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Saudi Aramco IPO

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 11:12:30

No its not. Postponing the IPO simply means that your claim that the IPO would get done in 2018 is bogus


Again the nuances of the English language are lost on you. But maybe this was one of your famous "typos", you know the ones you repeat several times and argue on and on about how you were right until you have to pretend they were actual a series of "typos" :roll:

First of all what you said was and I quote "Saudi Aramco officially announced that they are indefinitely postponing their plans to do an IPO

Postponing their plans and postponing the IPO are distinctly separate concepts. As I pointed out ARAMCO was very adamant they had not postponed their plans to do an IPO...they were committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing.

That makes the reports in the WSJ and other media sources that the IPO may be dead very interesting, as they are consistent with the fact IPO is now indefinitely postponed, with no set time or conditions for it to be restarted.


Other than the fact that the actual official statements indicate WSJ, Rueters etc are all incorrect. But don't let the official statements get in the way of a good story for you. :roll:

But for now, at least we know for sure that your claim that the IPO would happen in 2018 is totally, completely and fully bogus.


I never claimed that. As I pointed out to you several times above I noted that ARAMCO had made an official statement in June that the IPO would be delayed as they looked at the acquisition of another company. In fact I quoted Amin Nasser the CEO as saying:

There is no doubt that the potential acquisition of a strategic stake in SABIC ... will delay the IPO,
 

Up until that point in time the official statements from ARAMCO was they were targeting end of 2018.

But you seem to forget your original claims here that the IPO was canceled and that it was canceled (which it wasn't) because ARAMCO was worried about disclosure (which apparently they aren't). First you suggested it was reserve and financial disclosure which makes zero sense for several reasons (as was pointed out to you) and then you stated that ARAMCO would not be worried about being sued in NY state by survivors of 911 which also flies in the face of statements from the Saudis as well as several newspaper articles (as was pointed out to you). But changing your story and pretending it was your original argument all along seems to be your modus operandi here.

Get it now? :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 12:01:23

As I pointed out ARAMCO was .... committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing.


Yes, but they previously said they were committed to doing an IPO in 2018, but then they didn't do it. The ARAMCO IPO is now indefinitely postponed and their earlier commitment to the 2018 date has proven to be empty blather.

Given ARAMCO's failure to keep their commitment to the 2018 IPO date, its not unreasonable to be skeptical about their new claims about the IPO, especially when the WSJ and other news stories report (1) there is dissension and opposition to the IPO within ARAMCO, and (2) Prince Muhammed has found a new way to get the billions he wants for KSA infrastructure development, and no longer needs the IPO to fund his plans.

What we do know is that in spite of ARAMCO's earlier claims and your comically gullible acceptance of whatever ARAMCO says, the ARAMCO IPO scheduled for 2018 isn't happening in 2018, and all your posts insisting the IPO would happen in 2018 have turned out to be utterly, totally and completely untrue.

Do you get it now?

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 15:34:58

What we do know is that in spite of ARAMCO's earlier claims and your comically gullible acceptance of whatever ARAMCO says, the ARAMCO IPO scheduled for 2018 isn't happening in 2018, and all your posts insisting the IPO would happen in 2018 have turned out to be utterly, totally and completely untrue.


As compared to your accepting the unidentified sources in WSJ and Reuters press pieces? Given the current rise in "fake news" I would have thought you had more brains than that. :roll:

The fact of the matter is that the IPO process and timing is established and controlled by ARAMCO and the government of SA, not by the WSJ or Reuters. As such not accepting what ARAMCO or the Minister of Energy has to say on the subject puts you in the same place as the folks who believe NASA claims to have landed on the moon are false.

And you have proven you either don't read what people post or you are illiterate.

As I said above now 3 times I did not insist the IPO would happen in 2018....When ARAMCO announced the delay to possibly 2019 in June I pointed to that quote. Up until that point there was no indication from ARAMCO that a 2018 date would not happen.

Do you get it now?


I would respectfully suggest you cram that statement up your backside....it has become incredibly irritating given you have zero to be smug about, in fact, it merely makes you appear a bigger fool.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 15:39:35

"... committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing." And that statement includes a promise to NEVER DO THE IPO if Aramco/Saudi govt decides there never comes the appropriate time to do the IPO. IOW it has promised that it may never do the IPO.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 16:03:11

"... committed to doing an IPO but at the time of their choosing." And that statement includes a promise to NEVER DO THE IPO if Aramco/Saudi govt decides there never comes the appropriate time to do the IPO. IOW it has promised that it may never do the IPO.


you seem to have missed that class in Math 201 where they discussed Logic. :roll:

"The Government remains committed to the IPO of Saudi Aramco at a time of its own choosing when conditions are optimum."
"This timing will depend on multiple factors, including favorable market conditions, and a downstream acquisition which the Company will pursue in the next few months," al-Falih said.


There is no place in that statement that you can come up with a conclusion that ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO.

Will it happen? Almost certainly if "conditions are optimum". Otherwise the Saudis would never have started down the path, spent tons of money and manhours preparing everything necessary.

Is it possible conditions will never be optimal....sure, just as it is possible that Hilary Clinton will be elected president in 2020 or Korea will destroy all their nuclear capabilities or Trump will stop tweeting self-aggrandizing twaddle. Anything is possible.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 18:34:25

There is no place in that statement that you can come up with a conclusion that ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO.


I never said ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO. I suggest you try reading more slowly and, if that does't work, then try saying the words out loud. It may help you understand what you are reading.

Will it happen? Almost certainly...


Thats what you said about ARAMCO doing the IPO in 2018. In post after post after post you insisted everything was on track and ARAMCO would do their IPO in 2018. However, now it is ever so clear that you were wrong. Very wrong. Wrong over and over again. You were totally and completely wrong.

Image
You were wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong about ARAMCO "certainly" doing their IPO in 2018. hahahahahahah!

I hate to break it to you, but your crystal ball is broken.

Personally, I put the odds of ARAMCO ever doing the IPO much lower then you do because (1) the WSJ and other news sources report there is opposition to doing the IPO within the leadership of ARAMCO, and (2) Prince Muhammed has found a new way to get the billions he wants for KSA infrastructure development, and no longer needs the ARAMCO IPO to happen to fund his plans, so the original rationale for doing the IPO doesn't exist any more.

Get it now?

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 21:36:01

never said ARAMCO promised they would not do an IPO. 


OH boy.Apparently, I have to go back a few pages and quote from you

The WSJ is reporting that Saudi Arabia is not going to go through with its plan to sell shares in Aramco and its oil assets

This is consistent with news reports that KSA is telling Trump its impossible for them to raise their production to bring down oil prices. 

IF KSA production can't be raised any higher, then that is big red flag. 

It suggests KSA has peaked

If KSA is now backing out of their planned IPO because they don't want show anyone else their books...

It suggests KSA oilfields are in trouble, and production is at or near the peak.



Now they are saying forget about that--- they can't do it. And whats more, forget about the IPO they've been preparing too. They're not going to do that either. They don't want anybody else to see the books or check those claims about oil reserves, don't you know, because their claims might be specious and they might get sued for lying about their oil reserves.


yes you said all that. And a number of people called you out for misinterpreting the article quoted

Kublikan said

Looks like you took quite a few liberties in interpreting that article Plant.



Cog said

Planty you basically inserted YOUR opinion into why Aramco isn't going forward with their IPO


And then I said

As has been pointed out by several folks here you just made all of this crap up. Either you have trouble with reading comprehension or you have a very vivid imagination that you like to let run rampant.
- there is no suggestion in the article that the Saudis have cancelled the IPO....you claimed it did
-there is no suggestion in the article the Saudis are worried about making reserve information public....you claimed it did


So nice try at a different reality…doesn’t work when all you have to do is go back a few pages.

Thats what you said about ARAMCO doing the IPO in 2018. In post after post after post you insisted everything was on track and ARAMCO would do their IPO in 2018. However, now it is ever so clear that you were wrong. Very wrong. Wrong over and over again. You were totally and completely wrong.
 

What? I said they were on track as long as ARAMCO was saying they were on track. Why would anyone who wasn’t involved in the process and willing to disclose his/her name claim something other than what ARAMCO was saying?

You were wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong about ARAMCO "certainly" doing their IPO in 2018. hahahahahahah! 


ARE YOU a complete idiot, apparently so….or at least a teenager which is part in parcel the same thing. ARAMCO said they were doing the IPO in 2019, not me and when they said it was delayed I reported that. Are you actually that brain dead?

so the original rationale for doing the IPO doesn't exist any more.


the original rationale for doing the IPO beyond a capital raise was to bring Saudi Arabia into the twenty-first century as a multinational oil and gas company with upstream and downstream capabilities comparable to Exxon Mobil or Shell. That has not changed. Read MSM’s plan for 2030. And ARAMCO states they are committed to that.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 18:58:23

the original rationale .... was to bring Saudi Arabia into the twenty-first century as a multinational oil and gas company with upstream and downstream capabilities comparable to Exxon Mobil or Shell.


You are talking gibberish. Saudi Arabia is not a multinational oil and gas company as you claim. Saudi Arabia is a country located in the middle east.

Do you actually mean Saudi ARAMCO?

The country of Saudi ARABIA and the oil company Saudi ARAMCO are very different things. I'll explain the difference to you if I have to, but hopefully you can figure it out on your own now that I've pointed out that you are confusing these two very different things.

Glad to help as always.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 09:57:17

You are talking gibberish. Saudi Arabia is not a multinational oil and gas company as you claim. Saudi Arabia is a country located in the middle east.


OH, dear me, must have been a "typo"....hold on I'll do it again so it seems familiar to you. :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:27:33

OH, dear me, must have been a "typo"....


Well, strictly speaking a "typo" is a mistake in the mechanics of typing, like incorrectly typing a word or leaving out a letter or number in something that was typed. What you did isn't a typo but instead an inadvertent mistake. You mistakenly transposed Saudi Arabia with Saudi Aramco, when they aren't the same thing at all.

But thats OK.

Everyone makes mistakes and everyone makes typos...even you.

hold on I'll do it again so it seems familiar to you.


No need to be childish about it.

So you made an inadvertent mistake. If you want to pretend it was a typo, thats OK too. After all, you're only human, just like the rest of us. Join the crowd.

Let this be a lesson to you that everyone makes inadvertent mistakes and everyone makes typos.....even you.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 12:03:12

Let's go back to the original statement posted here: Aramco has announced it will not do an IPO until, in its opinion, such time as condition warrant doing so. Was that not correct? If it was then Aramco HAS PROMISED that no IPO is currently planned. And won't be planned until conditions are right. And Aramco has not posted what it considers are the proper conditions or when they may ever develop.

Again, if that original statement attributable to Aramco is correct, it has clearly stated that no IPO is planned at this time. And since neither Aramco nor anyone on this site has a magic crystal ball there can be no prediction that the proper conditions will ever develop.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 12:45:50

If it was then Aramco HAS PROMISED that no IPO is currently planned. And won't be planned until conditions are right. And Aramco has not posted what it considers are the proper conditions or when they may ever develop.


No..the IPO is still "planned" it is just that it won't be "executed" until conditions are optimum. If it wasn't "planned" then why would they have completed all the work to get there? If it wasn't "planned" then why would ARAMCO make statements that they were continuing to work on it? There is a lot of difference between planning as it applies to the IPO process versus execution.

Again, if that original statement attributable to Aramco is correct, it has clearly stated that no IPO is planned at this time.


well maybe in some other language but you will have to show that quote from ARAMCO where they say they do not plan to do an IPO.

Let this be a lesson to you that everyone makes inadvertent mistakes and everyone makes typos.....even you.


I guess sarcasm is lost on you. A bit of a difference typing Arabia versus Aramco from getting units wrong in math conversions, not once but twice and all the while arguing that you were right all along.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 05 Oct 2018, 14:29:26

The Saudi Aramco IPO is back in the news. Prince Muhammad just said the IPO will happen in late 2020 or maybe in 2021.

saudi-crown-prince-slams-obama-praises-trump-claims-aramco-ipo-back

Prince Muhammad has ordered Saudi Aramco to complete the SABIC deal in 2019 and then shift their attention to the IPO and get it done in another year or two.

Prince Muhammad is a little fuzzy on the details of how these two huge deals will get done, but the timetable he has set for Saudi Aramco is pretty clear. If the IPO actually happens in 2020-21, it will be 4-5 years after the initial announcement of the IPO in January 2016.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 05 Oct 2018, 15:27:57

It's a desert mirage. In the same class as 'as-yet-to-be-discovered' reserves. Camel dung.
SA has peaked. OPEC has peaked. So goes the world.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 05 Oct 2018, 17:08:26

pstarr wrote:It's a desert mirage. In the same class as 'as-yet-to-be-discovered' reserves. Camel dung.

And since you make so many factual and evidence based pronouncements on this site (vs random opinions backed by nothing), we should all consider this statement credible, of course. :roll: In the world of economic reality, if oil gets expensive enough, then they'll likely have a much better result from the IPO re price, how it's received (and thus their credibility for potential future offerings), etc.

Given how the Cassandras keep telling us there is way too little oil to meet the world's needs, then no doubt the price of crude will likely rise significantly in the next year or two. (Don't tell the ETPers, including yourself that though. Since it will be impossible for people to afford $2 crude by then, etc). As usual, it seems to be difficult for the different denominations of the fast crash church to get their story straight.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 05 Oct 2018, 17:19:28

So Outcast, you have any evidence to refute the assertion of Pstarr. Or is this just another affront to your sensibilities and so you cry out Doomers. By the way, too expensive Oil will sink Economies so that is hardly a remedy for this IPO and for KSA and its Oil Industry
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 18 Oct 2018, 16:36:04

Proven Crude Reserves . . . what a joke! Every time you say that I just split my pants :)
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 18 Oct 2018, 18:27:55

Okay here is a matter of fact toned down article of the very real short and longer term problems of keeping production strong in the Permian

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... verheating
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:23:03

Proven Crude Reserves . . . what a joke! Every time you say that I just split my pants :)


And what precisely is it you think you know about the subject? I mean besides absolutely nothing? :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 18 Oct 2018, 19:29:47

rockdoc123 wrote:
Proven Crude Reserves . . . what a joke! Every time you say that I just split my pants :)


And what precisely is it you think you know about the subject? I mean besides absolutely nothing? :roll:

Practically anything with carbon, hydrogen and oxygen is oil . . . at the right price. I'll bet your buddies could upgrade whole wheat bread and call it dilbit if you paid them enough
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