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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020, 22:14:11
by diemos
mousepad wrote:The conclusions you're arriving at, man. Just because I don't believe in science to make life better, I'm not a doomer. I believe science is a very good tool to send a man to the moon. But science fails badly in things that matter to me. For example science can't make me happy or make me laugh. That's why I don't believe in science.


The correct term for science is "creationism", and I study the creation to learn its nature because it is the only source of knowledge available that I can be certain does not come from man. It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me. I might lie to myself about its nature but it always is, what it is.

But if you're looking for something to "believe in" to make you happy then you should stick to religion. The creation may be vast, ancient and wondrous, a harmony of mathematical perfection, but it has many aspects that you are not going to like ... at all.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020, 22:46:26
by mousepad
diemos wrote:It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me.

If you can read it right. Many a man reads what he wants to read or what he's told to read.
The vast majority of people have no idea about science. The most complex logic thought they can form is "I'm hungry therefore I must eat".

Those people are indoctrinated in school to believe science to be the big salvation. The savior of humankind. If we only believe in it with all our heart we can overcome any hardship. Yet most of them can't solve a linear equation.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020, 23:25:57
by diemos
mousepad wrote:Those people are indoctrinated in school to believe science to be the big salvation. The savior of humankind. If we only believe in it with all our heart we can overcome any hardship. Yet most of them can't solve a linear equation.


Well, we could start an entire new thread on the failings of science education in the K-12 system if you want.

But I'm sure that the people who spent a couple of decades desperately trying to find a way to keep their faces from rotting and falling off from leprosy would have been delighted to know about the germ theory of disease and antibiotics.

Science isn't salvation but it is useful.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Thu 19 Nov 2020, 23:36:38
by diemos
mousepad wrote:The most complex logic thought they can form is "I'm hungry therefore I must eat".


Most people's thinking doesn't go beyond, "I don't want this to be true, so it's not."

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:02:15
by Tanada
diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:The most complex logic thought they can form is "I'm hungry therefore I must eat".


Most people's thinking doesn't go beyond, "I don't want this to be true, so it's not."


That is a sad and sorry truth!

Most of the reason this thread has never been permanently locked is because I admit I don't know everything and if someone does actually invent a cold fusion like energy source there are a long string of arguments about its implications on this thread. It is pretty clear after so many years that Rossi hasn't got anything. If he did he could have moved to some remote town, built a few of his devices and gotten the locals interested in cheap energy and got himself a reputation as a successful mad scientist. Instead he pops up in the fringe media from time to time showing what would be quite fascinating demonstrations if they could be verified as authentic and making grand claims about how he is being stifled. Real inventors do stuff, they don't just constantly ask for donations to get to the "next step".

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:18:07
by mousepad
diemos wrote:
Most people's thinking doesn't go beyond, "I don't want this to be true, so it's not."


Including scientists. Be careful when claiming to hold the truth while dismissing the other man's truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:41:20
by diemos
mousepad wrote:Be careful when claiming to hold the truth while dismissing the other man's truth.


There is no other man's truth.

Ideas either match the physical world or they do not. If they do not they are not correct.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Fri 20 Nov 2020, 11:55:29
by mousepad
diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:Be careful when claiming to hold the truth while dismissing the other man's truth.


There is no other man's truth.

Ideas either match the physical world or they do not. If they do not they are not correct.


:-) If it were just so easy!
Since you cannot measure the physical world to total accuracy you won't be able to determine if you're correct or not.
Hence you have to assume. And once you assume, another man makes other assumption and whoops, you have disagreements.
But maybe i'm wrong and you are in fact the only and true beholder of the truth. Are you? If yes then you're underpaid, let me tell you that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Fri 20 Nov 2020, 12:08:54
by diemos
mousepad wrote::-) If it were just so easy!


We can use our understanding to design and build gizmos that actually work.

It's easy to believe anything you want if you never have to make anything actually work.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Sun 13 Dec 2020, 11:48:53
by evilgenius
diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:The conclusions you're arriving at, man. Just because I don't believe in science to make life better, I'm not a doomer. I believe science is a very good tool to send a man to the moon. But science fails badly in things that matter to me. For example science can't make me happy or make me laugh. That's why I don't believe in science.


The correct term for science is "creationism", and I study the creation to learn its nature because it is the only source of knowledge available that I can be certain does not come from man. It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me. I might lie to myself about its nature but it always is, what it is.

But if you're looking for something to "believe in" to make you happy then you should stick to religion. The creation may be vast, ancient and wondrous, a harmony of mathematical perfection, but it has many aspects that you are not going to like ... at all.

I just read a story about the physicist David Bohm. It quoted him saying some things about whether there ought to be a structure underneath quantum physics. How mathematics answers so many questions suggest there is, but that isn't proof enough. Beyond that, there are all kinds of spiritual reasons to insist there is a structure. It seems Germain to what you are saying.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Sun 13 Dec 2020, 18:55:35
by Outcast_Searcher
evilgenius wrote:
diemos wrote:
mousepad wrote:The conclusions you're arriving at, man. Just because I don't believe in science to make life better, I'm not a doomer. I believe science is a very good tool to send a man to the moon. But science fails badly in things that matter to me. For example science can't make me happy or make me laugh. That's why I don't believe in science.


The correct term for science is "creationism", and I study the creation to learn its nature because it is the only source of knowledge available that I can be certain does not come from man. It may be subtle and complicated but I know it never lies to me. I might lie to myself about its nature but it always is, what it is.

But if you're looking for something to "believe in" to make you happy then you should stick to religion. The creation may be vast, ancient and wondrous, a harmony of mathematical perfection, but it has many aspects that you are not going to like ... at all.

I just read a story about the physicist David Bohm. It quoted him saying some things about whether there ought to be a structure underneath quantum physics. How mathematics answers so many questions suggest there is, but that isn't proof enough. Beyond that, there are all kinds of spiritual reasons to insist there is a structure. It seems Germain to what you are saying.

Yet you can't spell germane nor proofread. But of course "seems" (re being emotional) trumps science, if you and endless Trump fact free voters wish it were so. :roll:

Spiritual. When there is objective evidence for the magical sky people, MUCH LESS, evidence to their credibility re quantum physics, be sure and let us know.

In the real world, no matter how much flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and those who claim that science can tell us nothing about AGW and Covid-19 claim their favorite RANDOM blog says so, the more they post nonsense, over time, the less credible they get.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Mon 14 Dec 2020, 05:30:13
by EnergyUnlimited
Outcast_Searcher wrote:In the real world, no matter how much flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and those who claim that science can tell us nothing about AGW and Covid-19 claim their favorite RANDOM blog says so, the more they post nonsense, over time, the less credible they get.

While getting old many of us (including you) are getting decoupled from reality.
Actually between general public these people are getting more credibility while the credibility of mainstream science goes down the drain.
They are already trumping official narration in most of aspects of everyday life. Alex Jones is much more trusted these days than any scientist you can name.
And look on all these magazines for women filled with advices to keep healthy by placing copper wires or conkers under the bed to keep negative energies away.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Sun 28 Feb 2021, 22:05:35
by diemos
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Actually between general public these people are getting more credibility while the credibility of mainstream science goes down the drain.
They are already trumping official narration in most of aspects of everyday life. Alex Jones is much more trusted these days than any scientist you can name.
And look on all these magazines for women filled with advices to keep healthy by placing copper wires or conkers under the bed to keep negative energies away.


Because they take for granted the world they live in. It'll be fascinating to watch them try to repair a broken MRI machine by anointing it with essential oils. Hint: It won't work.

Idiocracy: here we come.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 5

Unread postPosted: Mon 01 Mar 2021, 22:07:12
by Outcast_Searcher
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:In the real world, no matter how much flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and those who claim that science can tell us nothing about AGW and Covid-19 claim their favorite RANDOM blog says so, the more they post nonsense, over time, the less credible they get.

While getting old many of us (including you) are getting decoupled from reality.
Actually between general public these people are getting more credibility while the credibility of mainstream science goes down the drain.
They are already trumping official narration in most of aspects of everyday life. Alex Jones is much more trusted these days than any scientist you can name.
And look on all these magazines for women filled with advices to keep healthy by placing copper wires or conkers under the bed to keep negative energies away.

So by believing in science vs. nonsense makes me "decoupled from reality"? So by not being a believer in Trump nonsense makes me "decoupled" from reality"?

Whenever I take a peek at your posts, I'm reminded of why I put you on my ignore list.

Big hint: Just because nonsense is currently popular with the ignorant, does NOT make it credible.

Does calling advice "advices" make you credible?

I'll sign up for not saying "scientifically credible" vs. just credible, since if credibility becomes a popularity contest among the clueless, we're well and truly done as a society.