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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 11:00:01

The foundation behind the transition is already being laid into place whether doomers want to recognize it or not. The situation is quite different from what it was back in the Who Killed the Electric Car days. Even if the automakers need to rush EVs to market in an oil crisis situation I think they will be able to do that, and the longer the status quo continues, the more prepared they will be.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt .9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:21:09

Cog wrote:By the way the "Green" French president Macron just suspended his tax increase on diesel fuels. I guess he didn't care for the riots that ensued.

I had been seeing news about the riots. I was curious about the size of the fuel tax increase.

The first article I saw from a credible source (Reuters) shows that it's not just the fuel tax that has people outside the cities angry. It looks like he also scrapped a wealth tax and increased a social welfare tax. So all three of these things are likely to anger the (self-perceived) have-nots against the haves.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fran ... SKCN1NY248

The Guardian says the proposed fuel tax increase was for 4 euro cents more a litre starting in Jan. Elsewhere I saw a mention of other increases planned over time. Apparently France's fuel taxes are roughly 60% already, which is roughly in the middle of the range for Western Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... or-thought

...

It seems to me that if they want to get an indication of how much just gradually raising the diesel tax upsets people, they need to JUST GRADUALLY raise the diesel tax, instead of doing multiple things at the same time, which will all obviously anger a lot of voters.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby dolanbaker » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:33:41

Fuel taxes, all governments are doing it wrong, screwing the motorists is not the right way to do it.
What they should be doing is to have a high tax on those cars when they're bought new, actively discourage people from buying the gas guzzlers in the first place. Once a car is several years old, it's the lower income second/third hand owners who struggle to to pay for the fuel.

This proposed tax rise comes not long after another such rise that has already angered to population, other government actions could spark a complete overthrow of the government if they don't back down.

France has just experienced a near general strike, similar to one that happened in the UK about 15 years ago, after which the government left fuel taxes alone.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 04 Dec 2018, 15:51:03

dolanbaker wrote:Fuel taxes, all governments are doing it wrong, screwing the motorists is not the right way to do it.
What they should be doing is to have a high tax on those cars when they're bought new, actively discourage people from buying the gas guzzlers in the first place. Once a car is several years old, it's the lower income second/third hand owners who struggle to to pay for the fuel.

This proposed tax rise comes not long after another such rise that has already angered to population, other government actions could spark a complete overthrow of the government if they don't back down.

France has just experienced a near general strike, similar to one that happened in the UK about 15 years ago, after which the government left fuel taxes alone.

I respectfully submit that you're half right. Having a large gas guzzler tax on new vehicles that aren't efficient (and a smaller such tax on middling vehicles) would be a great incentive for people purchasing more fuel efficient vehicles.

However, having NO meaningful CO2 tax on fossile transport fuels means that people don't pay any consequence for driving gas guzzlers once they're used.

For example, that means anyone (wealthy or not) who wants to drive a giant truck or SUV, etc. could just buy a good 3 year old used car with low miles, and drive it lots until it wears out -- paying NO CO2 taxes on that fuel. (And such cars today are often better than a new car was a decade or two ago, so aside from preeners, buying such cars isn't giving up much).
That is exactly the opposite of a policy to incent people not to drive such vehicles, and drive them a lot.

If middle class people and below are struggling to pay for fuel, that should be all the more incentive for them to drive a very efficient vehicle, or take public transport, bike, walk, etc.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 22 Dec 2018, 12:28:28

Congrats on your new Model 3. Sounds like a wonderful car.

Apparently the average Model 3 buyer is paying ca. $60,000 for the car, Elon Musk's promise to bring the Model 3 to market for a price of ca. $35,000 notwithstanding.

tesla-model-3-average-selling-price-asp-59300-surveys-find

There is some concern that TESLA and its high priced cars will have big problems in the coming recession, but with loyal supporters like yourself I'm sure they'll come out OK.

Again, CONGRATULATIONS!
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 22 Dec 2018, 13:38:45

I take it you qualified for the full Federal tax rebate by taking delivery in 2018 of a 2019 model?

I like the color. My first Jeep Wrangler, a 1997 4-cylinder model that I gave to my kid when she graduated, was very similar, Chrysler called it "Patriot Blue".
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 22 Dec 2018, 23:18:44

Congrats on your Model 3 Baha. I hope the car works out great for you.

As a Tesla watcher, I wonder what the service experience will be like for those who aren't in blue states.

I see there are three Tesla service centers in NC, at least according to this Tesla page. Two in Raleigh, and one in Charlotte.

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/servi ... d%20States

I just wondered whether you plan on using the mobile service (and if it is available in NC), a NC service center, or do it yourself, since you have expertise on electric batteries, etc.

...

I'm looking forward to a variety of BEV offerings from various mainstream car companies in the next several years. Lots of consumer choice would seem like the best thing to ensure one can get good service, at least to me.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 22 Dec 2018, 23:24:12

baha wrote:We used a Supercharger today just for fun. It charged at 130 mph. I have read that when the battery is low it can charge at 380 mph at the newest chargers. That is a full charge in less than hour. Just enough time for PIzza :)

I've read about battery issues with fast charging. And Tesla slowing down the fastest allowable charge rate for Model S users who use lots of fast charging (at superchargers), to preserve the battery life.

I don't know if the newer batter chemistries will alleviate that for very fast charging rates or not.

Probably not an issue if you do mostly home charging -- I'm just thinking people shouldn't just assume they can charge willy-nilly at the fastest supercharging speed they can find all the time, unless they're sure their battery can handle it.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 23 Dec 2018, 00:35:22

I don't begrudge anyone from buying a Model 3 but the value proposition still isn't there, even with the new "medium range" model they cooked up to keep punting the standard-range into the future. It's still a high-end car. Also, the quality control and reliability on Teslas is a chronic issue which fanbois keep saying is getting better but really isn't anywhere near where it should be for cars in this pricerange. So expect the excitement bubble to deflate as you begin to grapple with issues.

I really think the Hyundai Kona and Kia e-Niro are the smart buys if you can get them, and if VW follows through with ID line, I see them sweeping the floor with Tesla due to their greater manufacturing capability and dealer network.
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"this is peak now. Wanna bet? The Real Pain starts . . . now." (11/21/18)" --pstarr
"$0/barrel soon as per etp." (12/30/18)" --pstarr
ATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 23 Dec 2018, 10:53:44

"I am proud to drive a car built by my neighbors. Maybe you'd like to move to Korea"

I don't believe in judging products on a sliding scale purely due to country of origin.

I also feel that now that you're (study your vs. you're btw) a Tesla owner that you have a vested interest in defending your decision and avoiding the humiliation of buyer's remorse. All you have to do is peruse the Tesla forums to see that phenomenon on display where people report things like rear windshields splitting in half or complete drive unit failures (sometimes on the way home from the delivery center) and still at the end of it proclaim their loyalty. They seem to be gluttons for punishment.

No amount of patriotism will compel me to tolerate that sort of BS.
EXTREME PREDICTION LEADERBOARD
"this is peak now. Wanna bet? The Real Pain starts . . . now." (11/21/18)" --pstarr
"$0/barrel soon as per etp." (12/30/18)" --pstarr
ATTN: SHORT LOST A BET AND WON'T EVEN ADMIT HE MADE ONE. HE SHOULD NOT BE WELCOME HERE!!!
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby GHung » Mon 24 Dec 2018, 13:20:35

Everything That's Wrong With My Tesla Model 3 - Quality Problems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLTNjGI8hw

I Bought A Tesla Model 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfIjMxyg00o
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 26 Dec 2018, 17:55:11

baha wrote:Do keep in mind. Guilt does not come in degrees. You are guilty or your not. It doesn't matter whether you fly around in jet planes or drive an ICE vehicle...your still guilty. :x

With respect, if it didn't matter how much CO2 you produce, then the whole issue re AGW would be a non-issue.

Clearly producing less is better. Clearly we will all produce some, just by living. So I just have to completely disagree with your idea that (re AGW), guilt doesn't come in degrees.

Your vs. you're. Education matters. Lack of education is a big reason science denial (and the many problems stemming from that) is so popular in the US.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby GHung » Mon 31 Dec 2018, 11:50:03

baha wrote:Ha ha...Ur both wrong! Gotta keep up with the times, Dudes :)


Who's "both wrong'? I was wrong to post someone's review of their new Model 3?
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby Pops » Mon 31 Dec 2018, 11:54:51

baha wrote:Ha ha...Ur both wrong! Gotta keep up with the times, Dudes :)

Found the solution to that "your vs you're" problem, kudos.
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Re: EVs are just better!

Unread postby dolanbaker » Mon 31 Dec 2018, 14:52:02

Pops wrote:
baha wrote:Ha ha...Ur both wrong! Gotta keep up with the times, Dudes :)

Found the solution to that "your vs you're" problem, kudos.
:lol:

I like your thought process and you're correct of course. :)

As for EVs, I'd buy one this year if I had the money, but I will get one sometime in the near future.
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