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Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 16:03:49
by Outcast_Searcher
Plantagenet wrote:The car wasn't charging or even plugged in. It just self-combusted.

I must confess I'm disappointed to read this since TESLA recently announced they had "fixed" the self-combustion problem. Maybe they will now issue a fix to correct their latest fix and really fix it.
Cheers!

I definitely agree on the issue re announcing a fix previously (reducing charging speeds). Apparently Tesla TRIED to fix the problem, or did something to be able to claim they had it in hand.

Of course, as with so many things with Tesla, when the incidents continue to occur, just another ding in Elon's/Tesla's credibility.

OTOH, with the various reports in recent months, it's clearly not just Tesla that has this problem. HEV's increasingly are being reported with this kind of issue, so it's not just big BEV batteries, etc.

Given their track record re admitting to defects or fixing serious problems with their cars, Tesla won't do anything expensive to fix the problem until they are forced to. Their financials are already terrible, and when they go to the markets to borrow money, the terms are getting worse.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Fri 12 Jul 2019, 18:50:55
by GHung
Given their track record re admitting to defects or fixing serious problems with their cars, Tesla won't do anything expensive to fix the problem until they are forced to.


Uh,,, they've changed their battery configurations and chemistry, moving away from the 18650 cells to larger cells; even a redesigned packaging/cooling system.

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sat 13 Jul 2019, 17:35:56
by asg70
They make continual changes across the board, but that doesn't change the fact that their existing cars could have recall-grade faults. This is all part and parcel of Tesla's trial-and-error approach which works in software but fails miserably with manufacturing. You can't fix a battery design flaw with an OTA update.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Thu 25 Jul 2019, 08:35:14
by kublikhan
Electric car giant Tesla had its stock plunge over 10 percent in after-hours trading after posting a $408 million loss in Q2 2019—despite shipping record numbers of cars.

The company produced about 87,000 cars in the quarter and shipped some 95,200 of them throughout the quarter and generated about $6.3 billion in revenue. The $408 million is an improvement over its $702 million loss the prior quarter, and some $117 million off the losses were slated as “restructuring charges related to layoffs and store closings.” Tesla also said it ended the quarter with $5 billion in cash, more than at any point in its history. However, the Times wrote that the showing was still under analyst expectations, resulting in the stock drop:
"The second-quarter loss amounted to $2.31 per share. Revenue jumped to $6.3 billion, from $4.5 billion in the first three months of the year. Both figures came in below Wall Street’s expectations. Analysts had expected a loss of $1.27 per share and revenue of $6.5 billion. Tesla shares fell about 10 percent in extended trading."

Tesla is spending heavily on a Model 3 plant in China and fueled the record deliveries in part by slashing prices (including a $1,000 reduction of the cheapest Model 3's price to $38,990 last week). It is “unclear how much money, if any” Tesla makes on the cheaper versions of the Model 3, and the entire line makes up about 80 percent of the deliveries. An additional problem is that sales of its more expensive cars, the premium Model S and the SUV Model X, are in decline as customers pick up the Model 3. “It is obvious the appetite for the Model S and X is not that strong. The Model 3 is cannibalizing sales of the S and X.”
Tesla Posts Record Deliveries in Q2 2019, But Still Lost $408 Million

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Thu 25 Jul 2019, 09:12:27
by Cog
Sure, they lost money on every car but they make it up with volume. ;)

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:23:42
by Plantagenet
Cog wrote:....they lost money on every car but they make it up with volume. ;)


IN the past when Tesla lost money all Elon had to do was issue another tranche of stock and all the Tesla fanbois would buy it and Elon would take their money and Tesla would stumble on for another six months with Elon saying how great everything was until Tesla lost huge amounts of money again and then Elon would issue more stock and the Tesla fanbois would buy it and then....

But that game is getting old. Even the most blindly loyal of the Tesla fanbois has got to realize at some time that Tesla losing almost half a billion dollars in a quarter isn't sustainable.

Image

Cheers!

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Thu 01 Aug 2019, 11:51:46
by StarvingLion
Cog wrote:Sure, they lost money on every car but they make it up with volume. ;)


Cultural Marxist Cog (former War Hawk), what are you laughing about?

The other crookmobile company BMW stock has tanked in the past year too. Ford always tanking. LootTheTreasuryIca will soon only be able to afford the frame of car by 2023.

Cog says the bankrupt "federal" "reserve" is producing massive wealth. I guess they must be buying Lear Jets and riding around in limos because they aren't buying BMW's and Tesla sports cars.

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Thu 01 Aug 2019, 12:34:03
by Outcast_Searcher
StarvingLion wrote:The other crookmobile company BMW stock has tanked in the past year too. Ford always tanking.

OTOH, look at a long term chart of Toyota (hint, strong upward trend line over time), and tell us how it's impossible to make money making cars.

Or tell us how electric cars simply can't possibly work, because Tesla is run by a lying maniac.

You'll be credible, just like you always are. :shock:

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sat 03 Aug 2019, 12:32:59
by EdwinSm
Coming back from a meeting out in the country, we were stuck on a winding country road behind a Tesla (Model S), so I had a long time to contemplate it as they kept firmly to the speed limits. Some thoughts....
* The car had a very low suspension, that would make it difficult to use on some un-made-up roads (which tend to have depressions where the wheels run).
* The wide wheel base seemed like it would give great stability to the car.
* Its acceleration (each time the speed limit rose) was impressive.
* The owner took great care with any speed bumps in the road, slowing more than most car owners would.

Impressive looking ride, but not for me.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sat 03 Aug 2019, 14:19:38
by Outcast_Searcher
EdwinSm wrote:Coming back from a meeting out in the country, we were stuck on a winding country road behind a Tesla (Model S), so I had a long time to contemplate it as they kept firmly to the speed limits. Some thoughts....
* The car had a very low suspension, that would make it difficult to use on some un-made-up roads (which tend to have depressions where the wheels run).
* The wide wheel base seemed like it would give great stability to the car.
* Its acceleration (each time the speed limit rose) was impressive.
* The owner took great care with any speed bumps in the road, slowing more than most car owners would.

Impressive looking ride, but not for me.

Articles I've read have pointed out the low suspension makes it almost completely unusable on off-road terrain. Which makes the Model Y, their supposed "SUV" offering a total joke, since it's just a fat Model 3 with the same issues -- not really an SUV at all.

There have been plenty of complaints of flats with the low-profile tires at potholes where the normal traffic just keeps going with no problems.

Tesla definitely has 0-60 acceleration and stability (low center of gravity) as bragging points. The problem, I think, is there are far too many very weak points, like high prices, poor durability, poor build quality, and very poor service to garner the middle class. They could get there, but there is going to be a LOT of EV competition within a few years between BEV's all along the price spectrum, and HEV's, etc.

It's a horse race since Tesla is in the lead, but with all their problems, I'm doubting it's one they can win -- at least relative to their very high stock valuation (more like 10 times book value than the traditional 1-ish times book value for a car maker).

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sat 10 Aug 2019, 12:37:51
by StarvingLion
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
StarvingLion wrote:The other crookmobile company BMW stock has tanked in the past year too. Ford always tanking.

OTOH, look at a long term chart of Toyota (hint, strong upward trend line over time), and tell us how it's impossible to make money making cars.

Or tell us how electric cars simply can't possibly work, because Tesla is run by a lying maniac.

You'll be credible, just like you always are. :shock:


Toyota Stock hasn't gone anywhere in the past year either. Toyota is a Mafia. They're all living in tiny cages in Jpana so this freeloader can afford his depends.

Tesla is a Mafia.

Its impossible to make an affordable EV.

By 2025 a nissan leaf tin can ev will cost $50k.

Fuggetaboutit.

You worthless sacks can't even afford a hamburger.

Re: Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sat 10 Aug 2019, 12:53:43
by Outcast_Searcher
StarvingLion wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:
StarvingLion wrote:The other crookmobile company BMW stock has tanked in the past year too. Ford always tanking.

OTOH, look at a long term chart of Toyota (hint, strong upward trend line over time), and tell us how it's impossible to make money making cars.

Or tell us how electric cars simply can't possibly work, because Tesla is run by a lying maniac.

You'll be credible, just like you always are. :shock:


Toyota Stock hasn't gone anywhere in the past year either. Toyota is a Mafia. They're all living in tiny cages in Jpana so this freeloader can afford his depends.

Tesla is a Mafia.

Its impossible to make an affordable EV.

By 2025 a nissan leaf tin can ev will cost $50k.

Fuggetaboutit.

You worthless sacks can't even afford a hamburger.

Attention span of a gnat. Thinking of a gnat -- congrats.

Do you even know what "over time" means? :roll:

...

But of course if you keep making more and more nonsensical statements like it's "impossible" to make an "affordable EV, that makes you right if you just do it often enough. /s

In the real world, the $30Kish price point is well below the average for a new ICE these days, and it's the point which the coming competition like VW is aiming for, to start. And that's before the savings on electricity vs. gasoline for fuel. And that's before tax credits, temporary as they are (though there's more talk on Capital Hill about having more for BEV's). And that's before battery costs drop through increased volumes, know-how, etc. between now and 2025.

Oh, and HEV's, which are EV's, start below $30K for good, practical, reliable, efficient family cars like the current generation Accord and Camry HEV's.

And constantly setting your doom timeline 5 years out and claiming how people can't "afford" anything 5 years out isn't credible year after year after year. Just like with all the fast crash perma-doomers.

Oh, and how do you know the financial positions of everyone here? You don't. Stop acting like a retarded infant (and I don't mind using a politically incorrect word in your case, as you constantly earn the moniker).

To start, justify your claim that it's "impossible" to build an affordable EV, given that they already are being made, have been for years, and many more are soon to arrive.

Hints: 1). HEV's are EV's.
2). Not all EV's are overaly expensive, given fuel costs.
3). Calling people more names won't cut it re justification.

(If you don't like me giving you hints like you're a small child, then don't act that way).

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Sat 10 Aug 2019, 21:17:24
by asg70
Outcast_Searcher wrote:Articles I've read have pointed out the low suspension makes it almost completely unusable on off-road terrain.


High-end teslas offer air-suspension (not yet available on Model 3). So you could in theory raise it up. What makes it unusable for true off-road terrain is the cheap plastic parts with delicate electronics all around the wheel-wells and bumpers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie79Jk9Ob2s

A real off-road EV (one you wouldn't worry about hitting a log or a big rock) would be the Bollinger B1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dav55oUJ-w

Of course, the freeway range of a box like this would be atrocious. Life is full of tradeoffs.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 11:51:51
by jawagord
Our friends at WUWT have uncovered another gem. Walmart suing Tesla over solar panels.

Why were multiple Walmart stores located all over the country suddenly catching fire? The answer was obvious and startling: the stores all had Tesla solar panels installed by Tesla on their roofs. At each location, the fire had originated in the Tesla solar panels.

To this day, Tesla has not provided Walmart with the complete set of final “root cause” analyses needed to identify the precise defects in its systems that caused all of the fires described above. The number of defects, however, is overwhelming and plainly indicative of systemic, widespread failures by Tesla to meet the standard of care, as set forth in the governing contracts, as to the solar systems installed at Walmart’s stores.


https://www.scribd.com/document/4225550 ... po7H-KCMqk

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 11:59:59
by StarvingLion
Lets all go to Scamerica and run a Solar Panel scam.

Ghung the Fake Solar Peasant will be proud!

Don't worry the stock won't go down, just another Mafia.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 13:14:59
by GHung
Pulled that one right out of your arse, eh? Feel better now?

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 14:40:27
by Outcast_Searcher
StarvingLion wrote:Lets all go to Scamerica and run a Solar Panel scam.

Ghung the Fake Solar Peasant will be proud!

Don't worry the stock won't go down, just another Mafia.

Tesla is a fiasco re quality across a large range of it's products.

This doesn't make solar panels "a scam", except in the delusional minds of certain people.

Of course, the Tesla bears are having a field day with this, and rightfully so.

Given all Musk's misleading comments, calling Tesla a "scam" is starting to look less silly, although they do make real products -- just with an alarming string of quality issues and with an alarming record on customer service (given the scale of complaints and the concerns from reputable sources like Consumer Reports, re the frequency of problems in customer surveys).

So if you want your hobby here to call things scams, why not point at things which at least MIGHT qualify, like Tesla (unless and until it proves otherwise by fixing its quality and service reputations, which aside from endless Musk lip flapping, it seems far from doing).

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 14:46:32
by asg70
All I can say is it takes a special kind of incompetence to make solar panels of all things catch fire. No batteries there. The amount of delusion Tesla fanbois need to be under to maintain their unwavering support is unprecedented.

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 15:48:57
by Outcast_Searcher
asg70 wrote:All I can say is it takes a special kind of incompetence to make solar panels of all things catch fire. No batteries there. The amount of delusion Tesla fanbois need to be under to maintain their unwavering support is unprecedented.

Yeah, per the articles I read there were MASSIVE problems re the installers doing the job right, safety checks, basic things like grounding, etc.

It's as though no one is really in charge of anything except making grand pronouncements about future success.

Hmmmmm. What does that remind me of, re Tesla? I'll think of it eventually. :roll:

Re: THE Tesla Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2019, 16:18:55
by GHung
Not sure what Tesla's PV issue is. I have panels from four different manufacturers (my first 4 Siemens panels, manufacture date 10/94, still outputting at/near full rating) and have had exactly zero problems. It could be because I installed them properly myself, but there is simply not much to go wrong with the panels themselves, at least in terms of catching fire and all that. I also installed quality balance-of-system components and have had no problems beyond replacing one cooling fan on the manufacturer's recommendation, parts provided free-of-charge, post warranty period. Twenty+ years off-grid, perhaps the best investment I'll ever make.
I don't own any Tesla products, and, as with Apple, I'll never own any Tesla products (unless I get something of theirs for free just to play with and abuse). As for Musk, I'm a big fan of SpaceX. I never miss a launch. Cool factor is over the top.