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THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 15:31:12

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... conference

The oceans’ last chance: ‘It has taken years of negotiations to set this up’


Wildlife in most of the lawless high seas faces an existential threat from fishing, shipping and the military. Next month, a landmark UN conference could finally bring hope
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 20 Aug 2018, 17:47:25

Well speed it up, because
"Our Planet Is Exploding With Ocean Dead Zones"
https://amp.businessinsider.com/map-of- ... nes-2013-6
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Mon 20 Aug 2018, 21:43:30

onlooker wrote:Well speed it up, because
"Our Planet Is Exploding With Ocean Dead Zones"
https://amp.businessinsider.com/map-of- ... nes-2013-6


Coastal dead zones are nasty for fish and other marine life. But the light at the end of the tunnel is the oncoming freight train of global scale low oxygen zone growth. As posted before these zones are rapidly expanding and will be an issue by 2030. Together with the coastal zones there will be a biochemical regime change in the coming decades from CO2 emissions to CH4 and H2S emissions. Bacterial activity will not cease and neither will be the food supply to these bacteria. Instead the species that reduce rather than oxidize will dominate. The ocean is full of sulfate (at least 5 times more than in fresh waters) and this is a prime source of energy for a family of detritus consuming bacteria. In addition to reducing sulfate, they can consume labile organic matter but release CH4 instead of CO2 in the process.

The MSM is utterly devoid of this subject. And the science community is snoozing at the wheel.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 20 Aug 2018, 22:21:49

Thanks for that insight, dis.

It seems to me that one dubious source of hope on that front is that this time around, we have already stripped the oceans of so much life, there will not be all that much 'detritus' to be turned into H2S...but then again, I've probably missed something...as usual... :oops:
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dissident » Tue 21 Aug 2018, 10:14:51

dohboi wrote:Thanks for that insight, dis.

It seems to me that one dubious source of hope on that front is that this time around, we have already stripped the oceans of so much life, there will not be all that much 'detritus' to be turned into H2S...but then again, I've probably missed something...as usual... :oops:


Most detritus mass comes from plankton rather than higher organisms. We will have "plankton" activity in the topmost ocean surface layer for thousands of years to come. There will be sufficient oxygen, light and nutrients to drive this ecosystem. Of course, it will undergo species transition to those that can tolerate more H2S and other toxic gases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

Previous anoxic events did not shut down the microbe activity.

The perfect storm we are facing is mind boggling. So many factors are lining up just right to make it as bad as possible. This is something human intuition cannot handle.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 09:47:28

Thanks for that point...I guess... :cry:
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 14:18:25

...and in another few millions of years, the detritus layers become oil after being subjected to heat and pressure and lack of oxygen under the ocean floor. A new age of oil will begin...
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 25 Aug 2018, 20:17:17

Another learned voice pointing out that planetary catastrophe is upon us:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2018/08 ... rier-reef/
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 30 Sep 2018, 18:48:47

China's super trawlers are stripping the ocean bare as its hunger for seafood grows



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-30/c ... fmredir=sm
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 30 Sep 2018, 19:29:49

onlooker wrote:
China's super trawlers are stripping the ocean bare as its hunger for seafood grows



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-30/c ... fmredir=sm
When they get the seas sufficiently empty of fish there will be no profit in it even with subsidies. At that point they will stop fishing and with time the fish stocks will recover. What happened with the whaling industry foretells the outcome.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 01 Oct 2018, 06:17:36

Not necessiraially. The cod stocks off Newfoundland collapsed in 1998. There has been a moratorium for the last 20 years. The stocks did not recover for over 10 years. Eventually they started a slow increase. They are now about 13% of historic levels. Not out of the woods yet.

It is possible to push stocks if not to outright extinction, to the king where something changes in the exological balance. Add to that the various stresses of ocean changes, such as increasing water temp, which is driving North Sea cod off the banks they require.

Relatively rapid sea level rise won’t help because the existing wetlands will be lost and new ones may well not have time to establish efficiently. In short, it’s complicated and not very helpful.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 01 Oct 2018, 08:11:04

vtsnowedin wrote:
onlooker wrote:
China's super trawlers are stripping the ocean bare as its hunger for seafood grows



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-30/c ... fmredir=sm
When they get the seas sufficiently empty of fish there will be no profit in it even with subsidies. At that point they will stop fishing and with time the fish stocks will recover. What happened with the whaling industry foretells the outcome.


Provided they do not pass the tipping point of the particular species this is likely true, however some fish like Cod for example have a very long maturation cycle. They reach a salable weight a long time before they become reproductively active.

There are also issues with ecosystem degradation, a new study from Australia was on the news yesterday about endocrine disruption from degraded plastic in the South Pacific and Indian oceans. It turns out that all the measurements of 'plastic pollution' have a serious problem because measurements in earlier studied had a cut off point that was too high. These folks used water filters and determined that millions of sand grain and smaller pieces of plastic can be in places of high surface evaporation. The plastic is buoyant and stays near the top of the water column. In places of high evaporation the surface water blows away on the breeze leaving the solid plastics behind, something you see in places like the eastern Mediterranean or southwest Pacific near Australia and Micronesia.

The smaller the fragments get the more they enter the food chain. When they get down to 1-2mm in size many predatory species mistake them for floating eggs of fish or crustaceans and swallow them. When they get sand to dust sized the filter feeders, most of which live close to the surface relatively speaking, filter them out of the water along with the plankton they normally eat. For most species a little bit is no big deal, but the chemicals seeping out of the plastics are frequently endocrine disruptors that alter or destroy the life cycle of the animals that eats them depending on species sensitivity and total dose ingested.

On the flip side of that coin we have discovered several species of bacteria now that can break down plastics into digestible carbon containing molecules. We have not found them for all plastics by a long stretch and they are not very common at this point in history, but if the plastic in the oceans remains a long term problem nature will eventually clean it up by dint of bacteria that can digest the polymer chains into digestible fragments. On the Gripping hand it took nature many millions of years to develop and spread bacteria that can break down Lignin from woody plants, which is part of the reason so much Lignite coal exists. Nothing could digest it in the distant past so decay of wood would only proceed until the Lignin remained and layer after layer built up in the soil. Once one bacteria developed the digestive enzymes needed the inter species gene exchange spread that ability to other types of decay bacteria.

From a chemical viewpoint plastic polymers are not unlike Lignin or Starch, they require specialist enzymes to 'unzip' the molecules into individual, digestible fragments. This makes it is plausible that the kind of bacteria which have developed the enzymes for breaking down plastic polymers will cross spread that capability to assorted other decay bacteria. Especially if we give nature a hand by deliberately spreading the genes for the polymer breakdown to many other species of bacteria that already live in the surface water of the world oceans and topsoil where plastics get discarded constantly.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 01 Oct 2018, 09:11:36

Tanada, what about the thousands of "potentially Hazardous chemicals" that have been manufactured/released as this linked article cites . Will Nature naturally clean them up.? If not, can we also find ingenuios ways to get rid of them or neutralize them. For the scientists are warning us of this danger

https://www.sciencealert.com/you-expose ... dous-toxic
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 01 Oct 2018, 09:29:45

Tanada wrote:
Provided they do not pass the tipping point of the particular species this is likely true, however some fish like Cod for example have a very long maturation cycle. They reach a salable weight a long time before they become reproductively active.

.
A tipping point to maintain fishing stocks and one threatening the survival of the species are two different things. In the case of cod the breeding size older fish often called whale cod often live around old wrecks and other rough bottom that fouls drag nets. Some of these will undoubtedly survive no matter how intense fishing pressure gets before the humans give it up. But it will take decades (The whales have still not recovered to seventeenth century population levels.) So it will be long after you and I are gone before the fishing for cod off Cape Cod is good again. Perhaps fifty years after the end of WW3?
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 04 Oct 2018, 09:24:28

Looks like they are now launching the first gyre cleanup tool.

https://gcaptain.com/after-successful-t ... age-patch/
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 04 Oct 2018, 11:29:29

Speaking from a purely anecdotal viewpoint, Monday night I had some mighty fine cod fish in my fish&chips at the "Legal Seafoods" restaurant at the Braintree Mall outside of Boston. It was prepared with a spicy batter that contained a lot of Telecherry Black Pepper.

Completely delicious, I ate all five pieces, all of the delicious onion rings, and the slaw, but could not finish the chips. I also had a cup of really good Lobster Bisque as an appetizer, into which they added some major chunks of lobster claw meat.

This was following weeks of salmon and swordfish and fried scallops and clams on Nantucket. I'm on short rations until my next scheduled blood draw in a couple of weeks, but my A1C test is gonna disclose my sins.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 04 Oct 2018, 11:37:30

While Newfoundland cod stocks are still deeply depleted, 13% of historic, there is a limited “food fishery” and we caught our share. Also we took a couple of relatives out who caught fish and then gave us most of their catch.

Therefore we are all coded out! Our last 7 meals at the cabin were cod. We had baked, fried and curried cod not to mention cod stew and cod head stew.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby GHung » Fri 05 Oct 2018, 08:04:29

Red tide spreads to Florida's east coast, shuttering some Miami-Dade beaches

The red tide bloom that's been in the waters off Florida's Gulf coast for months is now choking the Atlantic Ocean waters from Miami Beach to Palm Beach, Florida.
Three generations of the Claus family have been fishing the Atlantic waters in southeastern Florida. Trey Claus, 30, has never seen anything like this; he said neither has anyone else he knows.
"This might put a halt to our season, which is not a good thing," he said.
Should the red tide bloom settle in, mass fish kills will happen. It will kill the Claus family's charter reservations, and the game fish they're after. ...........

.......The upcoming fishing and shellfish seasons would shut down: including stone crab, ballyhoo, sailfish, to name a few.
But most people don't just come to Florida for the fishing — it's the pristine, white sand beaches. And red tide has already shuttered some.
New beach closures in Miami-Dade County
"I'm not sure if we've ever had red tide in Miami before," said Larry Brand, University of Miami professor of marine biology and ecology.
The worst water samples taken in Miami-Dade County, off Haulover Inlet, had medium levels of red tide. Those levels pushed Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Gimenez to close several beaches "in an abundance of caution."
Miami Beach and Crandon Park samples also had red tide algae, but in the "very low to low range."
Earlier in the week, red tide shut down a number of beaches in Palm Beach County. Some remain closed; video posted to social media showed some of the red tide fish kill washing up on the beaches......
More: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/04/us/red-t ... index.html


My sister owns a rental on the southwest Florida coast; just finished renovating last Spring and have had cancellations. No new rentals due to the red tide around Sarasota and Fort Meyers. Those tourists can go other places,,, for now.
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 05 Oct 2018, 09:59:52

Fish dwindle in the traditionally rich waters of Tanzania – in pictures

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... n-pictures

(Thanks to vox at asif for this)
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Re: THE Oceans & Seas Thread pt 3

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 06 Oct 2018, 19:25:13

Florida confirms toxic red tide spreading along Atlantic coast

A red tide is destroying wildlife across Florida’s southwest coast


An ongoing red tide is killing wildlife throughout Florida’s southwest coast and has left beaches littered with dead fish, sea turtles, manatees and a whale shark. Additional footage courtesy of Southwest Florida TV via Facebook.

Dozens of dead fish littered a Palm Beach County beach Wednesday as a toxic red tide appeared to spread along Florida’s Atlantic coast.

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officials confirmed Wednesday that low to moderate amounts of the algae that cause red tide have now turned up off three counties along the state’s more densely populated east coast. Blooms were confirmed in Palm Beach, Martin and St. Lucie counties, marking the first appearance of red tide along Atlantic shores in more than a decade...


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 19020.html
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