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When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 09:06:58

Ibon, understand that your way of dealing with something that you cannot process is to deny it. You do so by retreating to your cloud forest, where reality isn't in your face all day, every day.

Well, guess what. Your retreat will not save you or the people around you. Nor will your beliefs about culture and organic communities save you or even shield you temporarily from the hardships to come.

Remember my prior remark that the Amish, how they do not partake of the Internet, but would starve without it. Think about your own home and what it would be like with no purchased food, fuel, medicines, or for that matter, anything else. Think about no tourists and no income from them, but continuing expenses, for vanishing and ever-more-expensive goods.

I remember your self-imposed exile from this Forum. I now point out that you are in full retreat from the rest of the world for ten months of the year.

Not that I don't retreat myself, from time to time. The wife and I weary of working our way through the long list of things the realtor says are required to sell this place for top dollar. But hey, I am in the world for 11 months, and in retreat for one.

I am focussed on long term goals, preserving as much of my earnings as possible for the grandkids and eventually their grandkids. I sort of thought that you were doing the same. We do disagree about one thing, pretty clearly. You believe that survival is most likely in what you call organic communities, simple in nature, but marginal in their ability to support humans. I think the communities best prepared to survive slim rations are where the people are the fattest. But there is bone-chilling violence coming in both places. You can harden your heart now or over the graves of your family and friends.

BTW, Trump is irrelevent, a huckster. What dooms all of us is our collective desires. You denying yourself anything affects the Earth by a miniscule amount, amongst 7.7 billion others.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 09:13:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 09:10:59

KaiserJeep wrote:.... blah, blau, blah

GHung, go on denying the impacts of Peak Oil if it makes you feel better.


When have I ever denied the impacts of peak oil? I've been prepping for that and general decline for almost 30 years. Indeed, if you think closing our borders will have any effect at all on those impacts, it would be you who doesn't grok peak oil and economic collapse. I suggest you get local about your views on peak oil and quit advocating the use of my tax dollars to pay others to do your dirty work while endorsing Trump's ridiculous political ploys. Meanwhile, study history, walls, and mass migrations. Or maybe what happened to Rome when it got to the point it couldn't pay it's soldiers to protect its borders.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 10:08:23

Cog wrote:Of course you are happy to be out of the USA Ibon. You cashed out because capitalism worked for you. You don't care anymore about America. You said you want 20 million more illegals to come here. Course, once you have destroyed America, the reservations to your jungle plantation is apt to fall off.


Everything you said is true except for the part that I don't care about America.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 10:12:56

KaiserJeep wrote:
I am focussed on long term goals, preserving as much of my earnings as possible for the grandkids and eventually their grandkids. I sort of thought that you were doing the same.


This may come as a surprise to you. I am doing nothing to secure my survival, I am not interested in playing the whole rat in the hole defensive strategy obsessing over which card in the house of cards is going to fall first.

I live like the tree at the edge of the cliff whose canopy extending over the edge is destined to one day get so top heavy that it will tip over and perish. Every single day up until that moment that tree flowers, exists, grows, in complete harmony with the nature around it. There is no anxiety no wasted time pondering the inevitable.

I am here 100% for the joy it provides here and now, this moment. The rest is all a bullshit story.

Get your heads out of your doom asses folks and don't be so vulnerable to the fear machine that is masterfully manipulating you.

Go Live damn it.

What a bunch of spineless cowards around here. GEEEZ !
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Revi » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 10:24:59

I hope it doesn't really get going for a few years. Hard to tell, but a few droughts and starving whole countries like SA is doing to Yemen and it may get the ball rolling. It would be nice if it didn't get going in my lifetime, but it looks like it's starting up sooner than that...
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 10:38:14

Ibon wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:
I am focussed on long term goals, preserving as much of my earnings as possible for the grandkids and eventually their grandkids. I sort of thought that you were doing the same.


This may come as a surprise to you. I am doing nothing to secure my survival, I am not interested in playing the whole rat in the hole defensive strategy obsessing over which card in the house of cards is going to fall first.

I live like the tree at the edge of the cliff whose canopy extending over the edge is destined to one day get so top heavy that it will tip over and perish. Every single day up until that moment that tree flowers, exists, grows, in complete harmony with the nature around it. There is no anxiety no wasted time pondering the inevitable.

I am here 100% for the joy it provides here and now, this moment. The rest is all a bullshit story.

Get your heads out of your doom asses folks and don't be so vulnerable to the fear machine that is masterfully manipulating you.

Go Live damn it.

What a bunch of spineless cowards around here. GEEEZ !


You are able to live that way (as am I, in some sense) because you made choices in the past that allow it. You aren't all in for BAU as so many here seemed to be; locked into things as they are. I am able to live a quiet low-stress life because I made choices including not being completely dependent on complex systems, on wealth that only exists in computers, on energy that comes from somewhere else (besides sunlight and firewood from mere meters away), and on food that traveled thousands of miles dependent upon complex systems...

I don't dwell on decline, collapse, peak oil, all that, too much because I've done what I could to be more resilient and have kept things simple; local.

Positioning one's self well within systems doomed to fail is a poor position to be in. KJ's grandkids would be better off learning to chop wood, grow food, bake bread, and tempering their expectations/needs.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 10:54:12

Ibon wrote:
Newfie wrote: The challenge for all of us is to try to understand the other guy, where is he coming from, what is his situation.


No the challenge is not the other guy. He is doing just fine. The challenge is to get your heads out of the media and digital media, work on recreating your organic community which has been eroded in the USA. Rural areas especially. Suburbia also. We no longer have organic community in the USA. The barber down the street, the pharmacists, the diner, those places where people of different views and politics come together. That has eroded away, replaced by bullshit digital media and cable news.

Your organic community is the buffer against extremism and it is no longer in place. That is why extremism is left to run both on the right and the left. Actually especially in rural areas. And of course the most effective puppet master I have witnessed in my lifetime, Trump, who milks and milks and milks masterfully the grievances.

Here in rural Panama the organic community is still intact. There is no polarization, folks are still moving in the rhythms of real organic exchanges with each other. Rural agrarian communities here are still intact. There is no long lonely drives through hallowed out main street to pull into the parking lot of a Wallmart.

I have brought this up before.... when do we reach peak divisiveness. When is the shelf life of stoking grievances expire? When does the collective grow weary of constant negative hysteria and desire to pull together toward unity? Are we anywhere near there yet? Or do we still have a long road before peak polarity is reached?

I am so happy to not be in the USA right now frankly. I want no part of this hysteria. From afar it looks completely insane.


Ibon,

Perhaps your challenge is to read what others say. You seem stuck in your narrative. There is little point discussing when you so distort my words.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 11:17:03

Give him a day or two. I think he does read what you say, and prefers to process things before he replies. The only thing we seem to be disagreeing about is what sort of society we live among. He has a perfect right to reject mainstream American culture, and even the right to delude himself on how dependant he is upon it.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 11:21:57

KaiserJeep wrote:Give him a day or two. I think he does read what you say, and prefers to process things before he replies. The only thing we seem to be disagreeing about is what sort of society we live among. He has a perfect right to reject mainstream American culture, and even the right to delude himself on how dependant he is upon it.


Yup, probably correct. And I’m not even sure we are disagreeing about what kind of society the USA is. The question is more about the resilience of some to adapt.

None the less an interesting discussion with some challenging ideas.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 16:41:51

Highly interesting conversation guys. I personally resonate with what Ibon is saying. I thought all of us here had conquered our fears about what the future has in store. And that is why we can confront in discourse this future.

But it seems, that fear and anxiety grips some of you. That is no way to live under any future scenario. You can live for the moment and still have an eye on the future. Life has never offered us humans guarantees. Humans have and will always wrestle with fear but letting fear consume one is a recipe for a mental breakdown
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 17:04:56

Onlooker,

Be specific, who are you talking about? Because I sure don’t see me or KJ in your picture.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 19:04:53

Newfie wrote:Onlooker,

Be specific, who are you talking about? Because I sure don’t see me or KJ in your picture.

Okay, specifically I sense this "fear" in Cog and Kaiser. Cog has his guns and that sense xenophobia related to the "others, in this case immigrants. And Kaiser has his illusions or delusions of merging with the AI and going forth into the Cosmos.
Look, I respect very much all the regular posters here. You are articulate and all of you seem very honorable. So, I think we can speak frankly to each other without hard feelings
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 19:48:07

Frankly and without hard feelings, well we can try!

I think it helps to realize that by any “normal” standards none of us here are normal. We are all more than a half bubble off center. It’s why it works.

The reason I asked is to try to understand who you were pointing your comments towards. To see if I was following the conversation.

Look, what we are trying it do, having difficult conversations in writing, is damn hard. We need to listen to each other empathetically, we need to really try to understand. Some of us are better than others. It’s why I get pissed at the one liner zings, even though I succumb to the temptation myself occasionally.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 20:24:30

Newfie wrote:Frankly and without hard feelings, well we can try!

I think it helps to realize that by any “normal” standards none of us here are normal. We are all more than a half bubble off center. It’s why it works.

The reason I asked is to try to understand who you were pointing your comments towards. To see if I was following the conversation.

Look, what we are trying it do, having difficult conversations in writing, is damn hard. We need to listen to each other empathetically, we need to really try to understand. Some of us are better than others. It’s why I get pissed at the one liner zings, even though I succumb to the temptation myself occasionally.


I appreciate all of that but there is also the point of shaking things up a bit. And questioning many of our assumptions. We are in a bit of a bubble here and yes we are all a bit odd, I do agree, and we probably would actually like and respect each other if we were all in same room. I think Cog and I could amuse each other with some pretty raunchy jokes actually, some I would have to translate from Spanish........ except for Onlooker.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 08 Nov 2018, 07:26:11

Gracias Ibon. La politica me aburre. Y todas las intrigas de asuntos tan polarizados entre la derecha y izquierda. Cuando lo que siempre ha sido tan importante es unirlos como una
familia y especie. Y reconocer el tremendo impacto que la humanidad puede tener y ha tenido sobre el planeta.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 4

Unread postby Ibon » Thu 08 Nov 2018, 08:16:57

onlooker wrote:Gracias Ibon. La politica me aburre. Y todas las intrigas de asuntos tan polarizados entre la derecha y izquierda. Cuando lo que siempre ha sido tan importante es unirlos como una
familia y especie. Y reconocer el tremendo impacto que la humanidad puede tener y ha tenido sobre el planeta.



Mucho miedo en la sociedad sobre amenazas, algunos real, otros inventados. Resulta en una sociedad defensiva y desconfiado. Cuando amenazas vuelvan de realizarse en eventos reales esto es cuando veremos la posibilidad de una sociedad mas unidos. Mientastanto somos como conejos mirando constantemente al cielo esperando rapaces o que atras cada piedra nos espera una culebra.

El depredador mas poderoso actuando tan histerico. Porque?
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