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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 09:21:25
by dolanbaker
Something tells me that the "hiccup" was staged to gain maximum publicity, after all, no one is really going to buy a vehicle and drive it in area where flying steel balls will be aimed at it.

If the glass didn't break, the news coverage would have been far more muted.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 11:59:47
by rockdoc123
after all, no one is really going to buy a vehicle and drive it in area where flying steel balls will be aimed at it.


except maybe the police in downtown Chicago

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 13:37:43
by asg70
dolanbaker wrote:If the glass didn't break, the news coverage would have been far more muted.


Nope. The vehicle is weird enough that it would have gotten tons of coverage regardless.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 13:41:23
by AdamB
rockdoc123 wrote:
after all, no one is really going to buy a vehicle and drive it in area where flying steel balls will be aimed at it.


except maybe the police in downtown Chicago


Nope, not tough enough for ChiRaq. A full on MRAP is what is needed there.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 14:50:06
by EnergyUnlimited
asg70 wrote: Not to say that you have to learn to love to drive something that looks like this, but just that progress will move forward regardless of luddites.

Progress as understood by increase of entropy definitely yes.
Technological progress - only up to constrains dictated by properties of matter, limits on engineering and limits on functioning advanced societies.
So for example climate change, overpopulation, spread of idiocracy from the West to all other corners of the world or global pandemic can nullify recent progress in short to medium term.
Industrial revolution might only be a bubble.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 16:43:23
by asg70
EnergyUnlimited wrote:climate change, overpopulation, spread of idiocracy from the West to all other corners of the world or global pandemic can nullify recent progress in short to medium term.


What I think is most likely to happen is that EVs will scale up over the next 10 years or so to the point that even if oil depletion kicks into high gear I don't think we'll face the sort of Mad Max scenario peakers have been waiting for all this time. The OTHER dooms will take center stage instead.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 16:53:17
by EnergyUnlimited
asg70 wrote:What I think is most likely to happen is that EVs will scale up over the next 10 years or so to the point that even if oil depletion kicks into high gear I don't think we'll face the sort of Mad Max scenario peakers have been waiting for all this time. The OTHER dooms will take center stage instead.

Climate change may well deliver Mad Max within 2-5 decades.
Actually (assuming we call Arab migrants in Europe climate refugees) we can already see Mad Max land emerging here and there in Western Europe.
So for example Eurostat have reported rape statistics:
Image
Funny thing is that approximately the more woman rights particular country have, the more rapes are going on there. But again, number of woman rights and number of Muslims in a given country for some reason go hand in hand.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sun 24 Nov 2019, 20:07:37
by asg70
The linkage between climate change and muslim immigration is currently weak, IMHO.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 14:39:27
by Tanada
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Climate change may well deliver Mad Max within 2-5 decades. Actually (assuming we call Arab migrants in Europe climate refugees) we can already see Mad Max land emerging here and there in Western Europe.
So for example Eurostat have reported rape statistics:
Image
Funny thing is that approximately the more woman rights particular country have, the more rapes are going on there. But again, number of woman rights and number of Muslims in a given country for some reason go hand in hand.


There is a serious problem with these kind of self reporting statistics. In heavily Muslim culture countries like Serbia women do not willingly report rape because under Sharia law it is only rape if three men independently verify force was used. If force was not used then you are branded a temptress, not a victim of rape. The consequences are dire for women who make a rape claim and then get labeled not as a victim but as a perpetrator of sexual promiscuity. This effect is not limited to Muslim countries either, until the late 20th century in North America claiming rape would result in a woman being questioned mercilessly about her past sexual experiences in court in front of the man or men who had violated her. If the victim were white and wealthy things might turn out differently, but the only poor women who got the benefit of the doubt were women who blamed a minority male of perpetrating the rape. African American and Hispanic American males accused of raping a "white" European American female were frequently convicted even on flimsy evidence while at the same time an African American woman raped by a European American male had a very hard time getting a conviction against the perpetrator.

These kind of cultural distortions make a self reporting analysis of "rapes per 100,000" very suspect in terms of accuracy IMO. Are women in Muslim or "machismo" oriented cultures safer from rape, or is the cost of reporting a rape so high it is heaping another injustice on top of the initial crime of rape?

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 16:13:38
by EnergyUnlimited
@Tanada,
Serbia is one of most Muslim hating cultures known. Hating Muslims is an important factor of Serbian national identity.
That is because Serbs were long, long time bullied by Turks.
Serbs very much like Russians are Orthodox Christians.
This effect is not limited to Muslim countries either, until the late 20th century in North America claiming rape would result in a woman being questioned mercilessly about her past sexual experiences in court in front of the man or men who had violated her.

And rightfully so, as a large proportion of rape claims is made up.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 16:28:58
by dolanbaker
@Tanada, I assume you meant to say Bosnia–Herzegovina, this was the area of Yugoslavia that has the majority Muslim population.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 18:39:03
by Plantagenet
Elon Musk just explained why the unbreakable glass in the windows of his EV truck broke during his demo.

elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-window-glass-broke-explanation

Musk said he hit the door of the car with a sledgehammer first and that broke the unbreakable glass. Then, when the steel balls hit the unbreakable glass it cracked because he had already broken the unbreakable glass----so the steel balls weren't actually to blame for braking the unbreakable glass.

I don't know about you, but I think Elon's excuse is pretty weak. If he broke the unbreakable glass when he hit the door with a hammer rather then he hit the unbreakable glass with a steel ball, the significance is the same: the unbreakable glass isn't actually unbreakable.

Image
EARTH TO ELON MUSK: Its irrelevant whether it was the hammer or the steel balls or both in combination that broke the unbreakable glass....either way it was SMASHED into pieces so it isn't actually unbreakable, in spite of your claims and excuses.


Cheers!

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 20:10:26
by Outcast_Searcher
Plantagenet wrote:Elon Musk just explained why the unbreakable glass in the windows of his EV truck broke during his demo.

elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-window-glass-broke-explanation

Musk said he hit the door of the car with a sledgehammer first and that broke the unbreakable glass. Then, when the steel balls hit the unbreakable glass it cracked because he had already broken the unbreakable glass----so the steel balls weren't actually to blame for braking the unbreakable glass.

I don't know about you, but I think Elon's excuse is pretty weak. If he broke the unbreakable glass when he hit the door with a hammer rather then he hit the unbreakable glass with a steel ball, the significance is the same: the unbreakable glass isn't actually unbreakable.

Image
EARTH TO ELON MUSK: Its irrelevant whether it was the hammer or the steel balls or both in combination that broke the unbreakable glass....either way it was SMASHED into pieces so it isn't actually unbreakable, in spite of your claims and excuses.
Cheers!

I can't recall once when Musk or Tesla has failed that Musk has done a "Buffett" and said something like "Aw shucks. I screwed up" . Instead, it's blame something, anything else, whether that makes sense or not.

One reason Buffett (another billionaire who runs a huge complex corporation) is so dearly loved by so many is his completely self-effacing approach to things. How can you be mad at a guy who basically takes the blame for ANYTHING that goes wrong where he was even peripherally involved, says he'll try to do better next time, and gets on with things. Oh, and pretty much the same when things go really well -- he'll heap praise/credit on others in his organization. Pretty much the OPPOSITE of the Musk glory-hog and hyper marketing approach, it seems to me.

...

I can't wait to see who/what Musk blames the epic fail of his claims re Tesla's being "full self driving" and Telsa having a "million strong robo-taxi business" that brings so much income to Tesla owners that it makes their Teslas all appreciate wildly in value, in 2020. Or that within 2 years (so April of 2021), Tesla will be making cars without steering wheel or pedals (i.e. true certified level 5 FSD, ready to go in volume, at affordable prices).

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/22/elon-mu ... -year.html

(Big oil conspiracies? Computer conspiracies? Incompetent suppliers of parts? (But NOT Tesla, of course). Or perhaps the "we could do it but we're going to wait because it's not quite perfect) line he tried with one of the cross country promises passed with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show for progress.)

Because:

1). All his other FSD claims have been complete failures re the fully automated cross country drives by the end of 2017, 2018, etc have been epic failures.

2). All indications of his serious competition seeking FSD are way ahead of Musk, and backing off earlier aggressive claims of offering FSD vehicles in the early 2020's, and admitting that it is a VERY HARD problem which will take decades to solve -- and in some cases doubting whether it can EVER be solved for the general case (not strictly geo-fenced, or limited to certain weather conditions, etc.)

....

What I don't get is that no matter how much clown-car stuff comes out of his mouth, how many times, how irresponsible or even illegal (like "420 funding secured" or "pedo guy"), his MANY backers love him no matter what. (Not sure if it's simple greed, they really believe he is "saving the earth", or it's just classic, epic, stupidity/gullibility).

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 20:43:12
by asg70
Elon does admit mistakes. He admitted the whole "alien dreadnought" thing was a mistake. He admitted the falcon wing doors were a mistake. Of course, up to the point when he capitulates, it's deny, deny, deny.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Mon 25 Nov 2019, 22:53:04
by frankthetank
Not sure if anyone watches the car guy Doug Demuro on YT..but he had a little talk about the truck...he also thinks it's the ugliest car/truck ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-0DdRHA-ZQ&t=1s

With Tesla's talent..they had to have some really excellent designs..

This thing will be years and years away from being built (hopefully never). They keep kicking the roadster back year after year... You hear very little about that thing. That is the carrot they dangle to these people to push Teslas..referral program... a couple of YT'ers have a couple of roadsters coming their way...that is if they even get into production.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Tue 26 Nov 2019, 09:06:00
by GHung
Outcast_Searcher wrote:.........

I can't recall once when Musk or Tesla has failed that Musk has done a "Buffett" and said something like "Aw shucks. I screwed up" . Instead, it's blame something, anything else, whether that makes sense or not. .............


Or it could be that Musk is the consummate engineer and problem solver. Unlike you, he sees the blaming process as wasted time and energy. Indeed, I don't recall you being particularly self-critical. Then, again, maybe you are always right about everything (in your own mind).

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Tue 26 Nov 2019, 15:42:15
by AdamB
Tesla update!!!

Two feet of snow today....3 Teslas made it to work. The S is an AWD, I'm pretty sure the 2 3 models are rear wheel drive.

Not too shabby! My EV gets stuck in my driveway with a 1/4 inch of snow, the traction control just basically turns off the power and the car just sits there.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2019, 14:07:03
by Outcast_Searcher
asg70 wrote:Elon does admit mistakes. He admitted the whole "alien dreadnought" thing was a mistake. He admitted the falcon wing doors were a mistake. Of course, up to the point when he capitulates, it's deny, deny, deny.

OK. You're right. So just like all famous white collar criminals (aside from the 420 funding secured and pedo guy thing, I'm not saying he's a criminal -- just identifying a class of personalities) I can think of who've been in the news, it's deny, deny, deny until FINALLY, he may capitulate when the evidence is just overwhelming. ON THE RARE OCCASION.

So pretty much the opposite of stellar marks on that score, IMO -- which was my main point. And again, that says even moderately rational observers shouldn't be anywhere near so confident in his wilder assertions, IMO.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2019, 16:09:29
by asg70
Outcast_Searcher wrote:even moderately rational observers shouldn't be anywhere near so confident in his wilder assertions, IMO.


Musk always has a running list of etas/claims that are way off. The most recent ones are related to self-driving. Remember the cross-country trip they were supposed to do years ago? It still hasn't happened. And it's hard to make it happen when your autopilot team is suffering so much turnover.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/09/self-dri ... year-musk/

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2019, 16:24:17
by Outcast_Searcher
asg70 wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:even moderately rational observers shouldn't be anywhere near so confident in his wilder assertions, IMO.


Musk always has a running list of etas/claims that are way off. The most recent ones are related to self-driving. Remember the cross-country trip they were supposed to do years ago? It still hasn't happened. And it's hard to make it happen when your autopilot team is suffering so much turnover.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/09/self-dri ... year-musk/

Yup. As I've pointed to recently, including the whole huge robo-taxi fleet claim in 2020, which he hasn't backed off of.

I would also include what I call dumb summon, but of course Tesla calls "smart summon", so they can book millions of their FSD spending into revenue -- as if either:

a). Many customers will buy a Tesla because of dumb summon.

b). The state of dumb summon at 0 to 5 mph doesn't show how wildly ridiculous the claims for FSD to the extent of a giant robo-taxi fleet earning Tesla owners $tens of thousands in 2020 is.

And of course, re the failed cross country unassisted assertions, mum's the word from Tesla, since they're now dangling newer, shinier objects.

To me all this wouldn't be so bad if it were just laughed off as stupid "free publicity" stunts by Musk, but a whole horde of Tesla fanbois defend him to the hilt, including believing his FSD claims right down the line. And of course, a large segment of the media and the car buying public isn't sure what to think.