[jedrider]

Rockdoc, that's mostly alternative press you referenced.

The major networks are still reticent about climate change even as the alternative press turned up the heat, so to speak.

[onlooker]

Well, the catalyst of consequences is what will finally bring a transition, not the foresight and good planning to avoid them.

We knew this all along, we even said so in many threads here at po.com. That was one of my most often repeated observations. The consequences themselves represent the catalyst to wake us up.

You were the original one Ibon who contributed this insight. Most of us on this site know that NO solutions exist anymore. Cassandra's curse was to be ignored. Well, humanity ignored the path it was on. It is now in retrospect that this is becoming quite clear. I would bet anyone anything, that 100 years from now, that what remains of humanity will be a sorry sight

[Whitefang]

Newfie, being 75 is not a crime or obstacle, just an extra challenge, my mom is 75 right now and she will join, go into the wild if needed. I'll be 55 then, not old, not young, in the middle.

Ralfy, most willl get stuck in town/cities, a lot will try and make it to the forests and mountains, lakes and rivers.
The unprepaired will die before the first winter is gone.
It will be dangerous and tricky just to stay alive, even if you have the knowledge of special forces, the pro's.
But at least a fair chanche and great scenery as a stage to fight for your life, for your family.

Cog, it will not matter, color, religion, commy or kappy……….all that we will have is our personal strenght and wit to survive in harch conditions. The elite with their private armies have made preperations but I think they cannot hold everything together, they love slavery, terror as a tool to bind people, they are done for, their fantasy kingdom will never come.
Communism were just a way to sell a dictatorship, just like the opposite, a way to make your slaves believe they are free, work for something good, a ponzi scheme, just like giving woman the right to vote and work so you can tax both......
I stopped voting since I became aware that there is only one party that rules, that controls the big money, the media and the rest.
We will all be stripped of importance, no more managers, no money, no credentials, no diploma's.......no kings and queens.
We will all be equal in this mess, strenght of mussle will be important, health and guts, courage, a very long happy camper vacation.
A march to war with nothing to loose but our own lives.
We will learn to take what we need, to live a sober life, nature will teach us wonders. An adventure, a new world, a fresh start.
We can, might learn to save up personal energy, store power and be free from that person that tells you what to do, who to be.

It is a very slim chanche to change, really change, not the Obama kind, just talk.
We will be forced to be free or die a slave, to fix our own spirit is our job, the thing worth living and dying for.

[Newfie]

There will be places more or less safe than other places, less people and a lot of trees sounds good to me.
I expect deathrate to go exponential shortly after the harvest goes down the drain, say one or two years after the sea ice is gone.
Blue arctic ocean within 4 years, so that makes 7 years maximum BAU. 2025 but it could very well start early next decade.

Hope not as I'd love to do much more prepping, 2030 would be too much to ask for I suppose.

At least we made it through an extra year, but sea ice concentration looks awfull, very thin, even at the northpole.

https://seaice.uni-bremen.de/data/amsr2 ... R2_nic.png

Indeed, and more will eventually think the same (i.e., few people, a lot of trees) and decide to go there.

And I’ll be here already.

[Newfie]

White fang,
If I understand Ibon correctly you just spoke to a lot of his hopeful future where humanity learns to adapt.

Here’s hoping you are both right.

[Ibon]

Put aside for a moment the love you have for your own offspring and look objectively at our species. Ask yourself what is the value of a human life born today at the cusp of human overshoot?
Then ask yourself the same question about the value of a human life down there in the trough of the correction when we are maybe down to a billion or so, vast expanses of former human landscapes empty of humanity.

Not only ask yourself the value of a human life but also ask yourself what value do you place on your community, town, village, state, government that is picking up the pieces post correction.

And lastly, looking out on the landscape of a healing planet, the pioneer species of plants growing in the cracks of roads and buildings, sea birds nesting on the skeletons of coastal condominiums, bobcats raising families in the shells of McMansions, ask yourself how those surviving humans will look upon the resiliency of mother nature reclaiming her own.

Will the seeds of humility bear fruit one day in the renaissance culture that carries forth whereby our planet is revered instead of raped? It remains an open question.

[Whitefang]

Indeed, and more will eventually think the same (i.e., few people, a lot of trees) and decide to go there.

And I’ll be here already. [/quote]
[/quote]

Great idea Newfie!
That will surely save you a one way ticket.

White fang,
If I understand Ibon correctly you just spoke to a lot of his hopeful future where humanity learns to adapt.

Here’s hoping you are both right.

Allrighty then,

I'll let myself be on thin ice since I cannot make others see, have no proof and absolutely no credentials.
But on my path I could not but stumble upon the way out of here, since there is so much more to us and everything than our minds make us believe, I do believe in wonders, in magic, in a lot of worlds to be lived here and now, the present.
There you go, I know it sounds wierd, well, it is, a mystery.

My mind tells me that mammals are done for, going extinct, mother Earth a haven for the 100 Billion little creatures per human alive today…...whatwasit? Centipods? 500 myo, they survived all 5 extinctions, able to survive in space, without water....

I am very much aware of my, our internal struggle, the war between me my feelings and me the petty person me that is on my mind.
That is the root, our central issue of all human life, probably since agriculture, the last 10 millenia and silence is the key, how to shut the babble up without getting lost in ritual and belief, moral and whatelse.
We were not born stupid, we just decend into a social hell of self pity when we grow up, create pseudo problems that flares up and consumes, depletes our energy, our personal power, what we are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitoid

A parasitoid is an organism that lives in close association with its host and at the host's expense, and which sooner or later kills it. Parasitoidism is one of six major evolutionary strategies within parasitism. Parasitoidism is distinguished by the fatal prognosis for the host, which makes the strategy close to predation.
Among parasitoids, strategies range from living inside the host, allowing it to go on growing until the parasitoid emerges as an adult, to paralysing the host and living outside it. Hosts include other parasitoids, resulting in hyperparasitism; in the case of oak galls, up to five levels of parasitism are possible. Some parasitoids influence their host's behaviour in ways that favour the propagation of the parasitoid.

The battle of culture against nature is depicted as an unending combat between humanity and insect-like extraterrestrial species that tend to parasitize human beings in order to reproduce."[57] The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction lists many instances of "parasitism", often causing the host's death.[63]

Just by saving personal power one can learn to see, understand and go through the door, get experience on the windy side, the unknown so to speak. No need for teachers, masters and the like, we can all see for ourselves, no faith or belief, just the right action to stop habits, self importance and pity, stop draining energy, the personal kind.

We have to defy our own selves, that what we think we are, our petty fears, ambition.
We all want to know what is out there and in here, a natural drive, not ambition.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/defiance

defiance noun
1. Behavior or an act that is intentionally provocative:
challenge, provocation.
2. The disposition boldly to defy or resist authority or an opposing force:
contempt, contumacy, despite, recalcitrance, recalcitrancy.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1034303/ showing now on Netflix......Maybe YouTube.

Jewish brothers in Nazi-occupied Eastern Europe escape into the Belarussian forests, where they join Russian resistance fighters, and endeavor to build a village, in order to protect themselves and about one thousand Jewish non-combatants.

So yes, I am with hoping for the best, but prep for the worst, extinction.

Terrible, and yet........wonders do happen.

That is my escape.

[Whitefang]

Put aside for a moment the love you have for your own offspring and look objectively at our species. Ask yourself what is the value of a human life born today at the cusp of human overshoot?
Then ask yourself the same question about the value of a human life down there in the trough of the correction when we are maybe down to a billion or so, vast expanses of former human landscapes empty of humanity.

Not only ask yourself the value of a human life but also ask yourself what value do you place on your community, town, village, state, government that is picking up the pieces post correction.

And lastly, looking out on the landscape of a healing planet, the pioneer species of plants growing in the cracks of roads and buildings, sea birds nesting on the skeletons of coastal condominiums, bobcats raising families in the shells of McMansions, ask yourself how those surviving humans will look upon the resiliency of mother nature reclaiming her own.

Will the seeds of humility bear fruit one day in the renaissance culture that carries forth whereby our planet is revered instead of raped? It remains an open question.

Thanks Ibon,

That is what we are fighting for, have to learn, humanity her greatest achievement, to take only what is needed.
I'll start a new post, a story, as a fiction there will be no need to prove anything, that might come in handy.
Open topic, what is on my mind thing.

[ralfy]

Ralfy, most willl get stuck in town/cities, a lot will try and make it to the forests and mountains, lakes and rivers.
The unprepaired will die before the first winter is gone.
It will be dangerous and tricky just to stay alive, even if you have the knowledge of special forces, the pro's.
But at least a fair chanche and great scenery as a stage to fight for your life, for your family.

From what I know, most people worldwide earn less than $10 a day and many came from the countryside to find work in cities. In short, they have been living in poverty and are used to hardship even in rural areas.

That doesn't mean that there will be no mass die off, but don't expect them to wait and die, or that the middle class and rich can easily isolate themselves from the former in some isolated paradise. Unless one enjoys Hollywood BS.

[Newfie]

I think that exactly right, they will fight for life, and be effective because of their experience.

That does not mean there are no areas when Westerners can look forward to as hospitable. But there are not many.

Also, many of the world’s poor already live in depleted areas, they have little reserve to draw upon. I think of China with 16 times the population per unit of aerable soil as the USA. That stat just sounds ripe for conflict.

[ralfy]

Put aside for a moment the love you have for your own offspring and look objectively at our species. Ask yourself what is the value of a human life born today at the cusp of human overshoot?
Then ask yourself the same question about the value of a human life down there in the trough of the correction when we are maybe down to a billion or so, vast expanses of former human landscapes empty of humanity.

Not only ask yourself the value of a human life but also ask yourself what value do you place on your community, town, village, state, government that is picking up the pieces post correction.

And lastly, looking out on the landscape of a healing planet, the pioneer species of plants growing in the cracks of roads and buildings, sea birds nesting on the skeletons of coastal condominiums, bobcats raising families in the shells of McMansions, ask yourself how those surviving humans will look upon the resiliency of mother nature reclaiming her own.

Will the seeds of humility bear fruit one day in the renaissance culture that carries forth whereby our planet is revered instead of raped? It remains an open question.

There should be no open question because that planet was revered in the past, but various circumstances eventually led to the use of technology for cultivation, etc.

[ralfy]

I think that exactly right, they will fight for life, and be effective because of their experience.

That does not mean there are no areas when Westerners can look forward to as hospitable. But there are not many.

Also, many of the world’s poor already live in depleted areas, they have little reserve to draw upon. I think of China with 16 times the population per unit of aerable soil as the USA. That stat just sounds ripe for conflict.

Conflict is what will ensure that there will be no safe places, especially given the point that armed forces will eventually devolve into armed groups that will protect themselves, thus leading to the dissolution of governments. These, after all, are some of many factors involving mass die offs.

The middle class and rich will be especially hard hit, as they are not used to hardship or even conflict. Eventually, they will join the ranks of the poor, and probably faster than they imagine. At some point small communities will be formed--and fall apart--as those who remain try to survive amidst incredible difficulties due to combinations of a resource crunch and environmental damage on a significant scale.

[Newfie]

Ralphy,

You may we’ll be right, I don’t know.

Assuming you are doesn’t it point to trying to find a more convivial place to live now? I get that there are not a lot of options and compromises need to be made. It to try to move in the face of the crisis will likely be difficult because you will be one of many. The folks where you want to go will see you as no different from any other outsider.

That’s why I think it’s important to make local ties in your big out location, so that the folks there know you, accept you, and see your coming as reinforcements, not as another invader.

[GHung]

.....
That’s why I think it’s important to make local ties in your big out location, so that the folks there know you, accept you, and see your coming as reinforcements, not as another invader.

Important to already be LIVING in your bug-out location and making those connections, if you're pretty sure TS will HTF in the near future.

[dohboi]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... r-un-warns

Global hunger levels rising due to extreme weather, UN warns

Progress made in the past decade has been reversed, with climate extremes such as droughts and floods identified as a main cause

Global hunger has reverted to levels last seen a decade ago, wiping out progress on improving people’s access to food and leaving one in nine people undernourished last year, with extreme weather a leading cause, the UN has warned.

Hunger afflicted 821 million people last year, the third annual rise since 2015, with most regions of Africa and much of South America showing worsening signs of food shortages and malnutrition. More than half a billion of the world’s hungry live in Asia.

The reversal of progress made in slowing malnutrition in the first half of this decade has caused serious concern among international agencies. Climate shocks, such as droughts and floods, were identified by the UN as “among the key drivers” for the rise in 2017, along with conflict and economic slowdowns. Nearly 100 million people were left dependent on humanitarian aid during the year.

The UN report covers last year, and does not take account of 2018’s extreme weather which has brought heatwaves and high temperatures to much of the northern hemisphere, accompanied by droughts in some parts of the globe and floods in others. However, the changing climatic trends are likely to spell trouble for years ahead.

Robin Willoughby, head of food and climate policy at Oxfam GB, said the last few months were likely to have made the situation even worse, and called on governments to commit funds to help poor countries adapt to the effects of global warming. “The extreme weather we have seen this year is likely to have exacerbated the crisis,” he said. “A hotter world is proving to be a hungrier world.”

Cindy Holleman, a senior economist at the FAO and editor of the report, said: “What is alarming about this analysis is that climate variability and climate extremes now are contributing to the rise in hunger. Not just emergency levels of hunger, but chronic hunger.

[ralfy]

Ralphy,

You may we’ll be right, I don’t know.

Assuming you are doesn’t it point to trying to find a more convivial place to live now? I get that there are not a lot of options and compromises need to be made. It to try to move in the face of the crisis will likely be difficult because you will be one of many. The folks where you want to go will see you as no different from any other outsider.

That’s why I think it’s important to make local ties in your big out location, so that the folks there know you, accept you, and see your coming as reinforcements, not as another invader.

Yes, usually the best place is one with arable soil, water sources, a moderate climate suitable for a variety of fruits, vegetables, and herbs, and enough knowledgeable people to help each other as part of small communities.

However, more will move to such places, especially given instability brought about by climate change and unexpected conflict. The same crises might also make such places uninhabitable due to combinations of such crises (e.g., nuclear reactors malfunctioning, the arrival of armed groups, possible epidemics).

[Newfie]

Sweet spots are rare.

[dohboi]

ttps://phys.org/news/2018-10-root-long- ... lines.html

Aerial insectivores—birds that hunt for insect prey on the wing—are declining across North America.

... Cox and her colleagues believe that increasingly unfavorable weather conditions and declines in insect availability may be behind the demographic shifts they found. "I hope that our results will spur more research into the environmental causes of Tree Swallow declines and declines of other similar species. Our research points the finger at poor survival overwinter and poor fledging as the probable demographic causes of population declines," says Cox.
Quote

"It was an incredible opportunity to analyze a dataset that started before I was born," adds Taylor. "Working with these long-term data had an emotional connection for me as a researcher and birder. My own fieldwork on Kent Island took place during the summers of 2014 and 2015, by which time most of the swallow nest boxes on the island were empty. For me, it was sobering to look back through the data and envision those nest boxes full of activity and life."

[dohboi]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ens-revolt

a people’s rebellion is the only way to fight climate breakdown
George Monbiot

Our politicians, under the influence of big business, have failed us. As they take the planet to the brink, it’s time for disruptive, nonviolent disobedience

On 31 October, I will speak at the launch of Extinction Rebellion** in Parliament Square. This is a movement devoted to disruptive, nonviolent disobedience in protest against ecological collapse. The three heroes jailed for trying to stop fracking last month, whose outrageous sentences have just been overturned, are likely to be the first of hundreds. The intention is to turn this national rising into an international one.

This preparedness for sacrifice, a long history of political and religious revolt suggests, is essential to motivate and mobilise people to join an existential struggle. It is among such people that you find the public and civic sense now lacking in government. That we have to take such drastic action to defend the common realm shows how badly we have been abandoned.

[Newfie]

Bill McKibben has been advocating along similar lines for some years.