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PeakOil is You

CO2 + H2O + Energy = synthetic fuel

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 07:28:31

So basically they are using the excess available water to power the process?
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 11:16:35

Newfie wrote:So basically they are using the excess available water to power the process?


Well, water and apparently a HELL of a lot of energy (red text below mine for emphasis). With a target price of "under 2 euros per liter", it attempts to be "affordable" in the scheme of European taxation.

Since it uses CO2 from the atmosphere, apparently the main goodness is a CO2 neutral process for the hydrocarbons produced (once they're consumed).

8000 tons of blue crude a year is a TINY number in the face of global consumption of 30 billion plus barrels of crude a year, but it's a start IF it can be shown to be commercially viable at scale.

https://www.sunfire.de/en/company/press ... -in-norway

Dresden (Germany), July 10th 2017. The mass production of the environmentally friendly synthetic crude oil substitute Blue Crude becomes reality: from 2020 the first plant shall start its operation in the industrial park Heroya in Norway. It will be operating with an electric capacity of 20 megawatts, producing 8,000 tons of Blue Crude per year. Nordic Blue Crude AS, Sunfire, Climeworks, EDL Anlagenbau and additional partners have already started with the engineering. The synthetic Blue Crude consists of various hydrocarbons – making it comparable with crude oil. Refineries can use it as raw material for waxes, but also petrol, diesel, kerosene and even rocket fuel.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby lpetrich » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 13:26:33

30 billion barrels ~= 3.7 - 4.1 billion metric tons of crude oil (275 - 300 lbs/bbl).

2 euros/liter ~= 8.86 dollars/gallon at current exchange rates.
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 13:27:47

OK, so Norway is going to use some of its cheap hydro to make motor fuel. In the meantime almost half (48.1 %) of the net electricity generated in the EU-28 in 2015 came from combustible fuels such as natural gas (much of which is imported from Russia), coal and oil. And the majority of the recent increase came from Norway's neighbor Germany. Makes sense to me. LOL. Actually it does if Norway makes a better profit from selling "blue crude" then electricity.

Nothing personal...just good business on the part of the Norwigians.
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby baha » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 13:32:41

That's cool OS,

That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 14:07:03

lpetrich wrote:30 billion barrels ~= 3.7 - 4.1 billion metric tons of crude oil (275 - 300 lbs/bbl).

2 euros/liter ~= 8.86 dollars/gallon at current exchange rates.

Yup. Sorry, I estimated that in my head after looking up the weight of a barrel of crude oil as roughly 300 pounds, but I didn't write it down.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 14:10:32

baha wrote:That's cool OS,

That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Injection?
(transitive) To push or pump (something, especially fluids) into a cavity or passage. The nurse injected a painkilling drug into the veins of my forearm. ... (intransitive) To take or be administered something by means of injection, especially medicine or drugs.


Exactly. Carbon sequestration is a Happy Drug for Happy People to believe in lol
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sat 23 Jun 2018, 14:16:02

baha wrote:That's cool OS,

That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Cool, yes. But affordable or scalable? Maybe not.

Call it 4+ billion tons of crude consumed a year, based on 35 billion barrels or so as ballpark figures I found.

So with this plant producing 8 thousand tons a year, it would take a MILLION of them to produce 8 billion tons.

So 500,000ish to produce the 4 billion tons of oil consumed today, for roughly $8 to $9 a gallon of gasoline equivalent price of the oil products the world needs.

FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND PLANTS. All consuming a LOT of energy, by the way.

I'd call it cool, interesting, and a good start. But we're a LONG way from a practical, affordable solution on a planetary scale, IMO.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby lpetrich » Tue 26 Jun 2018, 01:38:13

baha wrote:That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Make some synfuel then pump it down an old oil well?

Might be easier to run the process until one gets wax, then dump the wax into any convenient place. Being solid, it won't leak away.
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Re: Gas-to-Liquids (GTL)

Unread postby Zarquon » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 14:15:11

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
baha wrote:That's cool OS,

That is a technology that can be used to sequester CO2. Make it, inject down an old oil well, and cap it. The industrial revolution in reverse :)

Cool, yes. But affordable or scalable? Maybe not.

Call it 4+ billion tons of crude consumed a year, based on 35 billion barrels or so as ballpark figures I found.

So with this plant producing 8 thousand tons a year, it would take a MILLION of them to produce 8 billion tons.


Does anyone have a picture of the plant? Assuming they run it 24/7, with 10% downtime, that's a production rate of, hmmm, roughly one ton or cubic meter per hour. The flow rate of your kitchen tap. So whatever you call it, it's not exactly industrial scale production. More like something to set up in a garage. OK, a large garage. With a 20MW wall socket.
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