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Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 17:11:09

Cid_Yama wrote:
This was a historical level of devastation experienced by a significant US population that was dismissed by the Trump Administration based on racial predjudice


?????

1. Perhaps you don't know what the word "dismissed" means.

2. Puerto Rico sustained a dead hit by a huge hurricane. Thats not Trump's fault.

3. Since the hurricane the US has spent billions and billions of dollars on its relief effort in Puerto Rico. Back here in the real world the FEMA and the military made heroic efforts to rescue and help the people of Puerto Rico and the US has spent billions on relief efforts in Puerto Rico and on rebuilding the infrastructure after the disaster.

Cid_Yama wrote:this will be a permanent embarrassing chapter in the history books for our nation


Whats embarrassing about helping people, rescuing people, feeding people, housing people and saving people?

Really, Cid. Get a grip. Disasters happen. People die. Trying to make a partisan issue out of a natural disaster is petty.

Cid_Yama wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the Trump Administration actually kills the party.


I predicted Trump was going to damage the brand of the Rs back in 2016. But it won't be because of phony claims that the US didn't help the people of Puerto Rico, when actually thousands of people rushed to help and billions of dollars were spent.

There are still major problems in the world, and any of them could trip up Trump and do real damage to the US. For instance, I fully expect another major recession to hit before Trump leaves office, perhaps presaged by a stock market collapse.

Cheers!
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 17:24:13

I guess you missed the first part of my post.

You mistake me for someone who cares what you or your brainwashed cohorts think. Had no delusions with regards to you idiots.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 31 Aug 2018, 17:32:48

Cid_Yama wrote:I guess you missed the first part of my post.


No, I saw it but I skipped right over it because I could see it was just mindless ad homs.

I mainly read and discuss the parts of posts that have some interesting news or opinion in them, rather then wasting time on the ad homs.

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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 15:21:44

Cid_Yama wrote:I guess you missed the first part of my post.

You mistake me for someone who cares what you or your brainwashed cohorts think. Had no delusions with regards to you idiots.


The way it is, not an ad hom. Notice I am speaking about how I perceive you and your cohorts, that I could care less what you think and why, and how I did not expect anything said to impact you whatsoever.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 15:56:31

FWIW, I don't think that ANY of us regulars at Peak Oil have "cohorts", which is as I understand it, people who can be treated as a group. The only thing that the posters in this thread seem to agree upon is that Cid_Yama, long-time member, has made several nonsensical posts that he cannot defend. He got called on them and insulted other members. He still has not provided any shred of justification for what he said, or any proof that the facts are as he says.

My analysis of the present situation is the the corrupt government of PR has added all the PR evacuees presently on the mainland to the official death toll, and is alleging that Trump is victimizing them through the lapdog PR press. This I believe is part of a long running effort to get the Feds to spend more money on the island. But even the Democrats have had their fill of PR begging, which has nothing to do with ethnicity or skin color. It is also pretty much true that due to past abuses, PR has no credit rating to speak of, and the hurricane curtailed possibly half of the prior corporate tax revenues. They are indeed in a financial conundrum, and like Greece, will have to take politically unpopular steps to help themselves. They are in fact fairly desperate.

You took their bait, didn't you?
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 16:21:37

You mean all of your brainwashed cohorts of the Fox bubble agree on 'Alternative Facts', therefore, even though it does not reflect reality, that the OPINION of your group should override the actual facts.

There IS no debate if you are unwilling to accept the documented facts. Truth is not determined by the number of individual opinions in a given group. Facts are Facts.

My statement is as I presented it.

Gulianni's assertion that truth is not truth, is Orwellian. Same with Trump's statement about, "don't believe what you see".

Consider taking some elementary logic courses, perhaps a course on critical thinking.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 17:54:33

You see, PR does not get to set the official Hurricane Maria casualty total, FEMA does. The number - which is arrived at by using the same rules as for Sandy and Harvey and Irma and Irene - is 64. Anything else is speculative, without proof.

Note that there are no bodies, no Federal Census records, no nothing to support the extra 2911 people that were abruptly added to the causualty list for the storm. That is a figure created to support a political agenda.

Now, think critically yourself.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 18:22:09

Cid_Yama wrote:not an ad hom


For heaven's sake Cid.

Its bad enough you waste everyone's time by posting ad homs. Now you are going to lie about it as well?

Sheeesh! :roll:
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 04:35:06

Puerto Rican Governor Raises Official Hurricane Maria Death Toll From 64 To Nearly 3,000
The governor of Puerto Rico on Tuesday raised the government’s official death toll for Hurricane Maria from 64 to 2,975 people following the release of a new report.

The announcement comes just weeks after officials in Puerto Rico conceded that the hurricane killed more than 1,400 people on the island last year ― over 20 times the official death toll.

An independent analysis commissioned by Puerto Rican Gov. Ricardo Roselló and published Tuesday by researchers at George Washington University’s Milken Institute School of Public Health estimated the hurricane killed 2,975 people. That would make it the deadliest U.S. natural disaster in over 100 years.

The new analysis offered a more modest estimate than a Harvard study published in May, which reported roughly 4,645 people died in the aftermath of Maria. But both studies confirm what many experts have suspected ― that the hurricane’s death toll was likely in the thousands, far greater than the 64 deaths initially acknowledged by the government.

link

FEMA has nothing to do with death tolls.
“The actual counting of disaster-related fatalities is the responsibility of local jurisdictions, not FEMA,” William Booher, a spokesman for FEMA, wrote in a statement to Vox. “Our continued focus is on supporting Puerto Rico and disaster survivors through the recovery.”

The 64 came from the Puerto Rican government and was amended by them to the new figure following a commissioned study. You should know what you are talking about before you post. Not just make shit up.

Links to the two major studies done:

https://publichealth.gwu.edu/sites/defa ... 20Rico.pdf

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMsa1803972
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 08:30:00

Rep. Nydia Velazquez, a New York Democrat, said the report shows the U.S. government failed the people of Puerto Rico.

“These numbers are only the latest to underscore that the federal response to the hurricanes was disastrously inadequate and, as a result, thousands of our fellow American citizens lost their lives,” she said in a statement. […]


https://apnews.com/a705e74a39494a089955 ... arly-3,000
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 09:42:37

A new study suggests over 5,000 died in Puerto Rico due to Hurricane MariaTrump has essentially ignored the island's plight His administration bungled the hurricane response efforts, leaving many Americans to dieTo all this, the media is focused on other stories with regards to Trump, letting him off the hook for Maria



Our estimate of 4645 excess deaths from September 20 through December 31, 2017, is likely to be conservative since subsequent adjustments for survivor bias and household-size distributions increase this estimate to more than 5000,” the study argues.

The official government count of 64 only included those who directly died from the storm; drownings and being hit by debris. It does not include indirect deaths, which account for the vast majority of those who lost their lives due to the hurricane. Harvard’s mortality count, however, accounts for indirect deaths, and thus puts the number of lives lost in the thousands.

Put simply, Hurricane Maria is one of the worst disasters to ever hit the United States, and the U.S. government has not acknowledged that. Its misrepresentative death toll amounts to disavowal of the damage Maria caused.
By going to the island and interviewing thousands of families to determine if they lost relatives, then extrapolating the data island-wide, the study estimates that 4,645 people died thanks to Hurricane Maria. Although that number represents the median of 793 to 8498 estimated deaths, the study posits that many more than 4,600 people died. [/quote]

https://www.albawaba.com/news/5000-dead ... na-1141732
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 11:05:02

I would like to ask a question. Somebody with a political agenda has invented a new way of generating casualty figures. It may or may not be valid, it may or may not be applicable to other disasters, it may or may not be something that we continue to do in the future. The figures seem to be highly questionable, to say the least, because they have generated an "estimated" figure that is over 48X the prior total, the 64 people for which we have bodies, names, and death certificates that identify Maria as the direct cause of death.

The timing is suspicious. In just two weeks, Maria's first anniversary happens on September 16. A number of rule changes are associated with this date. For example, FEMA will pay only 90% of the relief efforts, instead of 100%. (The PR government is expected to fund the 10%.) As time passes, the percentage that the Feds are willing to pay for will decline further.

One hint is that it has been suggested that Trump, the Republicans, and FEMA "don't care" about these people because they are brown-skinned and Spanish-speaking. That would seem to indicate this whole kerfuffle is about politics as usual. I suspect also that the not-so-hidden agenda is a bunch of people who want the Feds to dump an even bigger boatload of money in PR than they already have.

Allow me to make a suggestion about the real underlying motive. Those elected officials (all by an odd coincidence Democrats) want to make sure that the revenues that they are stealing will continue to flow unabated. Because in case you didn't know this, the island's officials have asked for another $90 Billion. But IMHO you cannot make a case that Maria caused damages anything like Katrina, Sandy, or the 1-2 punch of Harvey/Irma.

http://theconversation.com/how-corruption-slows-disaster-recovery-96832

https://www.theepochtimes.com/puerto-rico-officials-investigated-for-corruption-during-hurricane-relief_2560097.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-puertorico-prepa-probe/u-s-house-panel-probes-corruption-allegations-at-puerto-rico-utility-idUSKCN1GP03P

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/puerto-rico-energy-authority-investigates-dozens-of-post-maria-bribery-cases
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby careinke » Sun 02 Sep 2018, 23:54:28

Cid_Yama wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:I guess you missed the first part of my post.

You mistake me for someone who cares what you or your brainwashed cohorts think. Had no delusions with regards to you idiots.


The way it is, not an ad hom. Notice I am speaking about how I perceive you and your cohorts, that I could care less what you think and why, and how I did not expect anything said to impact you whatsoever.


Then why bother?
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 02:53:40

I'm posting the facts, with documentation, for those who actually have a grip on reality. The Fox echo chamber crowd, although the loudest, are not the only ones here.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cog » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 04:35:35

The proper phrase is "I could not care less". To say "You could care less" implies that you still have some care about the matter at hand. I do not wish you to sound like a rube Cid. People might think you are a Trump supporter.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 11:24:15

Reality? Somebody publishes a political hit piece, whereby they count destroyed and damaged houses, and extrapolate the number of dead people? Where they survey a tiny fraction of 1% of the island population about their OPINIONS of how many people COULD have died in the weeks and months following the storm, and use the responses to claim that the death toll is 48X the total you get by counting dead bodies?

WE don't seem to be the ones with a poor grip on reality here, Cid. Nor is Fox News, in spite of your prejudices, doing anything but reporting the news as released by PR: http://video.foxnews.com/v/5828292278001/?#sp=show-clips (I did a search and that's the only Maria article less than 6 months old.)

Why don't you actually think this through and before you spring to attention with a twanging sound, consider that politics exists, and certain people are suffering from TDS (Trump derangement syndrome) and FNDS (Fox News derangement syndrome). They see everything through a partisan haze that distorts their viewpoints, they are in fact deluding themselves.

Why don't we wait for the keepers of the statistics to react to that document published just a few days ago? Because any responses like yours, based on partisan prejudices, simply are not helpfull.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 16 Sep 2018, 04:17:21

I see the Fox echo chamber crowd resurrected an old thread to avoid the documentation that shows that the Puerto Rican Government COMMISSIONED the study to FIND OUT just how many had died, and have CHANGED their estimate to what was determined by the commissioned study.

You guys a are a bunch of dildoes. You won't accept the actual facts, which were obvious from the start.

OH! IT'S SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY TO MAKE TRUMP LOOK BAD! Give me a break. Trump makes himself look bad.
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Re: Maria 2nd Deadliest Hurricane to ever hit US

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 16 Sep 2018, 06:44:34

Cid, Don't act like you don't have a brain, because I know that isn't true. Your intellect however is damaged by two conditions called TDS and FNDS, which stand for "Trump derangement syndrome" and "Fox News derangement syndrome". Excessive partisanship and the Liberal disease are kinder ways of expressing it. Consider:

It is definately NOT "obviously true" that a brand new method of determining a death toll due to a storm is valid, especially when it produces a casualty figure that is up to 48X the figures determined by the prior methods. Those prior methods counted dead bodies immediately after the storm. They DID NOT look at the debris pile at a certain location, say "that was a four bedroom home, and about ten people no longer live there, and those ten people should be counted as casualties of hurricane Maria".

The truth of the matter is that we don't have good records of the rural areas of PR, for good reasons. These areas are marijuana farms, crack labs, and the Spanish-speaking places where Hispanic criminals who cannot survive in Mexico seek refuge. They are undocumented and can't very well apply for aid from FEMA and various "state" relief and welfare organizations, which PR has in plenty. I do not doubt a few of these wanted criminals perished during a major hurricane. But I don't care either. The underground economy in PR probably exceeds the legal one nowadays. Frankly, the legalization of marijuana in many US states is gonna bite that underground economy even bigger than Maria did.

As for the number of people who left that island, found much better jobs on the US mainland than they ever had before, and discovered that they didn't want to return to the island and live in relative poverty while earning much lower wages, good for them - they made it out of that corrupt Hellhole. But the government of PR, I strongly suspect, is calling those people casualties of Maria. This I suspect is an attempt to extort more money from the Feds, and to recoup some of the tax revenues they had from PR homeowners who will never rebuild.

Certainly, that has been the pattern in the past. The refugees from hurricane Katrina settled in 27+ other states, and many never returned to those below-sea-level areas of New Orleans. That is also a good thing, since one day soon, those areas will be abandonned.
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