Peak Oil News and Message Boards

Look mate: peak oil will not result in the total breakdown of communications between states. There will still be merchants, diplomats and migrations, even granting the direst of predictions. Language will always be important.

Kaj wrote:On the other hand, does this not encourage linguistic sloth in Anglophone countries? At least relatively--much of the rest of the world is struggling to become bilingual, while we have much less desire or need to learn any other language.

It's a concern, of course. But there's the rub. Okay, you speak English. Most of the foreign businessmen and women you meet also speak English, either natively or ESL. They speak it to one another, too. It's not pride, it's not haughtiness or imperialism per se... it's just a convenience; a handy common set of symbols that some of us happen to learn from the cradle.

Having said that, which second language do you choose? Spanish, French, Russian, Arabic, Mandarin, Japanese? It's a fine and praiseworthy idea, but is it practical if you don't routinely come into contact with other speakers? If you're only marginally proficient in a language, there's a great potential for you to confuse an issue, or perhaps even give unintentional insult. On the other hand, you may win friends by demonstrating an interest in their culture... but again, which one do you choose?

Complicated issues. I personally wish we had a lingua franca that wasn't anyone's native tongue (like Esperanto), but that's not the world we're living in, at least right now.

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anagami wrote:English is useful, but that doesn't make its writting+pronunciation less retarded.

No arguments here, but the language has moved so far and wide that it's very unlikely that we can reform these aspects now.

anagami wrote:And deva-nagari is still much more beautiful than greek-latin writting... even japanese writting is more beautiful. Spanish is more detailed, Italian more elegant...

Aside from the suggestion Spanish is "more detailed", which could probably only be demonstrated in particulars but not in general, almost no point you're making here has anything to do with the utility of a body of common symbols, just their aesthetics, which is a matter almost entirely subjective and personal.

anagami wrote:English is useful, but that doesn't make its writting+pronunciation less retarded.

And deva-nagari is still much more beautiful than greek-latin writting... even japanese writting is more beautiful.

Deva-Nagari is more beautiful than the Roman script, but it is so complicated that its is almost impenetrable unless you are introduced to it at an early age, or can really apply yourself.

Just as irregularities in English spelling and pronunciation has created all kinds of problems for people trying to learn it. But these complications and nuances have done wonders for English poetry and wit.

Clarity versus nuance. Swings and roundabouts.

Nickel wrote:
No arguments here, but the language has moved so far and wide that it's very unlikely that we can reform these aspects now.

We would lose so much if we tried to reform our language into some sort of perfectly regimented pattern.

That is the stuff of dystopic nightmares, Orwell's newspeak.

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anagami wrote:Corporations trademarks are your "common collection of symbols", n00b.

Among other things. So are all the other languages, numbering systems, streets signs, hand gestures, etc., etc. And?

anagami wrote:Not all the world knows english fluently.

Who says it has to? Two hundred years ago, most of the Western world used French for diplomacy. A century from now, who knows what language the nations will find the most useful for international and business purposes? It might be English, it might be Mandarin, it might be one we wouldn't even guess.

But currently, a lot of people do know English. They've made an investment in learning it -- not because it's necessarily better than any other; languages are just sets of commonly-agreed-to symbols that enable the exchange of ideas, values, sentiments, concepts, and so on -- but because right now, it's simply the one that's the most common, mainly because of the business (and, yes, military) acumen of the British and the Americans in the past century or so. Don't get your nose out of joint; no one here is trumpeting that "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me" or something.

anagami wrote:I know Spanish, English and Italian fluently...

Noted. Which one are you finding the handiest to get your point across to all of us here?

anagami wrote:And Italian is more phonetical than Spanish;
which is much more phonetical than English.

Yeah, that and $2.79'll get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

anagami wrote:English fails the SIMPLE ACID TEST as no other language has FAILED.

Meaning what, exactly?

Nickel wrote:

anagami wrote:English fails the SIMPLE ACID TEST as no other language has FAILED.

Meaning what, exactly?

Nickel,

Be careful! He is a level 22 Bhodisatva master (see other threads for details) and will channel his Chakra over the internet to make your balls explode! I suggest you disconnect from the internet at once for your own safety. Or, bow down before your master...

anagami wrote:
English fails the SIMPLE ACID TEST as no other language has FAILED.

move on.

deprecate English... n00bs

I'd like to know what acid you've been testing buddy.