[careinke]

Most on this board have at least heard of the Great Reset, which will be formally unveiled at the World Economic Forum in Davos Jan 25-29, 2021.

As an Agorist, I find the Great Reset mostly repugnant and a surefire way to destroy the ecosystem. All to increase the wealth/power of the rich.

Apparently quite a few other Agorists agree and have organized a counter action called the Greater Reset.

Our World. Our Way.
The Greater Reset Activation: January 25th – 29th, 2021
The Greater Reset is the world’s collective response to the World Economic Forum’s Initiative: The Great Reset.

We offer an alternative to the WEF’s top-down, centralized, authoritarian vision. Our desire is to help all people find community and liberty by providing practical steps and knowledge for co-creating a world that respects individual liberty, bodily autonomy, and choice.

We invite you to join us for 5 days of discussion about the diverse opportunities available for those who seek to live in harmony with humanity and the planet, while respecting our innate freedom.

In case you don't know, the primary tenant for agorists is non-coercion, the globalist Great Reset is based on LOTS of coercion.

The Greater Reset is aligning their speakers with the topic days set by the WEF. The Greater Reset will be live streaming in the evenings so they will not conflict with the WEF Forums.

Topics include:
1/25 Counter-Economics, Freed Markets, Gift Economy, Barter Networks, Cryptocurrency, Entrepreneurship.

1/26 Health & Decentralized Healthcare, Homeschooling, Unschooling

1/27 Permaculture, Decentralized Environmentalism, Stewardship of the Earth

1/28 The Liberating Power of Technology, Blockchain, Encryption, Decentralized Internet

1/29 Community Building, Intentional Communities, Freedom Cells, Alternative Forms of Organizing (Holocracy, Sociocracy)

The presentations will also be recorded and available for viewing later.

Here is a link to their site. You will find a video at the top of the page, with a pretty good intro. The page also shows the speakers and qualifications.
https://thegreaterreset.org/

Yes Agorists have their share of people outside the norm, but they are for the most part non violent.

My hope is this thread will turn into a productive discussion of the Great Reset that is already being implemented, pros, cons, and alternatives.

[Ibon]

I understand the intent of this counter Greater Reset movement along with the core beliefs of the agorist movement. Not only do I understand it but also embrace many of the core principals. As it applies to society at large however it has no chance of succeeding IMHO. It has every chance though of succeeding when you apply this down at a local level. On the macro globalist level you are fighting against the tide of humanity that prefers top down control of government. Emerging generations want government collectivist management of society on a suite of issues. You wont be able to turn that around. Another problem is that the Greater Reset movement on a macro level will also be corrupted by the anarchist extremes of libertarianism from which it shouldn't be confused.

Society is frankly just too unhinged to ever embrace the self reliance part of the agorist movement.

In my opinion allow the juggernaut of humanity to be lead which is what they want. Accept the corruption that is inevitable. Move within the cracks that still exist. There is more freedom moving within the cracks of a society towing the line and obeying authority. Again, the vast majority of human are too unhinged to responsibly follow such a self reliant path of the Greater Reset which will therefore become undermined.

Chameleon strategy moving within the cracks.

The flaw in this moving within the cracks is that surveillance by government and control is tightening the cracks. They were still wide open during the decades between 1970 - 2000 which was a great time to be in it but not of it so to speak. Today the cracks are narrower but still there.

This really has a lot to do with human ecological overshoot. Authoritarian management of society is inevitable through the bottle neck.

The best you can do is move in the cracks at the local level.

Sorry to be pessimistic. Sometimes being realistic sounds pessimistic which I am inherently not. I see great potential for personal freedom still within the paradigm of increased authoritarianism................... moving in the narrowing cracks chameleon like.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I understand the intent of this counter Greater Reset movement along with the core beliefs of the agorist movement. Not only do I understand it but also embrace many of the core principals. As it applies to society at large however it has no chance of succeeding IMHO. It has every chance though of succeeding when you apply this down at a local level. On the macro globalist level you are fighting against the tide of humanity that prefers top down control of government. Emerging generations want government collectivist management of society on a suite of issues. You wont be able to turn that around. ...

Society is frankly just too unhinged to ever embrace the self reliance part of the agorist movement.

Agreed. At the local level the agorist movement sounds fantastic and can be applied in ways that make sense with local resources, climate, housing, population, etc.

At the national level you have the military, leaders like Trump as well as good ones, and on and on getting in the way, plus so many policies that really need to have minimum standards at a national level, like food and drug safety, pollution control, and on and on. At a local level, those standards can always be exceeded by the agorists if they can get enough people to join them.

(Blue font mine, for emphasis).

[Newfie]

Carinke,

I support your movement. However I feel Ibon has the more pragmatic approach. Perhaps practice your agorist approach, keeping it alive, waiting foe the day humanity may come seeking advice.

Ibon,
I recall a true story about some guy in Canadian PNW, east side of the ranges, early 20th century. He showed up, minded his own business, stayed away from people, never shared his name or past. Folks got all wound up about him, talked Mounties into deputizing a possee, they surrounded his house. Some local guy was with him, that guy ended the day dead along with one or two of the possee. He took for the mountains and was almost across when they shot him. Never knew his name, he never did anything wrong except to protect his house. The tribe can not abide an outsider.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I recall a true story about some guy in Canadian PNW, east side of the ranges, early 20th century. He showed up, minded his own business, stayed away from people, never shared his name or past. Folks got all wound up about him, talked Mounties into deputizing a possee, they surrounded his house. Some local guy was with him, that guy ended the day dead along with one or two of the possee. He took for the mountains and was almost across when they shot him. Never knew his name, he never did anything wrong except to protect his house. The tribe can not abide an outsider.

If true, that sounds mighty stupid on the mounties; part.

Anyone ever hear of checking property records? If he's not the owner, talk to the owner, and find out who signed the rental agreement.

Anyone ever hear of making a phone call or writing a letter, if they're concerned about his identity?

Anyone ever hear of a summons by a court or the sheriff's office if they needed some sort of formal query legally answered?

AFTER he refuses to cooperate with authorities as a pattern, THEN perhaps some sort of force might be necessary, but to start out like that is just government run amok, IMO.

Reminds me of the time 4 sheriffs deputies show up outside my door with no warning, BIG guys wearing hoodies, carrying big pistols in holsters, no badges I could see, pounding on my door and NOT identifying themselves. (They might have initially, but I couldn't hear that, with me multiple rooms away then).

I didn't let them in, and if they'd forced their way in without identifying themselves, there would have been an exchange of gunfire, considering the neighborhood. And yes, I would have likely died, but there is a line to be drawn re the castle doctrine.

I got my gun and quietly called the cops, in a defensive sheltered position ready to fire if pounding turned into successful door breaking. Finally, maybe 3 to 5 minutes later I heard one of them yelling "Sheriff's Deputies". Then I went to the door, and demanded to see badges through the peephole. At that point, satisfied, I hid my gun, and then opened the door.

They had the wrong apartment. They apparently can't read 64 vs 65, which I had to point out to them. Seriously. Just then the cops show up, and aren't happy, with guns drawn. When I explained I'd called them and what happened, they yelled at the deputies, not me.

The incompetence throughout much of the system just seems to get worse and worse, which is ironic, given the power of technology, if used intelligently.

[Newfie]

Canadian PNW, east side of the ranges, early 20th century.

They were all traveling on snowshoes.

[dissident]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/0 ... oke-purge/

Brave new world of woke.

[Pops]

Thanks for the video.

I think it's kind of funny, maybe even a little sad, that these folks preaching individualism want society to change en mass—so we can all be individualists.
LOL

I say that as someone who gets told I'm in left libertarian territory on every political quiz I take. Honestly, does anyone think if government and property just went Poof! that all of a sudden life would be grand? A week after a mob of a few thousand was told they could and should impose their will on the rest of us by a wannabe despotic billionaire?

Unfortunately that is the way of "individualism" everyone wants the government out of their business, and BTW, society should conform to their standards.

The central conceit is that the "law of the jungle" would somehow not apply or at least not to these folks. Civil rights or "bodily autonomy" to use the jargon are nonexistent in "free markets" like say, Somalia. There is a reason that the first thing every society does on inception is to impose order, coercion, one way or another. Kind of hard to get any "voluntary exchange" done with a rifle in one hand and pistol in the other— or a stick and a stone as the case may be.

But Ibon does make the case for the actual individualist. Plenty of people who live "alternate lifestyles" and aren't dealers, gun runners or whatever thing it is that these free-marketers want to do but feel they are prevented from doing. As much as I rant about the decline of institutions and evils of individualism, I draw a distinction between the culture of individualism: fashion, acquisition, consumerism, etc and the actual individualist who indulges in none of that.

In real life I am somewhat independent. I've been outside the stream for a long while. I've been a self-employed creative the last 25 years and points before. No permanent address for a more than a couple years. No debt for a long time, no credit whatsoever for a dozen years. Equifax doesn't know me. No, literally. They return nothing for me. Makes it hard to deal with the gov sometimes because they use Equifax et al to identify us in places.

Think on it, It boils down to what you want, if you don't like banks, don't use them: don't like corporate commodity farms, don't go to the supermarket; don't like popular music, make yer own. Self-reliance is hard and has big downsides including the aforementioned low acquisition rate (LOL) but you can at least avoid having a boss to answer to.

[Newfie]

You can find any flavor of nut case you want on the web.

When I walk around and talk to folks I find a lot of boring normal.

[careinke]

Thanks for the video.

I think it's kind of funny, maybe even a little sad, that these folks preaching individualism want society to change en mass—so we can all be individualists.
LOL
It does sound a little funny doesn't it? LOL The difference is Agorist do not want to force the change in society. Unlike the globalist, top down control, use of coercion to force a change on everyone whether they want to or not. In short, serfdom. Rather, we prefer to provide knowledge and examples on how to side step the current toxic political environment through various means.

I say that as someone who gets told I'm in left libertarian territory on every political quiz I take. Honestly, does anyone think if government and property just went Poof! that all of a sudden life would be grand? Not me, I think it will take several generations. A week after a mob of a few thousand was told they could and should impose their will on the rest of us by a wannabe despotic billionaire?I find it rather Karmic, that those who damaged federal property will be charged with a crime Trump put into effect. Hopefully it will apply to ALL people who comitted attacks against Federal property last year.

Unfortunately that is the way of "individualism" everyone wants the government out of their business, and BTW, society should conform to their standards. Why do you think government SHOULD be in our business? There are a LOT of ways government could raise funds without getting into an individual's business. Human life should be sovereign.

The central conceit is that the "law of the jungle" would somehow not apply or at least not to these folks. No, most are well armed. Civil rights or "bodily autonomy" to use the jargon are nonexistent in "free markets" like say, Somalia. Have you been to Somalia? Just another Third World Country. Heck there is even permaculture in Somalia! https://cdn.permaculturenews.org/files/ipc10/ANTS-Somalia.pdf There is a reason that the first thing every society does on inception is to impose order, coercion, one way or another. Kind of hard to get any "voluntary exchange" done with a rifle in one hand and pistol in the other— or a stick and a stone as the case may be.Prior to agriculture, lots of people lived this way. With our knowledge and tech, it should be a piece of cake.

But Ibon does make the case for the actual individualist. Plenty of people who live "alternate lifestyles" and aren't dealers, gun runners or whatever thing it is that these free-marketers want to do but feel they are prevented from doing. As much as I rant about the decline of institutions and evils of individualism, I draw a distinction between the culture of individualism: fashion, acquisition, consumerism, etc and the actual individualist who indulges in none of that.

In real life I am somewhat independent. I've been outside the stream for a long while. I've been a self-employed creative the last 25 years and points before. No permanent address for a more than a couple years. No debt for a long time, no credit whatsoever for a dozen years. Equifax doesn't know me. No, literally. They return nothing for me. Makes it hard to deal with the gov sometimes because they use Equifax et al to identify us in places.

Think on it, It boils down to what you want, if you don't like banks, don't use them: don't like corporate commodity farms, don't go to the supermarket; don't like popular music, make yer own. Self-reliance is hard and has big downsides including the aforementioned low acquisition rate (LOL) but you can at least avoid having a boss to answer to.

You sound like a potential Agorist

Peace

[Pops]

You sound like a potential Agorist

I'm not really a joiner.




.

[Subjectivist]

Now that the D's are back in charge the midwest goes back to being flyover country where none of our concerns matter to D.C.

The Great Reset is just one more way of giving us the business without any joy.

[aadbrd]

careinke, how have you, to date, put your agorist ideas into practice? It seems when it comes to unrealistic -isms that they are almost always nothing beyond thought experiments along the lines of "if we all did X then it would be happily ever after". And of course, the rubber never meets the road, because that takes work and more than likely will expose the sad fact that utopias can never be achieved.

[JuanP]

It all sounds very nice, but the overpopulation problem is not on the schedule, so I'll pass. I won't join any movements that don't address the overpopulation problem. Also, where human breeding is concerned, I believe it is time for coercion and mandatory limits, too. All these agorist ideas would have been wonderful if universally applied at least 200 years ago, but it's too late now.

At this point in time, I'd prefer legal assisted euthanasia, assisted suicide, mandatory breeding limits, and mandatory sterilizations for everyone that already has produced one biological offspring. The time for voluntary measures, providing free and easily available contraception, and educating and empowering women as the only solutions passed decades ago, IMO.

[Ibon]

the rubber never meets the road, because that takes work and more than likely will expose the sad fact that utopias can never be achieved.

Utopias were invented to wank about them.

[Newfie]

It all sounds very nice, but the overpopulation problem is not on the schedule, so I'll pass. I won't join any movements that don't address the overpopulation problem. Also, where human breeding is concerned, I believe it is time for coercion and mandatory limits, too. All these agorist ideas would have been wonderful if universally applied at least 200 years ago, but it's too late now.

At this point in time, I'd prefer legal assisted euthanasia, assisted suicide, mandatory breeding limits, and mandatory sterilizations for everyone that already has produced one biological offspring. The time for voluntary measures, providing free and easily available contraception, and educating and empowering women as the only solutions passed decades ago, IMO.

Juan,

I share your concern with over population, it t is clearly the underlying problem. But it also is a symptom of a deeper problem.

Humanity has for the vast majority of its existence been a marginal critter, barely hanging onto existence. We needed to breed heavily to make up for the child birth losses. We have no breeding season because we have nothing BUT breeding season.

And there in lies a bug problem for humanity, we have been genetically programmed to grow. To grow the tribe, the herd, to maintain a sustainable breeding population. A couple of million years of selective breeding to make us uber breeders.

But more than that we have evolved to be rapacious omnivores, capable of eating almost anything from rotten seal guts to grubs. We needed to take every opportunity to grow our populations, to grow our bodies. And that attitude permeates our souls, it is who we are.

Then all of a sudden we become super successful and are over populating. How do we now reverse that million plus years of selective breeding? How do we stop what we have been programmed to do?

This is a very serious question for it puts us at conflict with ourselves. The very things that eventually made us successful are now destroying us. And yet, we may need those same survival skills in the future.

This is a very tricky dilemma.

[Ibon]

I share your concern with over population, that eventually made us successful are now destroying us. And yet, we may need those same survival skills in the future.

This is a very tricky dilemma.

Having been contemplating this dilemma for my entire adult life and now nearing the last chapters thereof, my conclusion is to accept the inherent futility of this dilemma which really is unresolvable before the consequences fuck us over.

[Newfie]

Ibon,

I fear you are correct.

We, don't have the answers.

But sometimes the first thing to do is to ask the right question.

And we, some of us here, may be on the right track there.

[JuanP]

Absolutely! All we can do is watch and weep.

[Pops]

How about doing the things that can reverse population growth?
Educate women,
give women equal rights
provide universal free contraception,
stop financial rewards for having kids.

Or weep while voting for the opponents of the above.

https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/ho ... ion-growth