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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 22:50:14

Enough quadricycle silliness. Back to REAL news. Here's the first interview I've seen with the guy leading Electrify America's fast-charging network in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub22gyybWhg
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 04 Nov 2018, 23:58:02

asg70 wrote:Enough quadricycle silliness. Back to REAL news. Here's the first interview I've seen with the guy leading Electrify America's fast-charging network in the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub22gyybWhg

Same deal i offered some other d#ck troll: $1,000 says peak called before the end of 2019? You in?
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 05:16:58

What source are you going to use for total global production for 2018 and 2019? I'm guessing you are referring to just crude oil and not corn liquor.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby baha » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 07:29:09

asg70 wrote:Here's the first interview I've seen with the guy leading Electrify America's fast-charging network in the US:


That's cool...They need to get with it. My wife and I were talking about charger networks this weekend as we drove to the Blue Ridge Parkway to go camping. Can we do this with an EV? If I build an electric VW I won't have access to the Tesla network. So I did a few calculations.

It was 230 miles to the campsite. We camp primitive but there are real campgrounds nearby. If we stayed in a electric site with a 50 Amp/ 240vac outlet we could recharge in about 5 hours. If they only had a 30 Amp/ 120vac it would take 16.6 hours. So we could camp there one night and then wander into the wilderness the next night. And then go downhill all the way home :) I lose 4000' of elevation driving home.

That's without stopping for gas at all...I stopped twice in my van. Going and coming. And spent about $50. But it's going to look funny when we roll into the campground, set up our tent next to the 40' RVs with slideouts, and plug in our car :)
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 10:43:46

Cog wrote:What source are you going to use for total global production for 2018 and 2019? I'm guessing you are referring to just crude oil and not corn liquor.

Off topic.

You already ran from the same bet. If you include me in your signature like asgy, I will raise it to $1,500. On? Then we can discuss details. BTW, as per our original bet . . . you set it up. Collateral and all
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 10:52:34

Baha, don't forget the basics.

A charging station that recharges from the (78% FF-powered) grid is simply moving pollution from a car exhaust to a FF power plant. A solar charging kiosk is no good at night, when most BEVs need daily recharging. Battery storage for rechargers increases costs so much that (considering overall lifecycle costs) a simple small fuel-efficient car harms the environment the least today.

Yes, I understand that times are changing, ever so slowly. But an Advocate pretty much blinds himself more than anyone else.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 13:24:02

pstarr wrote:Same deal i offered some other d#ck troll: $1,000 says peak called before the end of 2019? You in?
...
Off topic.


First, you're the one who is off-topic inserting peak-oil bets into an EV thread.
Second, given that you are the ideological twin of Short, the odds of you covering a bet are slim to none.

Thirdly, when was the last time you had something useful to contribute here?

Image
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Cog » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 15:40:24

pstarr wrote:
Cog wrote:What source are you going to use for total global production for 2018 and 2019? I'm guessing you are referring to just crude oil and not corn liquor.

Off topic.

You already ran from the same bet. If you include me in your signature like asgy, I will raise it to $1,500. On? Then we can discuss details. BTW, as per our original bet . . . you set it up. Collateral and all



Yes this is off topic but in order to consider wagering with you, I need to know from what source of total global production for 2018 and 2019 that we are basing this wager on. If I am satisfied it's a legit based site, I will consider making the wager with you and escrow the money for it.

What I'm saying Pete is we need to agree on a source for total gobal oil production for 2018 and 2019 before we lock in the wager. That way there is no quibbling and argument like with shorty.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 05 Nov 2018, 22:33:58

KaiserJeep wrote:Baha, don't forget the basics.

A charging station that recharges from the (78% FF-powered) grid is simply moving pollution from a car exhaust to a FF power plant.

Using actual data instead of intuition, for the US, BEV's are generally produce less CO2 vs. ICE vehicles over their useful life by a LOT. An exception is WV, where they use almost all coal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby baha » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 05:27:43

You're right KJ, this is a compromise.

But I'm not blind...I'm focused. I have to take this one step at a time. First I get the EV and then I drive it to the state congress and lobby for clean energy. We have nuke plants to charge from but I have a better idea :)

I think I will work Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. So I can charge from solar on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. If the sun doesn't shine I'll stay home.

That's the best plan I ever came up with :)
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 07:59:18

baha wrote:You're right KJ, this is a compromise.

But I'm not blind...I'm focused. I have to take this one step at a time.


That is exactly how humans will move through the ecological bottleneck of overshoot. One step at a time. That is also exactly why it is foolish to be constantly stressed out over the impossibility of resolving our dilemma. It resolves itself through the slow grinding process of one step at a time.

Obsessing over human overshoot leads to paralysis.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 12:44:27

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Baha, don't forget the basics.

A charging station that recharges from the (78% FF-powered) grid is simply moving pollution from a car exhaust to a FF power plant.

Using actual data instead of intuition, for the US, BEV's are generally produce less CO2 vs. ICE vehicles over their useful life by a LOT. An exception is WV, where they use almost all coal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM


OS, let me take a wild guess that you live in an urban area. Because the problem is that the (totally defective) argument in the above video was made by an urban dweller and not a realist. That you found his argument credible is why I am guessing that you also live in a city.

First of all, throughout this entire video, he used the word "car". A car is DEFINATELY NOT the typical road vehicle, in fact the most popular vehicle in the USA is the Ford F-150 medium-sized pickup truck, and the extended cab, 2-bench-seat models of this vehicle are quite numerous as well. The second and third and fourth most popular vehicles are also pickup trucks from GM, Dodge, and Toyota, and again large multiple seat versions are popular. Then we begin with the SUVs. As a matter of fact, only one single "car" exists within the "Top Ten" most popular vehicles, and that is the Toyota Camry, classed as an intermediate sedan. Small cars and BEVs are WAY DOWN that popularity list, which any resident of the country or even the suburbs would understand.

Which is why I was carefull to use the words "a simple small fuel-efficient car" when I described the vehicle that was less harmful to the environment than the typical BEV. I was careful to make apples-to-apples comparisons, which the above analysis was not. His figures included weighted fuel consumption averages for pickup trucks, SUVs, minivans, and large/intermediate/small cars, plus Hybrids (which far outnumber BEVs). We won't even talk about the RVs and the 6.8-liter diesel tow vehicles for boats and trailers and other toys, which also get used for commuting to work.

Things are never so simple when one discusses averages, either. I have said before that about 80-90% of all the BEVs are in California, which is true, and that this state also produces far more green energy for our power grid than the nearest competitor, which is completely true. But it's also true that all four of the (probably illegal) Latinos who are landscaping my home are driving large contractor-style diesel pickup trucks, almost new and probably not paid for yet, and I'm sure I don't want to know whether or not they have legal registrations or insurance in this "sanctuary" state/county/city, as it would only depress me. Multiply the four of them by another four million, and you begin to see the problem with all the statistics we are throwing at one another.

Thats the great thing about numbers and the Internet. You can find useless numerical support of any argument you want to make. In fact, if everybody were driving EITHER the BEVs you favor or the "a simple small fuel-efficient car" I was comparing those BEVs to, we would be a lot better off than we are. Because niether of those vehicles are typical of what one actually finds on the roads today.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby baha » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 17:33:31

The take away I got from that video is EVs are more environmentally friendly than ICEs. End of story...EV Trucks will be that much better than ICE trucks.

I would look cool pulling into the campground in this.

tesla camper.jpeg
tesla camper.jpeg (5.65 KiB) Viewed 2273 times
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The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.
I will see your google and raise you an infinity!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 06 Nov 2018, 19:29:32

Based on the price of the Tesla Model S sporty sedan ($130,000), the Tesla camper if it ever ships will cost over $1M. Just like the average Model 3 is $80K, when he said he was gonna make a $30K affordable car.

I have several times seen electric semi truck prototypes here in Silly Valley. None are in production yet, and it's the same chicken/egg sort of problem as with the BEVs and chargers. The larger vehicles are intended to swap batteries versus recharge, and the infrastructure has to exist before anybody will buy them.

I weary of pointing this out, but here I go again. To replace ICE vehicles requires more than good vehicle design. Tesla HAS good vehicle design. You also need a complete manufacturing design for your vehicle (Tesla's is marginal at best), the charge or battery swap infrastructure, really really cheap high quality batteries, and lastly you need to overcome the huge marketing resistance to BEVs that the public has.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 07 Nov 2018, 13:09:39

baha wrote:The take away I got from that video is EVs are more environmentally friendly than ICEs. End of story...EV Trucks will be that much better than ICE trucks.

Agreed. KJ seems to be distracted by squirrels or something again, per is response to this video.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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