Peak Oil News and Message Boards

China's well prepared response to the outcry over CINOOC's bid for Unocal pointed to the "unfair" 25% consumption to 6% population ratio currently enjoyed by the Unted States.

Hugo Chavez has also repeatedly pointed to the out-of-balance consumption in the US as "unfair" and "excessive".

I believe this will be a growing cry worldwide as depletion takes hold, eventually leading to embargos against the United States by various producers and cartels, both existing and newly formed.

I doubt China will support embargos, at least not yet. They will likely continue to try and win the "new great game" by slowly gathering resources and manufacturing power. If the world economy tips into severe recession though, all bets are off.

I find it interesting that people alternately look at things in terms of per capita or as a percent GDP, as it best suits them. Either way, it is always done to portray the US in the worst possible way.

"The US uses the most oil per capita."
"The US gave the least money per GDP to tsunami victims."
"The US pollutes the most per capita."

It's easy to think of the US in the worst possible ways--because they ARE the worst of the worst when it comes to consumption, ecocide, imperial ambitions and wars--you name it!

Reap what you sow, you know. . . .

savethehumans wrote:It's easy to think of the US in the worst possible ways--because they ARE the worst of the worst when it comes to consumption, ecocide, imperial ambitions and wars--you name it!

Reap what you sow, you know. . . .

Ecocide? WTF is that?

-A

agni wrote:

savethehumans wrote:It's easy to think of the US in the worst possible ways--because they ARE the worst of the worst when it comes to consumption, ecocide, imperial ambitions and wars--you name it!

Reap what you sow, you know. . . .

Ecocide? WTF is that?

-A

homocide, but on the ecosystem

0mar wrote:homocide

Homocide?

Are we killing gay ecologists now?

Or is this a play on the "Nuke the gay whales" bumper sticker?

No, ecocide is a real word, and ultimately it's worse than raping babies.

Thank you, Omar and I Like Plants! Little tongue-in-cheek there, erl. Glad someone can make wisecracks about the fact that the human race has murdered the planet it lives on--I just don't have enough gumption for that, I guess.

The squeeze is in progress. Having fun yet, America?

gt1370a wrote:I find it interesting that people alternately look at things in terms of per capita or as a percent GDP, as it best suits them. Either way, it is always done to portray the US in the worst possible way.

"The US uses the most oil per capita."
"The US gave the least money per GDP to tsunami victims."
"The US pollutes the most per capita."

Given that each of those examples is perfectly appropriate to the issue being mentioned, the interesting issue is why the USA tops the lists.

The individual person's level of consumption of resources and spewing of wastes accurate reflects their values, or lack thereof.

The level of giving that could cost the low GDP Bangladeshi his life is a level of giving that keeps the high GDP US Citizen from driving his Hummer 10 feet.

Another for instance, it does show the moral values of the wealthiest country on earth for the President to offer less money for relief from the worst disaster of a century (the tsunami) than is being concurrently spent on his inauguration party food and drink.

Perhaps you'd care to offer reasons why your suggestion more accurately reflect the issues being discussed, such as the USA's "generosity"?

I like the title of the thread...that seems to have good potential of a domestic campaign to wean the USA of imported oil from unstable parts of the world. Anyway I find it a catchy sort of phrase. Good luck with trying to make it work.

Actually, I believe the US uses 25% of the global production of oil while having only 5% of the population.

But, there are some Americans, a small percentage but many, who understand and loathe what is happening.

The US has become the power base for the Plutocracy. We are the army of the powers that be.

Imagine Nazi Germany between 1933-1938.

Don't expect (most of) the people in the US to comprehend or be able (or willing) to take any action.

Most of them are the enemy of the rest of the world. They have been denied the ability to critically think, and they have been indoctrinated to follow the directions of TPTB.

MD wrote:China's well prepared response to the outcry over CINOOC's bid for Unocal pointed to the "unfair" 25% consumption to 6% population ratio currently enjoyed by the Unted States.

Hugo Chavez has also repeatedly pointed to the out-of-balance consumption in the US as "unfair" and "excessive".

I believe this will be a growing cry worldwide as depletion takes hold, eventually leading to embargos against the United States by various producers and cartels, both existing and newly formed.

I doubt China will support embargos, at least not yet. They will likely continue to try and win the "new great game" by slowly gathering resources and manufacturing power. If the world economy tips into severe recession though, all bets are off.

This assumes that the United States government would be completely unable to block some or all of these actions by dividing the opposition among themselves or just buying off some of the potential embargoers. The United States may soon stop being a "hyper-power" (if we ever were) but that does not mean that we will be unable to punish our "enemies" or reward our "friends."

<i>but that does not mean that we will be unable to punish our "enemies"</i>

See what I mean?

I am trying to give voice to realism. See it as a sign of whatever you want, I call it living with the fact that we are all homo sapiens and if it were the Chinese or the French or Botswanians using a disproportionate amount of resources than they would be doing the same thing.

I do get tired of the America bashing, as if any other group of homo sapiens would do any different if the situations were reversed.

We all love the Dutch for their enlightened attitudes, how quickly we forget how hard they tried to hold onto Indonesia

The French, they're good guys right? They oppose American hegemony. How soon we forget Algeria and Vietnam.

Do I really need to catalog all of the tribal ways homosapiens treat and mistreat one another for political and economic advantage?

Yes Americans are human beings and we do not live up to our best ideals.

Yes we use more than "our fair share" of resources just like any one else would given the chance because

[align=center]NEWS FLASH [/align]

they are human beings too.

As human beings we tend to look at those who want to take away our ice cream as enemies, even if we have more than our fair share of ice cream.

And some people have more than their fair share of self-righteousness and I would love to take it away from them.

look we live in a real world and the op dealt with how america might be blockaded in the future by a coalition of the disenfranchised. I think that would be hard to do because Americans... like every other tribe on the stupid planet... resist when they are opposed. I think America would be able to effectively resist those it perceives as "enemies."

America is losing access to imports a little bit at a time, mostly through economic distress and falling dollar.

There may never be any explicitly expressed embargoes against America. Nevertheless, I stand by my OP of nearly three years ago: America will lose access to its lion's share of oil that has been enjoyed for the last fifty years or so.

Kiss your energy slaves goodbye!

wisconsin_cur wrote:I am trying to give voice to realism. See it as a sign of whatever you want, I call it living with the fact that we are all homo sapiens and if it were the Chinese or the French or Botswanians using a disproportionate amount of resources than they would be doing the same thing.

I do get tired of the America bashing, as if any other group of homo sapiens would do any different if the situations were reversed.

We all love the Dutch for their enlightened attitudes, how quickly we forget how hard they tried to hold onto Indonesia

The French, they're good guys right? They oppose American hegemony. How soon we forget Algeria and Vietnam.

Do I really need to catalog all of the tribal ways homosapiens treat and mistreat one another for political and economic advantage?

Yes Americans are human beings and we do not live up to our best ideals.

Yes we use more than "our fair share" of resources just like any one else would given the chance because

[align=center]NEWS FLASH [/align]

they are human beings too.

As human beings we tend to look at those who want to take away our ice cream as enemies, even if we have more than our fair share of ice cream.

And some people have more than their fair share of self-righteousness and I would love to take it away from them.

look we live in a real world and the op dealt with how america might be blockaded in the future by a coalition of the disenfranchised. I think that would be hard to do because Americans... like every other tribe on the stupid planet... resist when they are opposed. I think America would be able to effectively resist those it perceives as "enemies."

Gol DANG it Cur! How dare you insert historical perspective and sociological reallity into a thread bashin America for the bazillionth time! Don't you ever get tired of the facts? They are so dang inconvenient!

MD wrote:America is losing access to imports a little bit at a time, mostly through economic distress and falling dollar.

There may never be any explicitly expressed embargoes against America. Nevertheless, I stand by my OP of nearly three years ago: America will lose access to its lion's share of oil that has been enjoyed for the last fifty years or so.

Kiss your energy slaves goodbye!

Perhaps I misread, I can see a world where we get less because we have less to exchange. However, as the breadbasket of the world in a world where most nations are food importers we still have a few carrots (pardon the pun) to dangle before others as well as sticks.

I am as doom and gloom as the next guy about the rapidly approaching evaporation of "free" energy but I see it as a function of geology, domestic revolutionary movements (in producing countries), and economics.

I do not see how a coalition of nation states organizing a boycott could be brought to fruition. I think we will see a further balkanization of the world and not a new age of global alliances.

Don't you ever get tired of the facts? They are so dang inconvenient!

Thank you. The facts can be very tiring. They are very disheartening. It hurts to have exceptionalism ripped from the psyche and to be left holding your children while facing a very uncertain future.

But then I think,

This is what humans have been doing ever since there was such a thing and feeling ever since the 2.5 pounds of gray matter we carry on top of our necks has been capable of an existential crisis.

So I am connected with all humanity (and with all living things really) even in moments of despair or desperation. Somehow that helps. I think it also helps breed compassion which is encouraging.

Thank you for the affirmation.

MD wrote:The squeeze is in progress. Having fun yet, America?

I agree we should severely cut back on fossil fuel use in America . In fact only use self produced fossil fuel energy for industry and agriculture . Switch to much more sustainable fuels for transport like ethanol . In fact if we converted most of the food crops into ethanol we could still feed ourselves and get in MD's 6 % range.

Stop shipping dirty coal over seas too and contributing to the problem. Of course 6 weeks +/- a few after we convert almost totally to ethanol MD can make another post called 12 % for 12 % 6 months later +/- a few he can make an even better post like 25 % for 25 %. Of course his neighbors could always baste him and then chow down. Which would end his posting career . Yet then the from all the people not getting food or coal from the united states would be comedy gold. To bad it will only be one time 6 week mini series