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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Mon 13 May 2019, 16:36:25
by AdamB
eclipse wrote:
AdamB wrote:The good news being, with Illinois gun laws, I sure won't be moving there. Ever.


Hi AdamB,
I'm watching the video you have linked in your signature, and I'm about a third of the way in. It's great so far, but I'm a little sceptical that the lithium costs can drop low enough, fast enough for where I think the talk is going.


I seem to recall folks saying something similar about oil, back when it was claimed to be running out during the 1970's energy crisis in the US. :-D

You are correct of course, any non-renewable is going to be an issue in terms of cost and availability at some point. Usually not as soon as expected, but it is the very word, the "non renewable" part. It should be noted that just because Tony is bullish on and mentions a particular type of battery, there is no more requirement that they remain primarily lithium based. Solid states seem to be the next big thing. And ultimately I think fuel cells are the better answer.

In any case, the future of personal transport isn't going to be burning precious chemical feedstocks like crude oil, that is just plain stupid.

eclipse wrote:Basically, batteries for EV's, great, but batteries to enable intermittent renewables to phase out nukes? I'm sceptical. Have you read this?
https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/ener ... -disrupted

PS: I'm at half way and he's just covered how long EV's will last. Mind blown!


Something about those lack of moving parts that really gives them an advantage, doesn't it? Running 100K plus on mine, just did the ICE maintenance for the next 100K. Battery still at or very close to same SOC as it was 5 years ago.

eclipse wrote:PPS: Aside from his question of when batteries + solar become 'disruptive' to utilities, when do batteries + solar let us run society without baseload, especially countries like Germany where renewables might be cut 90% for weeks at a time in winter? How on earth do you charge up those batteries for long enough?


Nukes? Natural gas power generation seems to have quite a decent (call it half century pretty easily) future in front of it.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Wed 15 May 2019, 01:57:49
by eclipse
Sorry, not a fan of any fossil fuel given what we're doing to our kids and grandkids. It's time to mass build out AP1000's or equivalent Gen3 reactor until they've perfected the Gen4's, both for the sake of our climate, and our immediate health. Did you know fossil fuels are actually really expensive? Together coal oil and gas particulates kill nearly 3 million people a year, which is about 650 Chernobyl disasters.
https://tinyurl.com/pqgdd5q
This is why George Monbiot says: “….when coal goes right it kills more people than nuclear power does when it goes wrong. It kills more people every week than nuclear power has in its entire history. And that’s before we take climate change into account.”
https://tinyurl.com/93nm9sn
The health costs nearly double the cost of coal! You pay once in your electricity bill, and again in your public health bill.
https://tinyurl.com/6m2o7c5
Dr James Hansen has calculated that by displacing coal, nuclear power has already saved 1.8 million lives.
https://tinyurl.com/ydx6mxrb

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Wed 15 May 2019, 19:00:32
by asg70
OK, back on topic.

Mercedes EQC is on the way. A whole bunch of reviews just emerged on Youtube. Heres one below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUEDCT4oQM

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Tue 28 May 2019, 19:57:26
by asg70
Two news items of note.

VW is scrambling to try to secure enough batteries for their ID line.

This reinforces the notion VW is serious, and yet it was a strategic mistake on their part to rely so heavily on an outside supplier. Then again, even Tesla is heavily dependent on Panasonic, despite the gigafactory.

Second news item is GM is working on a whole new fast-charge network for the US.

Sounds good at first but they don't want to really pay for it. They are essentially forming a startup company and expecting to bring in outside investors. Sort of a cowardly move.

Neither company plans to put money into this project, though. The two companies will create a separate corporation to build the charging network and other companies are being invited to invest in it. Neither GM nor Bechtel would name potential investors while discussions are still ongoing.


Hopefully those outside investors will step up as the more the merrier.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Wed 29 May 2019, 00:58:14
by EdwinSm

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Wed 29 May 2019, 04:47:47
by eclipse
I love that they've kept the same London red. Here's to keeping some design references to the old and traditional, while updating it to the new. Now if we could only restore the 'village green' (as some British citizens used to refer to the town square) and a sense of New Urban vitality around that, we might even have communities again! A mix of slowly increasing electric vehicle numbers (with some autonomous taxis as they conquer that pesky weather problem?) and recapturing a sense of public transport, trolley buses, and clever town design, and we can recapture not only some energy efficiency and climate solutions, but also a sense of home.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 17:11:10
by Plantagenet
Audi recalls its EV SUV due to battery fire risk

audi-recalls-its-electric-suv-over-battery-fire-risk/

This is very good news. Battery fires have been a problem for Tesla and other EV and PHEV manufacturers for years. Its good to see AUDI stepping up and admitting they have a potential problem with EV battery fires, resulting in a recall of all of their EV SUVs.

Cheers!

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 18:33:10
by GHung
Plantagenet wrote:Audi recalls its EV SUV due to battery fire risk

audi-recalls-its-electric-suv-over-battery-fire-risk/

This is very good news. Battery fires have been a problem for Tesla and other EV and PHEV manufacturers for years. Its good to see AUDI stepping up and admitting they have a potential problem with EV battery fires, resulting in a recall of all of their EV SUVs.

Cheers!


From your link:

An Audi spokesperson told Bloomberg that NO fires had been reported over the 1,644 E-Trons Audi has sold. According to the recall, Audi found moisture can seep into the battery cell through a wiring harness. There have been five cases worldwide where this has caused a battery fault warning.


Emphasis mine to expose what could be construed as a lie of omission. From one who accused me of lying on another thread. One who also continues to ignore that current statistics show that EV fires have occurred at a much lower rate than with conventional ICE vehicles.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Mon 10 Jun 2019, 20:00:09
by Plantagenet
GHung wrote:....one who accused me of lying on another thread.


I accused you of lying because you lied. You used the quote function and then you changed what was in the actual quote to some dopey thing you wanted to say. Intentionally isrepresenting what other people say is lying.

After you altered the quote I asked you not to do it, but for some reason that made you angry and this is now your third subsequent post on this topic.

Is it too much to ask that you not change what people say when you use the quote function? Its dishonest, OK?

There are only about 12 people posting here now and there is plenty of opportunity here for you to say whatever you want to say without you having to alter quotes and misrepresent what other people are saying.

I suggest you read what other posters say and then politely engage in conversation with others if you want to engage in discussion on the topics. If you want to say something make a post under your own name like everybody else does. Your tactic of misrepresenting what people actually say just leads to these kinds of back-and-forth exchanges, i.e. a total waste of time.

For the third time, can we please just discuss the thread topics now? THANKS!

ChEeRs!

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2019, 10:14:07
by AdamB
Plantagenet wrote:For the third time, can we please just discuss the thread topics now? THANKS!

ChEeRs!


Sure. You got those stats on all those people being incinerated inside their Tesla's yet?

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2019, 10:18:35
by AdamB
I am trying to switch the wife from her Tesla requirement to this VW. I want one, it has the right combination of space and power and coolness and I love the retro style of it. Plus, when it spontaneously combusts, there are plenty of windows and doors to escape through in order to not be incinerated like Planty says happens to those poor Tesla drivers!

Image

https://newsroom.vw.com/vehicles/future ... -electric/

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2019, 10:35:32
by Plantagenet
Jaguar is now recalling its new EV over concern about its regenerative braking technology

jaguar-ipace-recalled-over-fire-braking-risk

Its interesting to see companies trying to compete with TESLA in the EV space facing technological hurdles and issuing recalls over safety concerns. Thats why competition is good----as long as TESLA had the EV space pretty much to themselves runaway thermal events (i.e. fires) in the battery systems and other safety issues seemed intrinsic to EV cars. Now we see TESLA's competitors are making an effort to address their safety issue through recalls.

Cheers!

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2019, 14:19:25
by AdamB
Plantagenet wrote:Jaguar is now recalling its new EV over concern about its regenerative braking technology

jaguar-ipace-recalled-over-fire-braking-risk

Its interesting to see companies trying to compete with TESLA in the EV space facing technological hurdles and issuing recalls over safety concerns.


It is interesting to see that you can't find any reference to all those Tesla owners who sit there like lumps in their car seats while their Tesla bursts into flames and incinerates them. Can you please tell us when you are being serious about EVs rather than just making up crap because you don't like them and have zero experience with using them because hey...making stuff up is just how you roll?

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Tue 11 Jun 2019, 19:02:16
by Plantagenet
AdamB wrote:It is interesting to see that you can't find any reference to all those Tesla owners who sit there like lumps in their car seats while their Tesla bursts into flames and incinerates them.


But I did find a reference and I posted about it in the Tesla thread. You've ether forgotten it or you evidently didn't understand what you were reading.

Lets try again.

You apparently missed all the news reports and then you overlooked or just didn't understand my post discussing the ongoing lawsuit against TESLA brought by the family of a young man who died when the Tesla he was in burst into flames and incinerated him and another teenaged boy.

Its quite a tragic case.

Here is more info about it: the careening car hit a wall, the NTSB report says, the Tesla “erupted in flames.” This started a preventable “thermal runaway,” according to Chicago-based transportation attorney Phillip Corboy, representing the Monserratts with Fort Lauderdale’s Scott Schlesinger.

“The two battery packs in the car contain hundreds of small batteries that power everything on the car,” Corboy said. “If one of the batteries catches fire, every battery around it catches fire in short order.”


And an electrical fire burns differently from a gasoline or oil fire. Water and foam do not knock the fire out. As the NTSB report says, after using 200 to 300 gallons of water and foam in an attempt to extinguish the burning car, the battery blazed up again on the tow truck. It ignited again in the storage yard, requiring fire rescue workers to put it out.

The suit says Tesla should have treated the battery with “intumescent material to provide protection from the propagation of thermal runaway from one cell to adjacent cells.”


Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/busine ... rylink=cpy

And its not the first lawsuit against Tesla over issues with their battery technology. Tesla previously settled a class action lawsuit on this very same problem, but the problem still persists.

Get it now?

Cheers!

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Thu 13 Jun 2019, 13:28:48
by AdamB
Plantagenet wrote:
AdamB wrote:It is interesting to see that you can't find any reference to all those Tesla owners who sit there like lumps in their car seats while their Tesla bursts into flames and incinerates them.


But I did find a reference and I posted about it in the Tesla thread. You've ether forgotten it or you evidently didn't understand what you were reading.

Lets try again.


Sorry. According to you previously we didn't need to slam cars into walls or decapitate their owners prior to bursting into flames, you implied that Teslas burst into flames while sitting there all innocent like, and this happens so quickly that the poor owners, stunned by this design flaw of spontaneous combustion, were all innocently incinerated.

How about we discuss those victims, rather than the usual run of the mill, transport hits solid object, fuel ignites, people burn stories, brought to you by ICE powered machines, aircraft, ocean liners, motorcycles, jet skiis, race cars running something other than gasoline, etc etc.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Thu 13 Jun 2019, 13:47:49
by Outcast_Searcher
Plantagenet wrote:“The two battery packs in the car contain hundreds of small batteries that power everything on the car,” Corboy said. “If one of the batteries catches fire, every battery around it catches fire in short order.”

I've read articles and seen Youtube videos about how the large batteries are supposedly compartmentalized into modules, and each module should be able to contain any fire to a moderate and manageable size within the module -- at least under ordinary circumstances.

So, I can understand how this can get out of control after, say, a high speed accident which inflicts a lot of physical damage on a battery module's containment.

What I DON'T und erstand or find acceptable at all is how such horrific fires/explosions occur when such a car is say, just charging, or sitting in a garage, etc. To me, if they can't contain a fire within a module and prevent large fires, explosions, etc. -- then they need a completely different design.

And this goes for all BEV makers, not just Tesla.

In fact, this goes for HEV makers too.

As I was writing the last sentence above, it prompted me to search for Toyota Prius battery fires, given Toyota's long history with HEV's.

It seems the venerable Prius has its own fire issues re the traction battery, as per 2018 recalls.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rec ... fire-risk/

Toyota is recalling 192,000 of its 2016 to 2018 Prius hybrids sold in the U.S. because of a fire risk. Wiring in the front of the vehicle could wear over time and cause a short circuit, which the automaker said could cause a fire.

The recall is part of a larger campaign that includes more than 1 million vehicles worldwide, the majority sold in Japan.


https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/05/news/c ... index.html

CNN Business on the same 1 million Prius recall story.

...

And these are cited as being in 2015 to 2018 model Prius cars, per Consumer Reports. So this is a dangerous defect -- not something from a 10 or 15 year old car where excessive wear occurred somewhere.

So -- this certainly suggests to me that a whole new look at the situation, and set of standards need to be put in place for EV battery safety, given the potential for high intensity events (such as explosions or very large fires), from EV batteries, especially as EV's become common, and age.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Thu 13 Jun 2019, 13:57:50
by Plantagenet
AdamB wrote: you implied that Teslas burst into flames while sitting there all innocent like


Thats because Teslas have been known to burst into flames while sitting there all innocent like.

Just a couple of weeks ago a model X burst into flame while sitting at a supercharger in Belgium. Before that cars have burst into flame while parked along a street or sitting in a home garage. There is even a video of a Tesla bursting into flames while parked in public parking garage.

Image

Now would you please answer a question for me? Why don't you know your facts on this kind of thing? You claim to be a Tesla owner but you know surprisingly little about them.

Cheers!

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Thu 13 Jun 2019, 22:15:47
by asg70
I see Plant is continuing to attention-whore this thread, making it all about him and his need to be condescending to other posters. Just ignore the guy until he eventually finds a new shiny object to fixate on.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Sat 15 Jun 2019, 12:29:33
by GHung
Of course, Planty won't show you the hundreds of videos of regular ice cars catching fire and exploding, statistically at a much higher rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uiaZoMEqYY

That would make Planty nauseous due to his/her literally puking confirmation biases. Planty would rather accuse others of lying when they call out the blah, blah, blah nature of his/her comments.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 9

Unread postPosted: Sun 16 Jun 2019, 17:05:45
by AdamB
Plantagenet wrote:
AdamB wrote: you implied that Teslas burst into flames while sitting there all innocent like


Thats because Teslas have been known to burst into flames while sitting there all innocent like.


Your video doesn't show the surprised occupant sitting there inside innocently while it was happening. How many videos of that happening do you have to substantiate your prior claim?

And please don't claim that you are were mentally unstable when you claimed it because of a late night session of grief counseling with Guy.