Peak Oil News and Message Boards

I don't post these news articles related to energy because I think they're going to save the world. I post them because they're news stories at large. I like to make comments about them.

But even if I post an energy-related news piece from a peer-reviewed science journal, I personally get attacked for it. That sucks. The doomers do their very best to make sure that no else reads or gives these positive-spin news stories any attention whatsoever. They don't want an energy discussion to take place on an energy discussion board unless these articles pass doomer quality assurance: anything that spells the end of civilization is fine, just don't post anything that might run contrary to that belief.

Fact is, doomers don't want to hear about ANY energy innovation at all and they don't want anyone else to hear about them or discuss them either - even though sci/tech is the primary way human beings deal with problems. So every thread about energy science or energy innovation gets jammed up with really dumbass doomer objections - every single time. And the primary way to jam up a thread is to use the kind of sarcasm one might find at a middle-school lunch table - really stupid stuff.

And people wonder "why this forum died"? Because it's not interesting folks. I've read Richard Heinberg cautioning people to read TheOilDrum but to avoid PO.com and LATOC because of all the childish nonsense on them. He's right.

eXpat wrote:

We haven’t seen a single panel of this magic substance which will be able to handle all the requirements that Brusaw has laid out for it.

All it needs is some research grants. They could start out by driving their car over a solar calculator.

Keith_McClary wrote:They could start out by driving their car over a solar calculator.

See what I mean? Really stupid brain farts, every single time.

This is how groupthink works, folks.

Carlhole wrote:And people wonder "why this forum died"? Because it's not interesting folks. I've read Richard Heinberg cautioning people to read TheOilDrum but to avoid PO.com and LATOC because of all the childish nonsense on them. He's right.

Perheps Heinberg have seen that *you* are posting here in addition to shortonsense, OF2 and few religious zealots.

You are about as good as Savinar is but you just have different inclinations.

Savinar is parroting Hollywood styled doom utopia and you are parroting technotopia instead.

Even the most hardcore doomer has to admit, this is a pretty cool concept : http://www.wimp.com/solarhighways/

Having solar panels embedded in roads powering cars is a cool idea if you have unlimited money, but I don't see this as being practical anytime soon.

That was SWMBOs reaction to this and I have to agree with her.
I supervise road construction and paving for a living. All they have to do to change my mind is put a hundred foot section into service in an interstate highway with twenty thousand ADT (average daily traffic) for a year in an area where snow plowing occurs regularly and record the KWHs produced, the repair costs and the friction numbers when wet or snow covered. Should be a piece of cake. SWMBO wants to know how far her forty foot school bus will slide across a glass highway covered with snow or rain water.

Don't solar powered "cars" basically have to be highly aerodynamic recumbent trikes with their entire footprint devoted to solar panels to even work?" how is a highway system made of solar panels actually going to manage to move anything that drives on it?

vtsnowedin wrote::lol: That was SWMBOs reaction to this and I have to agree with her.
I supervise road construction and paving for a living. All they have to do to change my mind is put a hundred foot section into service in an interstate highway with twenty thousand ADT (average daily traffic) for a year in an area where snow plowing occurs regularly and record the KWHs produced, the repair costs and the friction numbers when wet or snow covered. Should be a piece of cake. SWMBO wants to know how far her forty foot school bus will slide across a glass highway covered with snow or rain water.

Certainly seems in our region, vt, that the better answer would be a solar roof to prevent most of the snow and ice fall from hitting the pavement and the ability to tilt panels and shake snow off.

Ultimately, another BAU fairy tale.

The Practician wrote:Don't solar powered "cars" basically have to be highly aerodynamic recumbent trikes with their entire footprint devoted to solar panels to even work?" how is a highway system made of solar panels actually going to manage to move anything that drives on it?

That's where Nikola Tesla tech comes in - beam it to the cars - or a bumper cars scenario with a metal strip in the lane aligned with a metal strip on the bottom of the car.

basil_hayden wrote:

The Practician wrote:Don't solar powered "cars" basically have to be highly aerodynamic recumbent trikes with their entire footprint devoted to solar panels to even work?" how is a highway system made of solar panels actually going to manage to move anything that drives on it?

That's where Nikola Tesla tech comes in - beam it to the cars - or a bumper cars scenario with a metal strip in the lane aligned with a metal strip on the bottom of the car.

you're missing the point. Direct solar powered, no matter how the electricity is transferred from the road to the cars, is not going to be able to power any sort of highway traffic. especially at night.

The Practician wrote:

basil_hayden wrote:

The Practician wrote:Don't solar powered "cars" basically have to be highly aerodynamic recumbent trikes with their entire footprint devoted to solar panels to even work?" how is a highway system made of solar panels actually going to manage to move anything that drives on it?

That's where Nikola Tesla tech comes in - beam it to the cars - or a bumper cars scenario with a metal strip in the lane aligned with a metal strip on the bottom of the car.

you're missing the point. Direct solar powered, no matter how the electricity is transferred from the road to the cars, is not going to be able to power any sort of highway traffic. especially at night.

Never heard of a battery?

1HP is about 3/4kw. So a 10HP car, about what you need minimum to run even a small car at very moderate speed, would need 7.5kW.

I have a couple of solar panels, they are about 3 square feet for 55watts. So I would need about 136 panels or 409 square feet of solar panel.

It would require a 10x fold improvement in solar panels to make this even moderately feasible.

I also have a good sized battery bank, about 250AH. This is made up of 4 six volt batteries of about 60 pounds each. I can run that down to about half so I really have about 125AH available. 125AH at 12VDC is 1,5kW. So to run this 7.5kw car I need about 1,200 pounds of battery.

I know better batteries are coming but again we are looking at a 10x improvement in current technology.

And these are considering new conditions, stuff deteriorates with time.

Not to mention all the maintenance issues, and being in maintenance all my life, fat chance.

OK, the roadway idea is stupid. The idea of say, roofing over all railways with solar panels, less stupid. Build the panels above the railways wherever there's enough sunlight. Since the panels are already at an angle, the vibration of the trains provides at least part of self-cleaning system. The electricity itself could be used to run the trains. If there's any power left over, sell it to the utility companies.

It's not perfect. It won't get us out of the problems caused by oil depletion, but every little bit is going to help.

pstarr wrote:

ian807 wrote:OK, the roadway idea is stupid. The idea of say, roofing over all railways with solar panels, less stupid.

Actually equally stupid. The cost to build a weight-bearing structure over a rail line would be prohibitive. It would have to withstand snow, winds (even strong gusts) and wide enough to allow for rail work and access to trains. Figure $100,000/100ft. That would be $5 million/mile, $1 billion 200 miles. Cost doesn't include the PV, controllers, electrification of rail line and engines.

Yup. Math sucks don't it!

Actually some people are doing some interesting things with electric propulsion for boats and yachts. There electricity is a more viable option because you are generally only sailing into or out of a berth and then under sail.

There is a very long discussion about the topic here. I think this would be of interest to anyone considering electric transport.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14 ... 64021.html

That the idea of ​​the roof and solar panels, less stupid all railway. Build more railways, as long as there is enough sun panels. As the panel is a point of view, the vibration of the train provides a self-cleaning at least part of the system.

I was referring to batteries on the sides of the roadways not in the cars for the record, however the entire idea is half baked.

ian807 wrote:OK, the roadway idea is stupid. The idea of say, roofing over all railways with solar panels, less stupid.

Roofing over rail is not a bad idea. Though I think positioning panels next to the train tracks and at an angle would be a better idea.

Regarding roads, what I think is possible:
* Roadways represent strips of land that is already zoned for government to build on.
* Panels could easily be positioned vertically or at an angle by highways.
* Solar panels could be used to supplement the grid.

What is questionable:
* That we have the money to build more infrastructure.
* Solar panels have trouble producing low cost power.
* It over-complicates things to put them in a road.