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Degrowth Thread

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 19:22:02

Nothing we have tried has worked. Wonder if we really tried
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 29 Mar 2019, 20:01:12

onlooker wrote:Nothing we have tried has worked. Wonder if we really tried
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/03/28 ... ied-works/


We are not hurling ourselves toward extinction. Just toward an inflection point that will hurt.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 30 Mar 2019, 02:30:16

There are those among us who would blame economic systems, government theories/practices, politics, or any number of other "things that we do" for the fatal conumdrum we find ourselves in. There really is no point to further debate on such topics, none of which have been, are, or will be helpfull to resolve our fate, human condition, or however you want to express it.

Humans are the biggest success story that Nature ever concocted. We reproduced to the limits, consumed to the limits, took every resource to 100%, and did not stop, are not stopping, and will not stop doing what comes "natural", not ever.

You got some kind of problem with success, do you, Bubba?
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 24 Apr 2019, 06:34:01

Columbia town rejects gold mine. My DIL is from central Columbia.

Around 98 percent of the residents in Cajamarca said no to the mine due to concerns over the environment and water pollution – and Colombian Mining Minister German Arce doesn’t seem too happy with the results.

South African company AngloGold Ashanti aimed to build the gold mine, called La Colosa, in Central Colombia, and it could have been the biggest gold mine in South America. The national government was in favor of La Colosa, saying mining is vital as they recover from war with Marxist rebels. But residents of Cajamarca, where the mine would be located, overwhelmingly rejected the project in a recent referendum. According to the BBC, 19,000 people live in the town, and only 76 locals voted in favor of the gold mine while 6,100 voted against.


http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2017/04/co ... MlJzU8&m=1

The referendum throws into doubt South African miner AngloGold Ashanti ’s proposal for one of the world’s largest open-pit excavations—more than twice the size of Central Park—along with Colombia’s embrace of the role of multinationals to advance remote regions once torn by decades of violence.

Three other towns rich in minerals now say they will replicate Cajamarca’s anti-mining campaign and referendum. The national government is playing down the impact of Sunday’s vote, but the stage is set for legal battles that will likely play out across Colombia’s multiple, competing courts.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.co ... 1490952620
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 May 2019, 14:27:10

Vtsnowedin came up with the idea of taxing robots some time ago. I’m starting to think that’s a great idea. What really got me considering it was hearing how Japan is trying to deal with a shrinking population. Shrinking population shrinks the taxable working base.

However if we shift the tax from being in the PERSON as the base of production to the DEVICE that is creating the production then we can still have an expanding tax base in the face of a decreasing population.

Strikes me that this would go a long way to stabilizing our population, putting an end to immigration, plus creating a more fair economy.

Thoughts?
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 02 Jun 2019, 10:46:23

Excellent article in the need for degrowth.

To understand you are in a prison, you must first be able to see the bars. That this prison was created by humans over many generations doesn’t change the conclusion that we are currently tightly bound up within a system that could, if we do not act, lead to the impoverishment, and even death of billions of people.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.invers ... chnosphere
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 08:19:51

When you read these forecasts of dire consequences and climate scientists stating that they are horrified by whats coming this does indeed invoke, as the author of that piece mentioned , a certain apathy among the ignorant and a sort of paralysis among the better informed.

This is exactly the way we are collectively imprisoned and this is by definition what happens to a species at the peak of overshoot, imprisoned and subjected to all the very consequences that are the solution.

In reality, this paralysis is perfectly matched with where we need to be. It's a bit of a existential dilemma but if you deeply understand the process you embrace it.

Every dire consequence is the solution, from flooding coast lines to crop failures and tropical diseases spreading north to resource wars and all the rest.

You can either contemplate this with horror as the author suggested..... or

I personally view this a bit differently, with a sense of relief, finally the kudzu ape juggernaut meets its master.

Every sense of frustration that you have regarding the collective dilemma of climate change and all the other myriad consequences of human overshoot are resolved in the very consequences. Only cowards really should view this with horror. Or individuals plagued with displaced compassion. 7 billion humans in this technosphere the author mentioned are not in my humble opinion deserving of very much compassion. This is certainly the view of an Orangutan looking from the remnant canopy at the vast monoculture of oil palms in Sumatra for example.

These are times where one chooses where to compartmentalize ones compassion. To ones nation, community or tribe or down to ones family. Again, I take another view... For me compassion is focused and compartmentalized on the rest of the community of life, all the flora and fauna that is waiting on the sidelines to recolonize former human habitat as we recede.

Kudzu Apes be damned by their own hubris and collective arrogance. I see no reason for compassion. I see only reasons for consequences to act as agents to bring humans back into the fold of being balanced members of the community of life on the planet. You know, all that which we ultimately wish for.


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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 11:09:40

Ibon,

Google an app called “We Croak”, I know it works in iPhone, maybe Android as well. You may appreciate it.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 03 Jun 2019, 12:52:42

Newfie wrote:Ibon,

Google an app called “We Croak”, I know it works in iPhone, maybe Android as well. You may appreciate it.


I did on my andriod phone. Interesting.......
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 09 Jun 2019, 10:45:13

Here is a nicely thought out article debunking “green development.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opini ... 20654.html
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby wildbourgman » Sun 09 Jun 2019, 12:44:14

Newfie wrote: by Newfie » Sun 09 Jun 2019, 10:45:13


I'm not a big fan of the article or the faux green development it's railing against.

If you want some de-growth how about reduce government intrusion that promotes inefficiency and market distortions. For instance don't bail out anyone during the next economic collapse. Stop both corporate and social welfare programs. How about realizing that Survival of the fittest applies to all life and systems. True Free Market Capitalism does not have to grow to survive, failure and reset is part of capitalism and nature. The system some people call capitalism today is one that's very blended with government and demands growth for survival, but doesn't allow the reset that comes from feeling economic pain.

Earlier Kaiser said we are a success story, but maybe our success is similar to the Kudsu plant as Ibon states. Is our success killing us ?
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 09 Jun 2019, 13:37:04

Newfie wrote:Ibon,

Google an app called “We Croak”, I know it works in iPhone, maybe Android as well. You may appreciate it.


I am enjoying the daily reminders coming in on that app
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 09 Jun 2019, 17:15:59

". Is our success killing us ?" You can judge our Geo-political economic system a success ONLY if you discount the vast majority left behind and the grim prospects for the future for our species. Earlier I posted an article that intimated we may go extinct. Well, even if we don't, it is not comforting to know what a resounding fall we will almost certainly take in our development . Or the great death and suffering that will ensue. I do not envision much modernity left after all is said and done.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 07:56:26

Had an interesting discussion with a Norwegian guy last night. He related that he tried to discuss degrowth with a near relative who is a professional economist (BIL or some such).

This professional economist had never heard of degrowth and was just absolutely sure the only way the economy could function was with eternal growth.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 08:00:10

Newfie wrote:Had an interesting discussion with a Norwegian guy last night. He related that he tried to discuss degrowth with a near relative who is a professional economist (BIL or some such).

This professional economist had never heard of degrowth and was just absolutely sure the only way the economy could function was with eternal growth.



Hamsters running on the wheel with the off switch broken.

It seems to really be true that running out of fuel is the only thing that will shut down this juggernaut.

This only reinforces that solutions will come external of human agency.
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Re: Degrowth Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:32:20

I still think the financial system is most vulnerable, will collapse first. Can’t prove it, just gut.
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