at home yet.


Many of those are tasty . I like beans and mushrooms etc but all of those are hard to digest. Some mushrooms are so full of poisons that it is needed to specially cook them before eating. I eat them because they are tasty.

Glories of the free market: human flesh, bones, skin and profit


I have read a lot about famines in history and eventually human flesh and organs reach to market and nobody even does not raise an eyebrow. Parents are swapping their children because it is easier to eat a neighbour s child.That is a reality and I know it sucks but there is nothing we could do about it.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 15 Oct 2019, 20:45:02

"a cow consumes hay and produces a suitable shake for humans"

Actually, most adult humans are lactose intolerant, so we can chalk this up to yet one more yo idiocy! :-D
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Wed 16 Oct 2019, 02:05:21

dohboi wrote:"a cow consumes hay and produces a suitable shake for humans"

Actually, most adult humans are lactose intolerant, so we can chalk this up to yet one more yo idiocy! :-D


No. Everybody could train their body to consume milk. Step by step introducing milk in small quantities is the key. Even I get diaherra if I have not drunk milk several months or weeks.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 17 Oct 2019, 20:06:59

Yonnipun, that is brilliant: When you can't stomach eating your neighbor, just create a market so you don't know who you are eating!

Our friends had a pig they slaundered. It was actually comforting that we knew who we were eating, but then I never petted nor looked into the eyes of the animal that I ate. I bet billionaire's meat will command a higher market value, don't you think? They will have more meat and fat on the bone, for sure. Then, there will be the 1 percent-ers, sort of like the premium brand.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Fri 18 Oct 2019, 04:07:01

jedrider wrote: They will have more meat and fat on the bone, for sure. Then, there will be the 1 percent-ers, sort of like the premium brand.


Yes of course. Without fat a meat is not complete and you are going to die soon ( rabbit starvation). Fat also gives best bang for the buck when it comes to calories. One gram gives 9kcal , carbs gives only 4kcalors. For example inuits praise the fat and internal organs and most of the muscle meat they ditch to the dogs.
Also I would like to point out that many countries that get their basic calories from vegetables, grains etc, are very poor countries and most of those people are starving. Lack of proper nutrition causes stunted high, not optimal bone structure, lower intellect etc, etc. It is sad but there is nothing we could do about it. The richest countries are those who consume meat a lot.
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