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Novus wrote:

To which I have to say:

Sorry to crash the thread, but is there any connection between ZPE theory and the putative-technology/physics that is supposedly used to, for example, make UFOs levitate (that is, by effectively making their mass approach zero)?

I'm curious. Thanks.

Zentric wrote:Sorry to crash the thread, but is there any connection between ZPE theory and the putative-technology/physics that is supposedly used to, for example, make UFOs levitate (that is, by effectively making their mass approach zero)?

I'm curious. Thanks.

Ah.

Uh huh. probe weilding et's with bogon subspace arrays warping the enfolded scalar
field to great effect. The Aether lives.

Welcome to wonderland:
http://www.cheniere.org/books/excalibur ... index.html

albente wrote:

Novus wrote:

To which I have to say:

Good one. But since Winston Smith much-earlier theorized that 2 + 2 = 4, it would seem his equation would be twice as relevant as yours, Albente.

burned...

burned like a cheap barrel of oil

Novus wrote:Looks like zero point energy might not just be the rantings of mad scientists after all.

Well, they're mad, but they're not scientists. If they were, they would know that ZPE is nonsense.

Avo
(tenured professor in a top-10 US physics dept)

Dezakin wrote:Bullshit makes the flowers grow, one by one, row by row.

LOL! That's hilarious, but what does it mean?

sign me up for three when they get them working (or is having 3X infinite amount of energy being greedy)

anyways, I'm still baffled people are actually discussing this.

For those of you that believe in it, may I recommend reading your grade school science books. Particularly the part about "Energy is neither created nor destroyed, just changes form"

And if you still believe in it, may I suggest reading PT Barnum's book

And if you still believe in it after that may I suggest that you send me a check to invest in my new ZPE module. I just have a few more kinks to work out, but it should be ready for production shortly

These references clearly demonstrate that ZPE is real:

A thought experiment published by physicist Robert Forward in 1984 demonstrated how the Casimir force could in principle be used to extract energy from the quantum vacuum (Phys. Rev. B, 30, 1700, 1984). Theoretical studies in the early 1990s (Phys. Rev. E, 48, 1562, 1993) verified that this was not contradictory to the laws of thermodynamics (since the zero-point energy is different from a thermal reservoir of heat).
Inertial mass and the quantum vacuum fields
Bernard Haisch, Alfonso Rueda & York Dobyns, Annalen der Physik, 10, 393-414 (2001).
Inertial mass as reaction of the vacuum to acccelerated motion
A. Rueda & B. Haisch, Phys. Letters A, vol. 240, No. 3, pp. 115-126, (1998).
Inertia as a zero-point-field Lorentz force
B. Haisch, A. Rueda & H.E. Puthoff, Physical Review A, Vol. 49, No. 2, pp. 678-694 (1994).
Plus numerous others quoted at the bottom of this link
http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html


And it’s discussed in this link
http://www.nature.com/nature/fow/010719.html

The question that now arises is whether there are real practical commercial applications.

I'll try to find something on this.

Practical applications are listed at the bottom of this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

Claims to Working Devices
Magnetic Power Inc. is Nearing Pre-Production Stage with Zero Point Energy Modules - Modules built with off-the-shelf components are expected to generate electricity anywhere, any time, for less than 1 cent per kilowatt-hour. One kW modules expected for market next year. (PESN; June 17, 2005)
New Science and a Revolutionary Energy Breakthrough - Mark Goldes says his firm is developing pre-commercial generators. These one kilowatt Magnetic Power Modules™ are expected to be in production next year. (ZPEnergy; June 16, 2005)
Chaim Yankle ZPE Device - Says he's working on a ZPE machine that "absorbs the energy of ZPE amplifies it and rectifies it, making a modicum of free energy in the process. It uses a wire container for the ZPE and an energy extractor module. The resultant ZPE energy is then amplified and rectified for energy production." (PESWiki; Jan. 8, 2004)
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/ZPE/

Zentric wrote:Sorry to crash the thread, but is there any connection between ZPE theory and the putative-technology/physics that is supposedly used to, for example, make UFOs levitate (that is, by effectively making their mass approach zero)?I'm curious. Thanks.

I am not sure what you are referring to but there has been a fellow by name Victor Schauberger that supposedly built functioning models of flying saucers during the times of World War 2. The best explanations on their design that I could find are on Frank Germanos website flying disc

You can find more about Schauberger on Naudins website that has been ealier quoted by eric_b under implosion technology. I read all of Callum Coats books in the past but could not find useful plans upon which I could have based a replica upon.

Albente: I have acquaintences who believe in UFOs although I myself am agnostic. While they were explaining UFO behavior to me such as:

a. the ability to travel to earth from a distant solar system almost instantaneously,

b. the ability to hover silently in our atmosphere, and

c. the ability to "turn on a dime" at high speeds, making even L-shaped turns being no worse for wear,

I thought, well, this could all be very possible in the real world provided that the value for "m", that is, the mass of the space ship, could be made to approach zero.

Crazy speculation time, but if there was a community that closely held the details of a grand unification theory which, in turn, allowed their engineers to reduce the gravitational or inertial effects on objects of mass, that would help explain some of the more mysterious UFO sightings, whether of earth-origin or not.

Also, by pure coincidence, on Coast to Coast AM radio several weeks ago, there was a guest - I think his name was Hutchison (creator of the eponymous Hutchison Effect??) who gave an account of his actual lab work and real-world observations consistent with my own earlier conjecturing.

I don't know enough of the physics of either the "antigravity" or "zero point energy" to even guess whether they're related, and I certainly cannot take any proponent's word at face value either.

But it all has me wondering, since mass-sightings still do happen, where the UFOs will demonstrate the above-stated extra-physical properties, then maybe the above conjecturing is also true ??

Thanks for the link regarding the *Newtonian* flying disk device, btw.

Zentric, don't mix up Schauberger with one of those UFO-nerds! He was very down to earth and working on various, rather unconventional power generating devices. No reference ever from his side towards any esoteric beliefs.

I for myself stay as far away from anything that contains the word UFO due to reasons of credibility. I am open to be convinced otherwise, once I have a personal encounter with some aliens.

Motto: stay pragmatic!

albente wrote:Zentric, don't mix up Schauberger with one of those UFO-nerds! He was very down to earth and working on various, rather unconventional power generating devices. No reference ever from his side towards any esoteric beliefs.

I for myself stay as far away from anything that contains the word UFO due to reasons of credibility. I am open to be convinced otherwise, once I have a personal encounter with some aliens.

Motto: stay pragmatic!

Albente, your view seems at once both pragmatic, and provincial. Let me state what the term 'agnostic' means to me, where I earlier used that term to define my feelings about UFOs. It mostly means, "I don't really care enough about the subject for it to make any difference." In other words, being agnostic allows me to examine things and form opinions based on merit, not prejudice.

In your case, however, you shy away from the label "UFO", as if it meant , by definition, "nutty" as opposed to simply "unidentified". This, I feel, leaves you at a cognitive disadvantage. Take yourself, for example, trying to warn the man on the street about peak oil and the impending economic and political crisis. For his and everyone's sake, you wish that he be open to what you're telling him. Otherwise, you are forced to dismiss the guy as culturally brainwashed. It's a pity how that's going and coming around!

As for your upcoming personal encounter with the aliens, my advice is DON'T SHOW FEAR!! Thanks, man, I'll definitely take another look at Schauberger.

Zentric wrote: Take yourself, for example, trying to warn the man on the street about peak oil and the impending economic and political crisis.

This is not the case. I do not discuss Peak Oil with anyone since I regard it as an excercise in futility.

In regards to alien encounters it would be even worse (given I have had some in the first place) since there is zero acceptance outside the small circle of conisseurs of the subject.

However, I did not mean to make fun of you and your collegues, sorry if my comment went down the wrong tube.

albente wrote:In regards to alien encounters it would be even worse (given I have had some in the first place) since there is zero acceptance outside the small circle of conisseurs of the subject.

I have seen polls that show 60% to 70% of Americans believe there is inteligent life somewhere in the universe. Also somewhere around 30% believe UFOs have visited the earth from other planets (lucky if 1% believed in a Peak Oil die off). Presidents Ford, Carter, and Reagan all believed in UFOs. Belief in UFOs is hardly limited to a small circle of conisseurs. You are not alone if you believe in UFOs and aliens. Just look at this thread. It is about ZPE not UFOs but aliens and UFOs were brought up because it is widely believed UFOs are powered by ZPE. Well I can tell you one thing if UFOs do exist they aren't OIL burners.

Belief in UFOs and inteligent life is very uplifting because it means other civilizations have gone through what we are about to go through. They survived their peak oil crisis somehow and if they can do it we do it too.

I’ve got a big interest in UFOs, it’s a very interesting subject, but after reading god knows how many books I remain unconvinced. There’s certainly some interesting case: Rendlesham Forest/Roswell, but even there a lot of the evidence is anecdotal. Most photos of UFOs are extremely dubious to say the least. If someone can produce one, good, clear motion picture film of one with recognisable features I’ll be convinced. Photos of entities would be even better, but none really exist, you always get artists impressions.

Having worked for many years in some pretty difficult shift hours jobs and having to travel at night, also I prefer to drive at night because the journey anywhere is so much easier I have never, ever, seen anything that looks remotely suspicious. That’s purely anecdotal of course.

It’s highly likely that there is certain secret government aviation testing going on – such as the TRA9 often confused for flying triangles, it’s also highly likely that things do remain unexplained.

If you read the books and join the dots, it seems if there is aliens is a protection racket, coupled with some hybrid testing, but there’s certain conditions attached to it. The bottom line is the aliens don’t want human beings out in space creating trouble, so ZPE/AG is out of bounds. And why is it always the US government that has the kit? lol And in all these stories the government remain in firm control, yet they can't even prevent political scandals and NHS mis-management.

However, I think a more down to earth explanation is likely and I remain a sceptic.

For a technical understanding of Zero Point energy and it's potential in the real world....

Zero Point

If we have to rely on "alleged" UFO tech then we are in real trouble...

Regarding UFO claims.. I probably believed more than I should, for a time, until I realized how claims often had no second source to back it up. Take a famous case, Bob Lazar, the guy that claimed that UFO's powered by element 115 were stored at Area 51. Never was a second source for that story, and anyone with some common sense and physics knowledge would realize he isnt a real scientist (at least in the field of nuclear physics). Claims he went to schools with no record of his attendance, sure they could wipe the records, but what about yearbooks printed at the time. The Gravity A & B wave junk. Gravity A is clearly the strong nuclear force, so why doesnt he call it that?? Just one example of stuff that doesnt stand up.

Anyways, back to ZPE

Evidence of these from UFO lore is scant at best. People you claim to develop tech of this sort "from scratch" I tend to be a bit suspicious of. even 200 mpg carbeurators back in 1970 is more believable than a working ZPE.

I am of the belief now that if the government/bit corporations is/are going to spring some new cheap/free energy tech time is beginning to run out. If you have the stuff, why risk unnecessary upheavels that chronic energy shortages could create.