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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 11:00:01

The foundation behind the transition is already being laid into place whether doomers want to recognize it or not. The situation is quite different from what it was back in the Who Killed the Electric Car days. Even if the automakers need to rush EVs to market in an oil crisis situation I think they will be able to do that, and the longer the status quo continues, the more prepared they will be.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt .9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:21:09

Cog wrote:By the way the "Green" French president Macron just suspended his tax increase on diesel fuels. I guess he didn't care for the riots that ensued.

I had been seeing news about the riots. I was curious about the size of the fuel tax increase.

The first article I saw from a credible source (Reuters) shows that it's not just the fuel tax that has people outside the cities angry. It looks like he also scrapped a wealth tax and increased a social welfare tax. So all three of these things are likely to anger the (self-perceived) have-nots against the haves.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fran ... SKCN1NY248

The Guardian says the proposed fuel tax increase was for 4 euro cents more a litre starting in Jan. Elsewhere I saw a mention of other increases planned over time. Apparently France's fuel taxes are roughly 60% already, which is roughly in the middle of the range for Western Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... or-thought

...

It seems to me that if they want to get an indication of how much just gradually raising the diesel tax upsets people, they need to JUST GRADUALLY raise the diesel tax, instead of doing multiple things at the same time, which will all obviously anger a lot of voters.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:33:41

Fuel taxes, all governments are doing it wrong, screwing the motorists is not the right way to do it.
What they should be doing is to have a high tax on those cars when they're bought new, actively discourage people from buying the gas guzzlers in the first place. Once a car is several years old, it's the lower income second/third hand owners who struggle to to pay for the fuel.

This proposed tax rise comes not long after another such rise that has already angered to population, other government actions could spark a complete overthrow of the government if they don't back down.

France has just experienced a near general strike, similar to one that happened in the UK about 15 years ago, after which the government left fuel taxes alone.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:51:03

dolanbaker wrote:Fuel taxes, all governments are doing it wrong, screwing the motorists is not the right way to do it.
What they should be doing is to have a high tax on those cars when they're bought new, actively discourage people from buying the gas guzzlers in the first place. Once a car is several years old, it's the lower income second/third hand owners who struggle to to pay for the fuel.

This proposed tax rise comes not long after another such rise that has already angered to population, other government actions could spark a complete overthrow of the government if they don't back down.

France has just experienced a near general strike, similar to one that happened in the UK about 15 years ago, after which the government left fuel taxes alone.

I respectfully submit that you're half right. Having a large gas guzzler tax on new vehicles that aren't efficient (and a smaller such tax on middling vehicles) would be a great incentive for people purchasing more fuel efficient vehicles.

However, having NO meaningful CO2 tax on fossile transport fuels means that people don't pay any consequence for driving gas guzzlers once they're used.

For example, that means anyone (wealthy or not) who wants to drive a giant truck or SUV, etc. could just buy a good 3 year old used car with low miles, and drive it lots until it wears out -- paying NO CO2 taxes on that fuel. (And such cars today are often better than a new car was a decade or two ago, so aside from preeners, buying such cars isn't giving up much).
That is exactly the opposite of a policy to incent people not to drive such vehicles, and drive them a lot.

If middle class people and below are struggling to pay for fuel, that should be all the more incentive for them to drive a very efficient vehicle, or take public transport, bike, walk, etc.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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