[shakespear1]

I followed a link given on PO to read about the all powerfull Al Quaida and then ran into this story that really is worth reading and thinking about.

It is easy to pull peoples chain!!!

Enjoy

Who saved Birhan Woldu's life?

Live Aid apparently saved the Ethiopian famine’s poster child in 1985, and 20 years later the UK media claims it ‘found’ her looking beautiful. Nice story - shame about the facts.
by Jennie Bristow

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CAC4D.htm

[Magus]

Remember when the United States aided Ethiopia in an illegal and destructive invasion of Somalia this last winter, supposedly as part of the ever expanding "War on Terror?"

The Islamic Courts Union was in the process of reuniting the country, and was much more promising than the puppet government that the west installed ever will be. Pirates were being hunted down. Schools were being opened. The rule of law was being restablished.

The puppet government proved to be the patheticly weak husk that it is when the ICU overran most of its territories late last year. Many clans were switching sides from the Baidoa based government to the ICU.

By December, the only area it could really claim to be in any control of at all was the city of Baidoa itself, and people were fleeing in droves. The ICU was on the verge of success in this INTERNAL conflict. But then, disaster struck...in the form of the United States and its malevolent ally, christian Ethiopia.

At the time, I predicted, quite rightly, that only further chaos would ensue, worse than our infamous "Black Hawk Down" disaster. Lo and behold:

Worst fighting in Mogadishu for 15 years

MOGADISHU (AFP) - Rebels shot down an Ethiopian helicopter gunship over Mogadishu on Friday as the worst fighting in the Somali capital for more than 15 years left dozens of civilians dead.

Clashes between insurgent fighters and joint Ethiopian and Somali government forces erupted across the city before the Mi-24 gunship was hit by a missile and came down on waste land in Mogadishu airport, killing both Ethiopian crew members.

Somalia in Chaos

Just as the US-Ethiopian war against Somalia began in December, John Githong'o from his Oxford redoubt "prayed that the gates of hell have not been opened in the region as a result of this intervention."

Three months later, John's fears of a nightmare scenario still cannot be ruled out, as evidenced by the revolting desecration on Mogadishu's streets of dead Somali and Ethiopian soldiers' bodies, followed by the downing of the plane supporting the African Union peace-keepers. Not many African countries will want to send troops for the AU mission.

Things are going to get worse in Somalia because the transitional government has shown itself completely incapable of taking the steps urgently needed to avert disaster.

The western interlopers are trying to install a regime friendly to their corrupt desires. They will not succeed. The insurgency will destroy them, just as it is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan, and everwhere else they have tried to subvert. And as the gates of hell open over Somalia, they will soon open over the United States itself, over the whole world.

This is the price of folly.

[lateralus]

The only way to stop the gates of hell from opening in Somalia/ Ethiopia is to start carpet bombing the entire area now...with chickens...those starving little bastards will be so busy chasing and cooking that we can send in the A-Team to weld the gates of hell shut.




*Editors note: No chickens were actually harmed during the writing of this post*

[128shot]

Progress? about the only progress the ICU accomplished was stability. the ICU's rise reminded me a bit of the aftermath of Chairman Mao. Doesn't matter how many people are beaten, doesn't matter how many people are tortured, nor does it matter how many people are enslaved socially/politically to a blind ideology. What matters is "peace" and "stability"


ICU beat people for watching the world cup. While its better than civil war or the ethopians ethnic cleansing them, I wouldn't say that its a giant step forward as is perpetuated.

[Jack]

The Gates of Hell?

Hmm. For the locals, it will probably be unpleasant. It may spawn a few terrorists. Other than that, mere status quo ante.

If side A wins...OK. If side B wins...OK. If side Q wins after a decade of bloodshed, then that's OK too. For you see, the effect on my and my interests is negligible.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls. They'll just ask for a donation.

[gg3]

The whole region is suffering from population overshoot of the resource base.

I'll second the proposal to carpet-bomb 'em with chickens, with the amendment that the chickens be laced with long-lasting contraceptives.

--

As for the Islamic Courts Union, see also the latest on Global Guerrillas; John Robb has an article discussing the replacements for the state in collapsed state scenarios. A roving court function is one of them.

And as for beating people for watching the World Cup, that's beneath contempt. If those ICU types are so intent on getting back to the stone age, they should be locked up in a zoo and given some clubs.

[pea-jay]

Most of Africa has skirted with one-way trips back to the stone age due to their collective overshoot. Our (the western world, plus the new player on the block-China) crappy geographical nation state building, malovent financial and political involvement combined with the partial introduction of modern technology such as weapons and medicine without the proper socio-economic and educational framework have doomed most states to failure. Then when overshoot rears its ugly head in the form of famine we provide a lifeline so that most of the population winds up living to breed the continent further into overshoot.

[lateralus]

The whole region is suffering from population overshoot of the resource base.

I'll second the proposal to carpet-bomb 'em with chickens, with the amendment that the chickens be laced with long-lasting contraceptives.

Sounds like a plan.

If they insist on breeding like rabbits and then begging for rice, might I suggest only dropping chickens that have the bird flu as well. There are far too many homo stupidicus roaming the earth as it is.

[Madpaddy]

I fear the chicken bombing idea will only lead to even more olympic standard long distance runners emerging from that region of the world.

No, I don't see the problem with dropping good old fashioned HE or some of those banned phosphorus bombs lying around in ordnance stores all over the world.

[seldom_seen]

At the time, I predicted, quite rightly, that only further chaos would ensue, worse than our infamous "Black Hawk Down" disaster. Lo and behold

Wow, look everyone we've got Nostradamus right here on peakoil.com.
He predicted further chaos in Somalia. Who could have imagined?

[Madpaddy]

LOL seldom_seen,

Furthermore,

I predict that there will be a car bombing somewhere in Iraq in the next 48 hours.

[Magus]

I disagree with many of you on several points.

Progress? about the only progress the ICU accomplished was stability. the ICU's rise reminded me a bit of the aftermath of Chairman Mao. Doesn't matter how many people are beaten, doesn't matter how many people are tortured, nor does it matter how many people are enslaved socially/politically to a blind ideology. What matters is "peace" and "stability"


ICU beat people for watching the world cup. While its better than civil war or the ethopians ethnic cleansing them, I wouldn't say that its a giant step forward as is perpetuated.

Not a great step forward? Hmm...LET ME SEE.....

On the one hand, we have Sharia law and stability...

On the other hand, MASS EXTERMINATION and GENOCIDE.

Gee, I wonder which one the Somalis would prefer?

The Islamic Courts' original mission was to bring social justice and combat iniquity. However, after capturing Mogadishu, its mission transformed into imposing Sharia law all over Somalia and changing the constitution.

In the year 2000, the courts formed a union of Islamic courts, partly to consolidate resources and power and partly to aid in handing down decisions across, rather than within, clan lines. [6]

In an interview featured in the BBC Online Somali section in June 2006, Sheik Sharif Shaykh Ahmed said "the union of Islamic courts was established to ensure that Somali people suffering for 15 years would gain peace and full justice and freedom from the anarchic rule of warlords who refuted their people to no direction." After capturing Mogadishu, the Islamic Courts had enacted a series of decrees and laws that had temporarily brought hope for Somali expatriates, local minorities and women.

On October 5, 2006 the Islamic Courts had declared the formation of the supreme Islamic Sharia court of Banadir province. The announcement ceremony was attended by all Islamic officials; both consultative and executive councils, intellectuals and civil society members and took place in the former Somalian presidential palace in central Mogadishu. That announcement from the central Islamic Court was destined to end all tribal Islamic Courts in the capital. [16]

On November 17, 2006, the ICU had banned the use, sale and transportation of khat altogether and the Islamic Court of Kismayo banned the sale of cigarettes. This was a controversial move as it was the main source of income for many war widows and orphans and a huge import-export business.

I think that personally I would take the inabilty to use khat over being fucked over by the west and dying. But don't take my word for it. Ask the Somalis. They're currently engaged in the process of killing their oppressors as we speak.

The Gates of Hell?

Hmm. For the locals, it will probably be unpleasant. It may spawn a few terrorists. Other than that, mere status quo ante.

If side A wins...OK. If side B wins...OK. If side Q wins after a decade of bloodshed, then that's OK too. For you see, the effect on my and my interests is negligible.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls. They'll just ask for a donation.

Jack, I already knew that you wouldn't care about the locals, but obviously the United States does. Why else would they send in special forces to help the Ethipions bring the ICU down, even after their first attempt to do so through the warlords failed.

(NOTE: Ironically, these American CIA operatives and special forces were supporting some of the same warlords who killed OUR OWN SOLDIERS in the Black Hawk Down incident, which just goes to prove that they really have no loyalty to our people whatsoever.)

And as for beating people for watching the World Cup, that's beneath contempt. If those ICU types are so intent on getting back to the stone age, they should be locked up in a zoo and given some clubs.

I think that, if you cared to actually research the matter a little, you would find that the ICU were far more humane than the current ursurpers. Hell, the ICU was getting the fucking country running again! For the first time in years, it was actually safe to walk the streets of Mogadishu and not worry about being robbed or even killed! Can you say the say the same now?

Sounds like a plan.

If they insist on breeding like rabbits and then begging for rice, might I suggest only dropping chickens that have the bird flu as well. There are far too many homo stupidicus roaming the earth as it is.

I fear the chicken bombing idea will only lead to even more olympic standard long distance runners emerging from that region of the world.

No, I don't see the problem with dropping good old fashioned HE or some of those banned phosphorus bombs lying around in ordnance stores all over the world.

Sorry guys, but this topic is about the nation of Somalia, and how the ICU almost brought order but was stopped by the United States (lets face it, that's who did the deed).

If you wish to write about your strong desires for the mass, complete extermination of the human race, please confine it to another topic.

Wow, look everyone we've got Nostradamus right here on peakoil.com.
He predicted further chaos in Somalia. Who could have imagined?

LOL seldom_seen,

Furthermore,

I predict that there will be a car bombing somewhere in Iraq in the next 48 hours.

Wow.

I also added some considerable analysis of the situation, done after some thorough research, and finally succeeded in contributing something worthy of discussion to this website, unlike your incredibly inane posts.

Guess what, I just had another prediction: I'll being adding you to my ignore list within the next 15 seconds.

Damn, maybe I AM "Nostradamus."

[lateralus]

You have to be seriously shitting me Magnus. The Islamic Courts would of been the saving grace of Somalia?

Tell that to Mohamed Hirsi Dhore, the owner of a cinema in Mogadishu who was shot to death for trying to get a soccer game broadcast in his movie theatre. Also tell that to Sahro Indhoweyne, the young girl who was killed alongside Mr. Dhore.

If Islamic rule of law made Mogadishu safe, even for a brief moment in time, it was because people were afraid, and if fear is the motto then Nero would love your precious "Courts".

In North America we just call them "lynch mobs".

I take it that the Taliban are the saving grace of Afghanistan by this standard then?

Don't let your hatred for American foreign policy cloud your judgement that all things "anti-western" are a good thing.

These bozo's are not "good guys" by any stretch of the imagination.



The standard rule of law that the 'courts' would impose is nothing less than what we had here in the 'west' under the Inquisition. If the Inquisition is a 'standard of excellence' that you wish for the people of Somalia, then I suggest you brush up on your reading. Any religious zealot with a gun, or a sword for that matter, who claims to be the 'law' should have a chicken dropped on his head.

[basil_hayden]

Pwnt.

[Jack]

Jack, I already knew that you wouldn't care about the locals, but obviously the United States does. Why else would they send in special forces to help the Ethipions bring the ICU down, even after their first attempt to do so through the warlords failed.

(NOTE: Ironically, these American CIA operatives and special forces were supporting some of the same warlords who killed OUR OWN SOLDIERS in the Black Hawk Down incident, which just goes to prove that they really have no loyalty to our people whatsoever.)

Ironic? You have a gift for understatement!

Your points are well taken; but as for U.S policy in the region (perhaps everywhere), I don't claim to understand it. Bizarre and insane perhaps come closest, but even they fall short.

I suppose my forlorn hope is that things will get so messy, so problematic, that even our mentally deficient leaders will decide to step aside and let the locals play. I shan't hold my breath until that happens.

[Magus]

You have to be seriously shitting me Magnus. The Islamic Courts would of been the saving grace of Somalia?

Tell that to Mohamed Hirsi Dhore, the owner of a cinema in Mogadishu who was shot to death for trying to get a soccer game broadcast in his movie theatre. Also tell that to Sahro Indhoweyne, the young girl who was killed alongside Mr. Dhore.

If Islamic rule of law made Mogadishu safe, even for a brief moment in time, it was because people were afraid, and if fear is the motto then Nero would love your precious "Courts".

Hey, I never said they were god's angels. I merely made the
observation that for the first time since the early 1990's the streets were safe again.

Yes, there were diffently authouritarian tendencies in the ICU. Yes, there diffently were some innocent lives that were needlessly killed. But do you know what the sad thing is? That's the best thing that those people could hope for in this fucked up world.


Now, instead of a few protestors being killed, bodies are lining up in the streets.

The thing is, it's just like what Jack said. The United States didn't oust the ICU for any humanitarian reasons. In no way, shape or form was it their intention to save the Somalis. The only thing the powers desire is to save their own collective asses. Anyone who thinks any different, is severely deluded.

So instead of telling me how horrible a human being I am for desiring LESS people to be killed, LESS families to be destroyed...why don't you give me a better solution to Ethiopia's problems, lateralus, the correct solution? Because it certainly IS NOT the United States backing Ethiopia and warlords who are more muderous than the ICU ever would have been?

(By the way, I'm serious.)

[seldom_seen]

So instead of telling me how horrible a human being I am for desiring LESS people to be killed, LESS families to be destroyed...why don't you give me a better solution to Ethiopia's problems

http://www.trojancondoms.com/

[gg3]

SeldomSeen gets a "posting of the year" for the above.

If anyone here wonders how fascism came to Germany, Italy, and Spain, or how Stalinism came to Russia, you need only read Magus' posts.

"We're safer now."

Yes, and I'm sure the trains are running on time as well.

The "choice" between random violence in a collapsed state, and organized violence in a totalitarian state, is predicated on the idea that a given society completely lacks the capability for any other mode of organization. That idea in turn necessarily assumes that the members of such a society are somehow inferior humans, and what do you know?, that takes us right back to the founding premises of fascism, namely racial superiority & inferiority.

Or perhaps this particular case indicates that Magus really has an undrelying affinity for Sharia law, irrespective of Somalia or other specific instances...?

[Magus]

Or perhaps this particular case indicates that Magus really has an undrelying affinity for Sharia law, irrespective of Somalia or other specific instances...?

I'm sorry, but just what the fuck are you talking about? Please try again.

I don't see how my post can be construed to portray Somalis as "lesser beings." The view that I have on this issue is that the Somalis have a right to their own territorial souverignty, not to have foreigners come in and blow there country to hell. And could really give a shit if that government was Islamic, Christian, Buddhist, whatever. And it's the Ethiopians that are doing the killing even now as I waste my time responding to you.

As for me being facist, that is just idiotic. This is a disscussion of world issues, not some sort of trial of my character and I refused to be lectured on morality by some pompous ass.

The whole region is suffering from population overshoot of the resource base.

I'll second the proposal to carpet-bomb 'em with chickens, with the amendment that the chickens be laced with long-lasting contraceptives.

I'm sorry, you were saying something about racism?

Why don't you just shut the fuck up while you're still ahead and we'll call it a day?

[Jack]

The whole region is suffering from population overshoot of the resource base.

And that's the point. Warfare, disease, and famine are effective ways to correct overshoot. Delaying these corrective measures merely extends the overshoot, making it worse - and making the ultimate correction more severe.

Since we're all in global overshoot, reduction of the problem in local areas is desirable.

Ergo - let us cheer the 4 horsemen on. Their useful work keeps the resources flowing to us.