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Saudi Aramco IPO

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 12:45:43

Ignorance? Stupidity? Arrogance? Or maybe they just changed their minds. Who knows?


you have to be pretty naive to believe that. Right out of the gate they hired two of the largest investment banks in the world to help them with the process along with the two largest reserve auditors. Even if for some reason ARAMCO management wasn't aware of disclosure requirements (which is really stupid to believe given they have a lot of money trading in international exchanges worldwide) they would have been instructed right at the start of the process as to what would happen. If they were worried about disclosure they would have stopped the process early on and would not be out there now trying to sell a bond in international markets.

But the fact remains that the reserve and financial audits have not been released for public examination, as would be required if ARAMCO was to actually move forward with the IPO in a western bourse.


The minute they submit the prospectus to wherever they end up listing all of the audits become public domain. This would happen on Hong Kong as well as New York or London. The prospectus is only submitted a few weeks prior to listing, it is essentially one of the final steps.

Once again please put a sock in it until such time as there is an official statement from ARAMCO or the Saudi Gov't.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 13:03:51

If they were worried about disclosure they would have stopped the process early on


Earth to crocdoc. Perhaps that is why the IPO process has been stalled since early on in 2016.....

and would not be out there now trying to sell a bond in international markets.


Wrong again. ARAMCO selling bonds has nothing to do with the IPO. ARAMCO is selling the bonds to finance their takeover of SABIC which is going ahead this year.

Try to keep up.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 13:25:32

There have been a few IPO where the underwriters lost money…at least on paper. The underwriters are typically huge investors: 100’s of $millions if not $billions. If the underwriters won’t commit to a company’s acceptable price then no IPO.


one of the investment banks that were originally retained by ARAMCO as advisors (J.P. Morgan, Morgan Stanley, HSBC) will almost certainly end up being the book-runner and the other two along with possibly Goldman Sachs and Citibank would form the syndicate. Each of those investment banks would have a piece of the IPO to sell. It seems like it is the investment banks buying the pre-released shares but in fact they offer up their part of the IPO to select clients. The price is decided once the IPO is accepted by the exchange. In my own experience, this is done by taking into account the valuation arrived at through the reserve audit process along with discussions around how attractive the stock might be, what the competition is etc. The book-runner of the syndicate has to take into account what the gross spread is (ie difference between the price listed and the price the syndicate pays per share, generally around 7%). That amount is shared amongst the syndicate. They also want to list at a price that will not create a lot of necessary early stabilization (i.e. the book-runner is responsible for buying shares below or above list price in the market for the first period it is trading in order to try to stabilize the price which is why you can see wild swings in price the first week or so of trading). The discussion will insue around whether it is necessary to low-ball the price in order to get several times oversubscribed which usually has a positive impact on share price as trading begins. Interestingly enough the banks actually won't make a pile of money by being part of the IPO syndicate for ARAMCO. They want to be involved in order to assure additional M&A business with ARAMCO going forward. Personally, I can't see that ARAMCO will have any problem being oversubscribed with an IPO unless their price demand or amount of outstanding shares is completely ridiculous. There are a lot of banks climbing all over each other to get involved so I suspect ARAMCO is in a pretty strong negotiating position.

Earth to crocdoc. Perhaps that is why the IPO process has been stalled since early on in 2016.....


It wasn't stalled early on. At each and every opportunity since they started down this road ARAMCO had stated they were on target with their original goal of an end 2018 listing. Throughout the period you claim they were stalled they were busy completing all the work necessary to put an IPO in place. This is not meagre given the size and complexity of the deal. The first time they came out and hinted it would be delayed until 2019 was in January of this year when Khalid al-Falih stated
We hope that 2018 will be the right time, but ultimately we have to make sure the market is ready,


Wrong again. ARAMCO selling bonds has nothing to do with the IPO. ARAMCO is selling the bonds to finance their takeover of SABIC which is going ahead this year.


I see English really is a second language for you. What I said was that by selling bonds on the international market they are subject to the same level of disclosure scrutiny with regards to finances and reserves (given this is the main backstopping value of the corporation) as they would be when listed.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 14:12:42

At each and every opportunity since they started down this road ARAMCO had stated they were on target with their original goal of an end 2018 listing.


That isn't true. There was no mention of a 2018 target date for the IPO in their initial announcements. Even the statement by the CEO of ARAMCO in early 2018 doesn't set a late 2018 IPO date.

The CEO of ARAMCO also said he doesn't plan on doing the IPO in NY, London or Hong Kong as you falsely claim. The CEO said they will list in KSA. Of course, disclosure requirements will be minimal if the IPO comes out only in a KSA bourse.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/02/aramco-ipo-changes-the-dynamics-of-saudi-arabia-economy.html

And finally, the news story predates the Crown Prince influencing ARAMCO to sell bonds and buy the states shares of SABIC for ca. 50-60 billion, thereby providing the money the Crown Prince wants for infrastructure projects and obviating any need for ARAMCO to do an IPO to raise money for KSA infrastructure projects---.

Thus it makes sense when recent news reports in the WSJ and elsewhere (see my links and cogent discussion up the thread) say the IPO is stalled out and may not happen at all now.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby GASMON » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 14:52:48

So the Saudis are running short on money, millions of young mouths to feed over there. Natives may get restless and revolt. They cant exist on just sand and camel piss.

Am I right the Saudis intend to raise international money by selling bonds in existing petro chemical plant in SA. But the oil that feeds these plants comes from KSA oilfields that have undeclared remaining capacity ? - I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole - very dodgy.

I'll stick with my Royal Dutch Shell shares - nice dividend four times a year !!

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 15:20:32

That isn't true. There was no mention of a 2018 target date for the IPO in their initial announcements. Even the statement by the CEO of ARAMCO in early 2018 doesn't set a late 2018 IPO da


From Financial Post Article in Oct 6, 2016

Saudi Arabia, under pressure from lower crude prices, wants to sell shares in Aramco in early 2018 as part of an effort to generate revenue and reform its economy. The government hopes to raise about $100 billion from the IPO of its flagship asset. The planned sale, which Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman announced in April, could be the world’s largest share offering.


From Forbes on Feb 25th, 2017

Initially, the IPO was expected to take place in early 2018, but the expected date has since been pushed off to late 2018 or early 2019


The CEO of ARAMCO also said he doesn't plan on doing the IPO in NY, London or Hong Kong as you falsely claim. The CEO said they will list in KSA. Of course, disclosure requirements will be minimal if the IPO comes out only in a KSA bourse.


He did not say he doesn't plan on doing the IPO in NY, London or Hong Kong...he mentioned they will list on the Saudi bourse but it is almost certainly not large enough to offer out 5% of ARAMCO.

In January of this year in a Financial Post article:

Saudi Arabia has shortlisted New York, London and Hong Kong — singly or in a combination of two or even all three — for the international portion of the listing of national oil company Aramco, two sources with knowledge of the discussions said.

The initial public offering (IPO) will also include the Saudi stock exchange, Tadawul, and is still set for late 2018, the sources said.

The shortlist means Tokyo, Singapore and Toronto are no longer in the running for what is likely to be the world’s biggest IPO


And finally, the news story predates the Crown Prince influencing ARAMCO to sell bonds and buy the states shares of SABIC for ca. 50-60 billion, thereby providing the money the Crown Prince wants for infrastructure projects and obviating any need for ARAMCO to do an IPO to raise money for KSA infrastructure projects---.

Thus it makes sense when recent news reports in the WSJ and elsewhere (see my links and cogent discussion up the thread) say the IPO is stalled out and may not happen at all now.


as usual, your arguments are all over the place. The whole point is that your claim the IPO is being avoided because SA is worried about disclosure is completely stupid when you take into account that the issuance of bonds on the international market will demand the same level of disclosure as the IPO.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 16:01:13

...completely stupid ..


It appears you are the one who is completely stupid, as well as being exceptionally rude. OK, lets bring the discussion down to your stupid and rude level....

You're the one claiming the news report from Oct 2016 was the "initial" announcement when the IPO was first announced in January 2016. I guess you're too stupid to know the difference January and October.

Similarly, you are the one claiming the IPO is set for late 2018, when the ARAMCO announcements say no such thing. In fact the latest public statement by an ARAMCO insider just a week ago said it will slip into 2019 and maybe later, while off the record ARAMCO insiders are saying the IPO may not happen at all. I guess you're too stupid to know the difference between 2018 and 2019 and subsequent years.

AND, you are the one claiming the IPO will be listed in New York, London, and/or Hong Kong when there is no scheduled listing in any of those places, and the ARAMCO CEO in his most recent statement talked about bringing it out in KSA. I guess you're too stupid to know the difference between the tiny Saudi Arabian bourse and the major bourses in New York, London, etc.

Finally, you clearly don't have the necessary wit to understand that the situation has changed since ARAMCO decided to go into the bond market to raise billions instead of doing an IPO to raise billions.

Its a pretty simple concept, i.e. the bond issue represents an alternative way for ARAMCO to raise money. Why can't you understand that? Oh, thats right. You are too stupid to understand simple ideas like that.

aramco-is-said-to-weigh-global-bond-sale

I quote from the link above--an article in Bloomberg:

Bond issue could signal shift from planned IPO for oil giant

Saudi Aramco is weighing tapping the international bond market for the first time to finance the acquisition of petrochemical giant Sabic, a move into global capital markets that could offer an alternative to an initial public offering, according to people familiar with the talks.

The Aramco-Sabic deal could give Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman a shrewd way to avoid an IPO

Do you get it now?

And there's more. You just claimed the bond sale would require identical full disclosure---just like an IPO. But as usual---your claim isn't true.

An IPO would indeed require total disclosure so that IPO buyers could evaluate the value of ARAMCO and the value of the IPO. The Bond would not require full disclosure of the value of ARAMCO. And that is a very important distinction.

Again, I quote from the Bloomberg article in my link above:

Raising cash from bondholders solves another problem: Aramco’s valuation. MBS, as the 32-year-old crown prince is known, said the company would be worth at least $2 trillion -- more than double the current market valuation of Apple Inc. -- and perhaps as much as $2.5 trillion. Yet most analysts and investors have said that $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion was more realistic. A bond won’t put a value on the company.

Do you get it now? For the second time in one post, for heaven's sake DO YOU GET IT NOW?

Sheesh!!!! :roll:

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 16:44:37

You're the one claiming the news report from Oct 2016 was the "initial" announcement when the IPO was first announced in January 2016. I guess you're too stupid to know the difference January and October


I did not say that did I? Again showing your poor reading skills

What I posted was a quote from a Financial Post article in Oct 2016 that states SA wants to sell shares in ARAMCO in early 2018 and that the planned sale was announced in April by MBS. What that means is that from a few months past the original announcement 2018 was the target….it has been delayed once in early 2018 so it is hardly something that has stalled continually. As well in January of 2018 the gov't changed the status of ARAMCO to a joint-stock company, something they would never have done if they weren't going to list it.

Similarly, you are the one claiming the IPO is set for late 2018, when the ARAMCO announcements say no such thing.


Are you that dense? Did you not read anything I’ve posted above in this very repetitive thread? I acknowledged that the CEO of ARAMCO stated officially in an interview in June that the IPO would be delayed (not cancelled, not put on hold) and that the actual timing was the decision to be made by MBS but hopefully in 2019.

AND, you are the one claiming the IPO will be listed in New York, London, and/or Hong Kong when there is no scheduled listing in any of those places, and the ARAMCO CEO in his most recent statement talked about bringing it out in KSA. I guess you're too stupid to know the difference between the tiny Saudi Arabian bourse and the major bourses in New York, London, etc.


Again the quote I gave was from an article in FP in January of this year where it states that NY, London and Hong Kong have been shortlisted and that the IPO would include the Tadawul. Of course, there is no scheduled listing in any of these places, duh. That "schedule" would not be announced until they had finished all the filings and had approvals from the relevant exchanges, at which point the perspectus is released. Do you not read anything posted here or are you just illiterate?

Finally, you clearly don't have the necessary wit to understand that the situation has changed since ARAMCO decided to go into the bond market to raise billions instead of doing an IPO to raise billions.


Where did anyone from the ministry or ARAMCO state that they were doing the deal with SABIC in order to cancel the IPO? Quite simply it was never said. It is speculation in the press and nothing more. Which I have said about 3 or 4 times in this very repetitive thread. Again when you have someone from the ministry or ARAMCO stating ...."we no longer will be doing an IPO as the SABIC deal will solve all the issues" get back to us.

Do you get it now? For the second time in one post, for heaven's sake DO YOU GET IT NOW?


Why are you continually trying to spin the argument from one thing to another? What I said, for one last time, is that contrary to your continual claim that SA wants to avoid disclosure and hence has put an IPO on hold for that reason …..the issuance of bonds on the international market demands the same disclosure. So if they were canceling the IPO because of disclosure worries (which you have claimed several times) why would they be pursuing a bond that requires similar disclosure? What part of that very simple statement do you not understand?

As to buying SABIC removing the need for an IPO, a cash grab was not the only reason MBS was pushing the idea of sale of a portion of ARAMCO. He wants to bring SA into the modern world and by increasing the size of the Tadawul and listing ARAMCO locally and internationally he helps accomplishes that goal. He sees ARAMCO as the being the largest international integrated oil and gas company...that can't happen if it isn't listed at some point.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 17:33:04

dense...


Speaking of denseness, I notice you didn't respond to my point about the IPO requiring full disclosure by ARAMCO while a bond doesn't have the same requirements. The article in Bloomberg I linked to was pretty clear on this, wasn't it?

Did you intentionally ignore this point because your claim that they both require identical disclosure on Aramco's part is so clearly wrong, or were you too dense to understand the point itself?

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 17:53:18

Speaking of denseness, I notice you didn't respond to my point about the IPO requiring full disclosure by ARAMCO while a bond doesn't have the same requirements. The article in Bloomberg I linked to was pretty clear on this, wasn't it?


UH....I think you are mistaken. I also think you don't understand what disclosure entails.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-26/aramco-is-said-to-weigh-global-bond-sale-to-finance-sabic-deal

If Aramco goes ahead with an international bond -- potentially among the biggest ever done by a corporate issuer -- the sale would force the world’s largest oil producer to disclose its accounts to investors for the first time since nationalization four decades ago as well as many other details about oil reserves and operations.


The only thing they would avoid is having to do a valuation which is part and parcel of an IPO. A bond doesn't put a "market value" on the company but it does entail doing all the same disclosure necessary once the prospectus is issued.

so get your facts straight.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 21:17:29

Speaking of denseness, I notice you didn't respond to my point about the IPO requiring full disclosure by ARAMCO while a bond doesn't have the same requirements. The article in Bloomberg I linked to was pretty clear on this, wasn't it?


The only thing they would avoid is having to do a valuation which is part and parcel of an IPO....
so get your facts straight.


I suggest your get your facts straight. You just admitted in your post that the Bond will have different disclosure requirements then an IPO which is exactly what I said in my post.

So...if we both agree now that there is is no need when issuing a bond to do a full public disclosure of financial and oil reserve information as ARAMCO would have to do if it went ahead with the IPO, then lets consider what actually is required when issuing a bond.

1. An IPO offering would require full public disclosure of financials and information on oil reserves so investors can look at all the numbers and make their own estimates of the value of ARAMCO.

2. BUT a Bond offering doesn't have the same requirements at all---ARAMCO will simply have to show credit rating agencies that it is "credit worthy." In this process ARAMCO's financial and oil reserve information is not disclosed and is not made public. Instead, one or more rating agencies will examine ARAMCO's books and then It will be up to the credit rating agency to give the Bond a rating.

3. Then the proposed Bonds will go on sale in the market. Investors will NEVER see all of ARAMCO's financials and oil reserve info as they would in an IPO. This data will never be made public.

4. That means an ARAMCO Bond would go through a totally different process with different standards then ARAMCO would face in issuing an IPO, where a full public disclosure would have to be made.

Do you get get it now? :lol: :P :roll: :!:

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 22:41:49

I suggest your get your facts straight. You just admitted in your post that the Bond will have different disclosure requirements then an IPO which is exactly what I said in my post.


wrong, wrong, wrong. The disclosure for reserves and finances is the same and that is all that is actually "disclosed" at this point in an IPO or a bond offering. Valuation is not disclosure, if you think it is then you should stay away from the stock market. In the case of an IPO the valuation is determined in conjunction with the book-runner or lead investment bank and that is based on an assessment of the reserves valuation and financials along with what they believe the market will bear, it isn't "disclosed" it is calculated. There is no formal need in a bond offering to do a formal valuation (which again is not a part of disclosure) but they will be scrutinized with regards to corporate financials and reserves. So the disclosure part is exactly the same which you would understand if you actually read something here. And what the author of the Bloomberg article hasn't figured out is that with the disclosure required for a bond (reserves and financials) anyone with a modicum of knowledge can actually replicate the NPV of the corporation, it is quite simple to do so. So, in fact, the bond puts out everything in front of Investors (either subscribers to the IPO or the bond issue) that the IPO would other than a market deciding on what the price of a stock should be (and once again in case you missed it there is nothing to do with valuation that is considered a part of disclosure).

So...if we both agree now that there is is no need when issuing a bond to do a full public disclosure of financial and oil reserve information as ARAMCO would have to do if it went ahead with the IPO, then lets consider what actually is required when issuing a bond.


Ok one more time this is what the Bloomberg article states:

If Aramco goes ahead with an international bond -- potentially among the biggest ever done by a corporate issuer -- the sale would force the world’s largest oil producer to disclose its accounts to investors for the first time since nationalization four decades ago as well as many other details about oil reserves and operations.


Do you actually have a clue what you are reading?

2. BUT a Bond offering doesn't have the same requirements at all---ARAMCO will simply have to show credit rating agencies that it is "credit worthy." In this process ARAMCO's financial and oil reserve information is not disclosed and is not made public. Instead, one or more rating agencies will examine ARAMCO's books and then It will be up to the credit rating agency to give the Bond a rating.


horseshit....all of the financial records and reserve information and other information regarding operations becomes available to the rating agency and anyone who takes a piece of the bond.

. That means an ARAMCO Bond would go through a totally different process with different standards then ARAMCO would face in issuing an IPO, where a full public disclosure would have to be made.


no, no and once again no. As the Bloomberg article points out issuing the bond puts all of the reserve and financial information out there. Depending on where the bond is offered this information will be available to bankers and will certainly be "out there" in short order. As well a corporate bond unlike a government bond (ARAMCO is not considered a "gov't" ) is also subject to rules around "continuous disclosure". For all intents and purposes, this means ARAMCO would be treated exactly as they would be if their shares were publicly listed. They are required to continually report on material changes to their business. This is precisely what happened to the Korean National Oil Company when they acquired a Canadian company and chose to finance that through bonds. They were surprised to find out that they were subject to the same stringent rules as a publicly traded company.

lets review what the Bloomberg article said once again given it seems you can't read.

If Aramco goes ahead with an international bond -- potentially among the biggest ever done by a corporate issuer -- the sale would force the world’s largest oil producer to disclose its accounts to investors for the first time since nationalization four decades ago as well as many other details about oil reserves and operations.


Where ever you are getting your information from ....it is wildly wrong.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 23:07:42

The disclosure for reserves and finances is the same and that is all that is actually "disclosed" at this point in an IPO or a bond offering.


When have you ever seen an oil company's books and data on oil reserves opened to the public as part of a Bond offering?

The credit rating agencies get to look through the books and evaluate the company's finances, yes, and on that basis they rate the bond quality.

But the banks and the public who purchase the bonds....no. They don't get to see the company's financial or asset data when a company issues a Bond. They have to go by the rating given to the Bond by the bond agencies. They don't get to independently see the reserves data and financials themselves.

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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 10:05:54

Doc - " Each of those investment banks would have a piece of the IPO to sell." Great description of how the brokerage companies control the game initially. I suspect few understood how the initial offering price and timing is determined.

I was too tired to finish my story. LOL.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 11:38:00

When have you ever seen an oil company's books and data on oil reserves opened to the public as part of a Bond offering?


If it is a corporate bond and not a private placement in most exchanges the requirement is that full disclosure must be made to the regulatory body and to all participants in the bond offering (this is essentially the same as the prospectus for an initial public offering and includes secondary trade to individuals). So if you are an individual buying that bond you recieve the long form prospectus (ARAMCO would have to do a long form prospectus since they are not public traded and not a common issuer of bonds). As an example, if they were issuing bonds in the US the SEC requires submission of 3 years of financial data (audited under GAAP or IFRS provisions) and information regarding all the assets, which in the case of an oil and gas company includes reserves. And if it is not a private placement then the corporation is subject to rules requiring "continuous disclosure" which means they are required to submit quarterly reports to the SEC and also press release on any material changes. Anyone can access the SEC information, so in essence, that information becomes public. But even if they went the route of private placement (which would be nearly impossible to do given the size of the bond required) that disclosure information gets out to those involved in the private placement....in essence more and more people aware of the information which would be impossible to keep secret. Where you seem to be confused is the difference between a corporate bond issued by a reporting issuer (someone who already is listed) versus a corporate bond issued by a non-reporting issuer. In the case of a reporting issuer, all of the information has already been disclosed and that corporation is under obligations of "continuous disclosure" so they do not have additional requirements for disclosure. This exemption does not apply to non-reporting issuers which, currently, ARAMCO would be.

But the banks and the public who purchase the bonds....no. They don't get to see the company's financial or asset data when a company issues a Bond. They have to go by the rating given to the Bond by the bond agencies. They don't get to independently see the reserves data and financials themselv


I suggest you do a bit of learning as to how private companies can issue corporate bonds, how that works and what is required. What was stated in the Bloomberg article and what I have stated are exactly correct. Simply repeating your ill-informed viewpoint about how securities are exchanged is not helpful.

As I said, the only possible way that ARAMCO could issue a corporate bond and avoid broad-based disclosure rules is if they did the whole thing through private placement. This would have to be done solely to "accredited investors" (i.e. investment banks) who would have no rights for secondary trade. Although there is no formal size limits on private placement there is no way in the world they could do something this size without a very, very large syndicate. In that case you suddenly have all the financial and reserve information available to a large number of banks...try keeping that secret for any length of time. The size of private placements tend to be self-restricting given investment banks want the right for secondary trade as it is how they can make money immediately on the bond, they do not generally like to hold onto bonds until the maturity date.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 13:14:11

Not sure where to put this but Saudi Arabia is now heavily investing in Tesla.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/07/tesla-s ... as-2-.html

I'm sure some will use this report to claim that it's proof that the Ghawar is post-peak, but it's definitely an inflection-point.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 14:17:56

The Saudi Princesses just don't like that yucky dirty gasoline anymore. It's always getting all over the leather seats. Rather have their money in driverless/virtual cars. Already put money in Uber. Now it's Tesla. Next the Hyperloopy?

More evidence the Great Saudi Arabian Oil Company of the past (and all its treasures) are up for a fire sale. Fumes burn . . . but vapors explode.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Cog » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 16:47:59

Its a smart play for the Saudi's either way. They reap incredible gains if EV becomes a thing and they continue to sell oil if its not.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 17:32:54

what I mentioned on another thread is that Tesla had trading halted today because there were rumors it would be privatized at $420/share. Likely when the Saudis bought their shares it was around $360 or so which means they will have made a $100 MM+ profit in a short time.
I'm sure why they invested was simply in line with the plan of diversifying the PIF holdings out of the oil and gas business.
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Re: Saudi Aramco IPO

Unread postby Cog » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 17:43:25

And with a little advanced notice, those same Saudi's can sell those shares and then short the stock before the deal falls through and reap millions in profits the other way.

Musk better really have backers to take Tesla private or the SEC is going to burn his ass. Clear violation of SEC rules if he doesn't.
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