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When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 07:48:08

And onlooker will be the first in line to acquire his government cheese.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 07:52:52

Cog wrote:And onlooker will be the first in line to acquire his government cheese.

So, indulge me Cog. If the economic system collapsed, do you think you could or would survive on your own?
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 08:23:20

onlooker wrote:This is part of what makes an authoritarian fascist type govt that much more likely. People will cling to whatever and whomever can provide for their basic necessities. And when economic malaise is pervasive and acute, the free market will not function which would set the stage for a coommunist collective style economy to assure at least the basic necessities for everyone. So in effect people would trade their freedom for security including from privation


I think we can conclude that personal freedoms decline as constraints rise regardless of which flavor of government is in power. Unregulated capitalism during the decline will breed authoritarianism and make communism look appealling to the masses of the disenfranchised. Trying to manage the chaos and decline with increasing government regulation and public expenditures to insure basic survival and dignity will actually be the way to keep capitalism and the free market resilient.

Our paranoid anti communists and anti socialists don't seem to understand what their purest form of libertarian unregulated capitalism will lead to........

Irony abounds.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 08:23:49

Probably. But I'd have to do things I'd rather not do at present.

This is irrelevant though since we aren't going to see a worldwide collapse or die off in your life time or even your children's lifetime.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 08:34:18

Cog wrote: Pearls before swine I swear. :lol:


To a christian well versed in the bibles wisdom there are pearls on every page. To a secular atheist it is just calcium carbonate.

My father born and raised an anabaptist in agrarian Pennsylvania was studying to be a minister when WWII shipped him off the Europe where he met my italian mother. Her irreverant ways broke the yoke of his christian upbringing. He became as devout an atheist as he was an earnest christian in the decades following the war. He has all the agrarian christian work ethic and virtues and high morals but he dumped Jesus. He brought me up to see both the pearls and the calcium carbonate. I am forever indebted to him.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby diemos » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 09:04:14

Ibon wrote:Our paranoid anti communists and anti socialists don't seem to understand what their purest form of libertarian unregulated capitalism will lead to........


As I say libertarians, "You're always free to move to Somalia and begin experiencing a free market libertarian paradise."
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 14:39:03

Ibon wrote:
Cog wrote: Pearls before swine I swear. :lol:


To a christian well versed in the bibles wisdom there are pearls on every page. To a secular atheist it is just calcium carbonate.

My father born and raised an anabaptist in agrarian Pennsylvania was studying to be a minister when WWII shipped him off the Europe where he met my italian mother. Her irreverant ways broke the yoke of his christian upbringing. He became as devout an atheist as he was an earnest christian in the decades following the war. He has all the agrarian christian work ethic and virtues and high morals but he dumped Jesus. He brought me up to see both the pearls and the calcium carbonate. I am forever indebted to him.

Vives tend to convert husbands to their own believes.
I was brought up as christian, but I have found idea to be implausible (man claiming to be a god, without any substantial evidence for it to be the case and later entire concept have turned into a catalogue of wars and suffering unheard of before), so I have turned atheist.
Then I have met my wife who is pagan and for long time I was following developments in science, hoping that scientific method will lead us towards a truth.
Then I have found that science is turning into yet another religion where plenty of untestable nonsense is rather religiously followed than scientifically proven.
Examples of such nonsense are multiverse (unfalsifiable even in theory, hence unscientific), cosmic inflation with its "ethernal" models which was meant to solve a problem of finely tuned initial conditions but made it only worse, string theories (10^276000 of possible Calabi-Yau manifolds at the moment, number growing very fast and anyway think how absurdly large it already is, no testable predictions - means unfalsifiable, also apparent absence of de Sitter space soultions, eg good for nothing mathematical onanism).
So on high energy end we have a religion, not science and on low energy end (origins of life) there is no meaningful progress for many decades either.
Basic issues relevant to life like origins of excess of one chiral form of certain building blocks of living matter over its second form (mirror image) are still not resolved and we have no ideas at all at the moment, how it have happened (this issue is very much low energy equivalent of well known matter/antimatter conundrum).
There are also intractable problems with life relevant to breaches of rules of *information theory* implying substantial infringement of 2nd law of thermodynamics (in the epoch when life was formed, genes and other useful polymeric molecules emerged and first organisms have been assembled, but not necessarily later) etc.
Not entirely impossible (as 2nd law is based on statistics and would be compromised only temporarily), but extremly implausible.

After many years I have concluded that science is leading us to a sort of dead end, it becomes to be yet another religion and will not answer many of all important questions.

Then I have applied Ockham razor, concluded that few dozens of deities, maybe together with a pricipal one overlooking all of them and representing Nature in general is far more plausible than claiming existence of *infinite* number of different universes with no chance at all to prove that more than one exist, as currently science does.

So I have embraced my wife's paganism and as a bonus I have found that these pagan gods tend to be the same or comparable, regardless of culture which created them and that is reassuring. So many gods of pre-Christian Poland are the same gods what my chinese wife was always believing in.
So I am a pagan.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 18:59:35

Ibon wrote:
My experience with many suburbanites and urban dwellers is that they have drifted so far from any organic connection with the natural world that they would starve in place clinging on to the disintegrating fragments of their human infrastructure rather than go hording for food in the far hinterlands. Even the simple act of digging for grubs or knowing what is edible in the plant world around you is something that has become far too abstract for your average urban dweller. This meme of zombie hordes from urban areas raping and pillaging the country side is hollywood BS. In reality we will see hardships make people cling all the harder to what is familiar.


If we follow reality, then we realize, at least in developing countries, that many are not suburbanites and urban dwellers but came from rural areas to find higher-paying blue- and white-collar jobs in urban ones. Meanwhile, those who grow rich in urban areas start acquiring land in rural ones to develop suburbs, mines, logging areas, dams, resorts, etc. Finally, it is highly unlikely that most people will stay put and starve to death, and if armed, will do much more before resorting to digging for grubs.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 19:05:27

diemos wrote:
I was living in LA during the Rodney King riots and I learned an important lesson. The rampaging hordes burned down their own neighborhoods because the buses weren't running and they had no transportation of their own.

Modern humans will not suddenly develop survival skills just because the 7-11s close down. They'll die like flies in their own neighborhoods waiting and hoping for someone to fix the great machine that has been providing them with food, shelter and entertainment all their lives.


And yet riots took place.

This reminds me of one article written by a war journalist. He noted that one thing that he observed in poor, war-torn countries is that the ones who survived in urban areas were criminals. More fled to or returned to provinces. Those who lived in isolated, rural areas faced bandits.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby diemos » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 17:51:17

ralfy wrote:
diemos wrote:
I was living in LA during the Rodney King riots and I learned an important lesson. The rampaging hordes burned down their own neighborhoods because the buses weren't running and they had no transportation of their own.

Modern humans will not suddenly develop survival skills just because the 7-11s close down. They'll die like flies in their own neighborhoods waiting and hoping for someone to fix the great machine that has been providing them with food, shelter and entertainment all their lives.


And yet riots took place.

This reminds me of one article written by a war journalist. He noted that one thing that he observed in poor, war-torn countries is that the ones who survived in urban areas were criminals. More fled to or returned to provinces. Those who lived in isolated, rural areas faced bandits.


Oh, they'll definitely predate on each other. Never said they wouldn't.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 21:09:45

diemos wrote:
Oh, they'll definitely predate on each other. Never said they wouldn't.


There will be no safe place.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 16:34:46

Not soon enough. After seeing the Kavenaugh crap, I am going to laugh as is all turned to ash in your mouth. Evil in the name of God. You guys treat Christ's teachings like it's a suggestion. That it's all ok, as long as you believe he existed, you don't have to listen to what he said.

I spent my whole life being a good man, according to Christ's teachings, yet those that claim to be Christians, undermine his teachings at every opportunity.

They say, as long as you believe he died for your sins, you can sin all you want. And you don't have to abide by a word Christ said. Give me a FUCKING break.

That's no religion at all. I am sick of it. And I'm sure God is too. You can't just make up your own rules based on what's most convenient for you. You will pay.

I should have been Pope, I'd be dragging you through the coals.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 17:17:12

Cid_Yama wrote:Not soon enough. After seeing the Kavenaugh crap, I am going to laugh as is all turned to ash in your mouth. Evil in the name of God. You guys treat Christ's teachings like it's a suggestion. That it's all ok, as long as you believe he existed, you don't have to listen to what he said.

I spent my whole life being a good man, according to Christ's teachings, yet those that claim to be Christians, undermine his teachings at every opportunity.

They say, as long as you believe he died for your sins, you can sin all you want. And you don't have to abide by a word Christ said. Give me a FUCKING break.

That's no religion at all. I am sick of it. And I'm sure God is too. You can't just make up your own rules based on what's most convenient for you. You will pay.

I should have been Pope, I'd be dragging you through the coals.

Well I don't know anyone that got into much trouble following the dictates of the ten commandments. Being agnostic I find the first four very self serving for the priesthood of the time. They demand a brand loyalty that would make Nike proud.
But five through ten are just good common sense for people living in a community where leaving other peoples property(including their wives and servants)alone is the only way to coexist.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 17:21:02

ralfy wrote:There will be no safe place.


No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 18:21:39

Paganism, to me, is worship of the Earth. I'm all for that :-D
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 20:49:27

Cid_Yama wrote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.


There will be no safe place because a global population that's been dependent on industrial capitalism will not last when the latter falls apart.
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On thin ice

Unread postby Whitefang » Sun 09 Sep 2018, 14:27:07

ralfy wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.


There will be no safe place because a global population that's been dependent on industrial capitalism will not last when the latter falls apart.


There will be places more or less safe than other places, less people and a lot of trees sounds good to me.
I expect deathrate to go exponential shortly after the harvest goes down the drain, say one or two years after the sea ice is gone.
Blue arctic ocean within 4 years, so that makes 7 years maximum BAU. 2025 but it could very well start early next decade.

Hope not as I'd love to do much more prepping, 2030 would be too much to ask for I suppose.

At least we made it through an extra year, but sea ice concentration looks awfull, very thin, even at the northpole.

https://seaice.uni-bremen.de/data/amsr2 ... R2_nic.png
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 09 Sep 2018, 15:48:01

2025 I’ll be 75.
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Re: When will the mass dieoff begin? Pt. 3

Unread postby Cog » Sun 09 Sep 2018, 18:04:45

Hopefully throwing commies out of helicopters will be on the menu before the mass die-off occurs. Cause I'm down with that.
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Re: On thin ice

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 09 Sep 2018, 20:35:31

Whitefang wrote:
There will be places more or less safe than other places, less people and a lot of trees sounds good to me.
I expect deathrate to go exponential shortly after the harvest goes down the drain, say one or two years after the sea ice is gone.
Blue arctic ocean within 4 years, so that makes 7 years maximum BAU. 2025 but it could very well start early next decade.

Hope not as I'd love to do much more prepping, 2030 would be too much to ask for I suppose.

At least we made it through an extra year, but sea ice concentration looks awfull, very thin, even at the northpole.

https://seaice.uni-bremen.de/data/amsr2 ... R2_nic.png


Indeed, and more will eventually think the same (i.e., few people, a lot of trees) and decide to go there.
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