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Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 23:23:33
by seahorse
There is a product called Nansulate, which is a type of paint, that supposedly will reduce air or heating bills from 20%-40%. Now, I know if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. However, over on the oildrum, a poster said he tried it and it works (posted under a natural gas thread). At any rate, I'm interested to hear if anyone else has any experience with it or has heard anything about it.

Here's the company website (it is a publicly traded company, penny stock).

Industrial Nanotech Inc

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 23:26:58
by Ayoob
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Snake Oil.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2008, 23:56:57
by seahorse
Yes, most probably. But for the guy's comments over at the Oildrum I would not be asking.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2008, 00:05:58
by Don35
It's possible it is a radiant barrier. There is a paint that has metal in it that reflects heat. I've read about radiant barriers (aka Nasa Wrap), and installed sheets of it in my attic. I haven't looked at this Nansulate.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2008, 00:27:27
by Ayoob
seahorse wrote:Yes, most probably. But for the guy's comments over at the Oildrum I would not be asking.

Copy that. Nevertheless, this is time to play defensive ball.

There are enough "gimme" investments these days that snake oil should not be a consideration. There are too many easy ways to save money or make money.

A great deal of investment success lies in not losing your money.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2008, 02:49:34
by PopeGideon
2 types of heat loss through walls.

1. Conductive.

2. Radiation that hits the wall, then 1.

Paint could theoretically limit 2 by reflecting IR back into room. Even if it was 100% effective, which is unlikely, you're still not talking 20%, IMO.

Conductive loss through wall is the main concern. Air molecules loss energy to paint, then to sheet rock, then to insulation, then to outside.

No paint is going to stop more than 1% conduction.

So the only question is, how much IR hits your walls and could be prevented from heating the wall, which then convects to the outside?

I'd guess not too much. Certainly 40% is a pipe dream.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2008, 08:51:35
by RdSnt
As well, the effectiveness of any paint-on "sealer" is only as good as the substrate it is applied to.

How's the integrity of your vapour barrier, are the electrical outlets bagged, have the seams in the vapour barrier been sealed, are corners tight?
If the wind whistling through your kitchen counter electric outlets is ruffling your hair, paint isn't going to help you.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2008, 20:59:13
by Tanada
This sounds like the product I asked about a couple years ago...

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic7884.html

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sat 10 May 2008, 01:08:40
by sandshark
All, I believe it's legit. I was also curious, and ordered some. I did a controlled experiment of my own. Not overly scientific, but still it was controlled.

Here's what I did:
One metal plate treated with Nansulate (3 coats), one uncoated.
I used an equidistant stand for both metal plates, above the same candle flame.
Placed one robust size droplet of water on the plate and waited until the heat had evaporated almost all of the drop.
Untreated plate took 85 seconds.
Treated plate took approx. 130 seconds.
I repeated the experiment, as I know the water droplets could have varied a bit in size, etc. SAME RESULT (give or take a few seconds).

Read the testimonials on the website, and watch the video. I was a bit skeptical, but my experiment had very similar results to what you'll see in the video on the website. I'm no bullshyter, I assure you.

Hence, I added/bought shares of this company. Sales are growing quite nicely (although still operating at a loss).

They also just launched an epoxy version, which is more suited to industry and OEM processes. Full lab testing data will be posted to their website this month (May 2008). link

Feel free to respond. I'm "somewhat" knowledgeable about this company and product(s). I can also direct you to a better source of information if anyone is curious. FYI, PlaceMakers retail chain in New Zealand (similar to their version of home depot) is offering Nansulate now also. I verified this myself via PlaceMakers corporate office buyer who gave me the product names and SKU #.

NOTE: I've followed this company for a couple of years now, and trust me... myself and others have had our skeptical/scam glasses on. That's part of why I ordered some and tried it for myself. It works. Just also had my wooden beam ceilings coated as well, since the roof above doesn't have a space below it for any insulation.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sat 10 May 2008, 01:38:00
by sandshark
Here are two Nansulate demonstration videos:

Nansulate Regular (better for homes, as insulation): link

Nansulate EPX (epoxy version, better for industry due to quick cure time and ability to be applied to any thickness; hence R value forthcoming. K value is .027) link

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Mon 12 May 2008, 23:22:55
by The_Virginian
It's a PINK SHEETS company. RUN, don't walk away. [smilie=new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif] [smilie=evil5.gif]

YOU READ IT ON THE OIL DRUM???

Here's a snipit from 2007:
"I deleted one comment. The reason I deleted it was that it looked like spam to me. (New poster, and the only comment he ever posted was a plug for a specific product, complete with link to commercial web site.)

We've decided to be a little more strict about commercial posts. We're getting a lot more traffic these days, which makes us more attractive to spammers...."

Leanan on October 28, 2007

ALSO:
"I reviewed the performance of a "nanotech" thermal coating used for an industrial application. While it worked well at reducing radiant heat losses (and would also probably work well at reducing radiant heat gains), it's actual conductive R-value was vastly worse than advertised. Had to resort back to good-old foam. Buyers beware."
drwater on October 28, 2007

This scam has been played before on the Oil Drum!

AND:
"I tried a product marketed as a Radiant Barrier spray. You apply directly to the underside of the roof decking in the attic. Application is pretty simple with an airless paint sprayer. My results were dissapointing...."
markegg on October 28, 2007

I find it interesting that the big defender of this product is a new poster as well!

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Tue 13 May 2008, 03:52:14
by TheDude
Oh yeah, caveat emptor big time. But if you're going to appeal to authority ZDNet favorably review it: Don’t insulate , Nansulate , says Florida cleantech company. Lots of authentic looking hits on both the web and Google News. They've been approved for use in the EU. It looks pretty bona fide.
Wonder if you could spray it on your skin during winter and walk around in the raw? Image

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sat 22 Nov 2008, 12:13:10
by KnoxMountain
For those that are curious if the Nasulate Insulation Product is for real we can say that, Yes, it is. We tried it, along with out clients, and hense are now the Massachusetts and New Hampshire Distributor of all Nasulate Products. For further information, regarding the technical aspect of HOW this product works, please go to www.nansulate.com or email us at eastcoastnano.com, and we will be happy to supply you with the answers to any questions you may have.

Thank You
Knox Mountain Technologies, Inc
Burlington, Massachusetts

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sat 22 Nov 2008, 12:29:09
by Quinny
I'd love it to be true, but this testimonial is from a new poster with no track record on the site.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sat 22 Nov 2008, 20:41:00
by WisJim
A friend of mine ordered a gallon of it in early October, and I haven't had time to ask him about it yet--he doesn't live real close, and we both are busy enough that we don't see each other often. He is hoping to use it to insulate some solar hot air collectors, and he is a meticulous kind of guy with access to enough monitoring equipment that he will be able to figure out if it really works or not, if he has the time. I'll have to email him and see what he is doing with it, if he has gotten his gallon yet. It seems a little much to accept at face value to both of us.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sun 23 Nov 2008, 00:46:35
by kmann
It's unlikely that this does anything usefull. I noticed that the two people endorsing the product are one and two posters. That makes me suspicous. More so the physics. If it's a radiant heat barrier it will be more effective at higher heat gradients, not what a house is usually exposed to. I didn't bother reading the website -won't waste my time - so I don't know what thier claims are. And I surely won't waste my money on either the product or the stock.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Sun 23 Nov 2008, 03:36:50
by skeptik
A thin layer of paint is never going to deal with conductive heat loss, and once you've draft proofed, that's the major problem. Ideally you need a thick layer of nothing, literally. Hard vacuum.

As that's not so practical a thick layer of air immobilised by as little solid stuff as possible. Air is a good insulator, but also a good convector of heat, which is why it has to be immobilised. Aerogel is the best there is, but that's currently infeasibly expensive for home insulation.

I think youd be better off covering your walls with thick woven wall hangings, throw rugs, patchwork, tapestries and glassed in artwork (works like double glazing) than painting it with nansulate. Floor to ceiling bookshelves filled with books also work well.

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Nov 2008, 07:33:35
by Tanada
My problem with the product is purely in the expense region. If it works as advertized it would be wonderful for my old masonary house with poor insulation. Despite the fact that almost all of my rooms are small by modern standards I would need two gallons per bedroom just to do the ceiling and two exterior walls!

That racks up to $133.00 plus shipping to do ONE room in my house! That might be a lot cheaper than putting up stud walls and insulating the traditional way, but unless I know, and I mean KNOW!!!! that the product works I am not going to dump money down that hole. If it works it would be well worth it to do a couple rooms at a time with the 5 gallon bucket option, but I can't afford to lose the money if it turns out to just be expensive paint that does nothing for my energy bills.

So one of ya'all with more money than I have do the test and give us unbiased results! (Pretty please.....)

Re: Is this product, Nansulate, legit?

Unread postPosted: Wed 26 Nov 2008, 15:20:38
by emergingclarity
There are also 2 other products:
1. Insuladd - ceramic spheres filled with inert gas
2. Hy-Tech - ceramic spheres with vacuum.

These supposedly work the same way, generally.

Both part of NASA spinoff program (I looked it up, #1 above in 2003; then #2 in 2007), but NASA spinoff program is not a silver bullet. If they look at or tweak anything then its a spinoff.
One of the two sites have thermal imaging presenting some interesting images of painted/unpainted areas...painted area is lower temp on external-facing walls (doesn't mention if paint is wet or not when the thermograph was conducted). Not much of a difference but at $14.96 per gallon for Hy-Tech's additive (package of ceramic spheres that you add to premium paint and mix) I may try to run my own test.