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Limitless supplies of abiotic methane exist on other planets in our solar system- such as Jupiter or Saturn. By harvesting these energy resources from space we could have limitless energy on Earth.

Even with the tremendous time lags involved in exploiting this resource this is a solution that could work. If we ran continuous "tanker" ships to & from these planets there would always be some tankers arriving & some tankers departing Earth. These tankers could drop their frozen methane cargo into low Earth orbit & then we could extract the methane from the Earth's atmosphere at our leisure.

There is so much abiotic methane on Jupiter and Saturn we could exhaust the Earth's supply of free oxygen before we would run out of methane energy. With cable elevators and other new technologies (see August's edition of Scientific American) we could be on a path to achieve these goals.

I'm open to feedback!
Thanks!

Are you serious!? How long does it take to get to jupiter and back? And how do these tankers re enter the atmosphere without exploding?

Repent wrote:Limitless supplies of abiotic methane exist on other planets in our solar system- such as Jupiter or Saturn. By harvesting these energy resources from space we could have limitless energy on Earth.

There is so much abiotic methane on Jupiter and Saturn we could exhaust the Earth's supply of free oxygen before we would run out of methane energy. With cable elevators and other new technologies (see August's edition of Scientific American) we could be on a path to achieve these goals.

I'm open to feedback!
Thanks!

Lol. You sound like somebody from the 1950's or something. Try and think about how you're going to build and power a giant fleet of spaceships to economically transport methane from jupiter.

How will you extract methane from Jupiter without being sucked into its vast gravity field? Apart from anything else i don't think you can go anywhere near Jupiter and expect to escape the gravity well. It's just too damn big.

Nice troll anyway.

Its good to have new energy ideas but I think we should stick with coal, wind, nuclear energy.

Repent wrote:These tankers could drop their frozen methane cargo into low Earth orbit & then we could extract the methane from the Earth's atmosphere at our leisure.

Methane being a greenhouse gas, this would have added the advantage of keeping us northerners warm after the oil runs out.

Even better, why not import hydrogen from the Sun?

All we need is warp drive! Then the tankers could make the trip in a few minutes. How much energy does it take to travel at 125 x C?

Nah warpdrive.. let's just construct a stargate! We could build a wormhole, we just need some medium sized blackhole for serious experiments. There is one just few hundreds ly away, so let's tow it here!

Before we even think about going to Jupiter lets try extracting the methane hydrates on the sea beds that we already have.

It is estimated that the total endowment of methane hydrates on the earth is equal to the entire amount of other fossil fuels already consumed and remaining.

The problem is that extracting is extremely dangerous, extremely expensive and there is a huge risk involved beacause methane is such a bad greenhouse gas. The Japanese are trying to develop tech to do it but it is still in the very early stages I believe.

My initial article was serious. Although some of the objections listed as replies are real challenges, we don't need to talk science-fiction about space resource possibilities.

We don't need "warp drive" or other nonsense ideas to cloud real possibilities. There is no air resistance in space once an object is in motion it stays in motion no matter how far the journey. You get space tankers to Jupiter the same way we get satellites to Jupiter. You have a minimal amount of thrust & use planetary fly-by assists to accelerate / decelerate further.

A space tanker around Jupiter could extract the methane while in low orbit through a retractable pipe of sufficient length to reach down into the abundant deposits & pump them up.

No science-fiction required. All known existing technologies. The only factor is cost. If all hydrocarbons are completely exhausted the price to harvest these resources will come into the range of affordablility.

You can't be serious!

How much energy (rocket fuel) would it take to launch from a low Earth orbit (I'll give you a head start instead of launching from Earth) go to Jupiter and return with lets say 100 tons (the mass of a small jet airliner) of methane?

The cost in terms of energy for one round trip to Jupiter would be enormous. We haven't even sent a man to Mars yet (& never will with peak oil).

As to the space probes, think about how small and light weight they are. I am pretty sure none of the interplanetary probes have ever made a round trip back to Earth. Too much energy!

Repent wrote:My initial article was serious. Although some of the objections listed as replies are real challenges, we don't need to talk science-fiction about space resource possibilities.

We don't need "warp drive" or other nonsense ideas to cloud real possibilities. There is no air resistance in space once an object is in motion it stays in motion no matter how far the journey. You get space tankers to Jupiter the same way we get satellites to Jupiter. You have a minimal amount of thrust & use planetary fly-by assists to accelerate / decelerate further.

A space tanker around Jupiter could extract the methane while in low orbit through a retractable pipe of sufficient length to reach down into the abundant deposits & pump them up.

Even if your tankers weighed nothing, you would still have to lift the methane cargo out of Jupiter's gravity and propell it towards some other planet to take advantage of the fly-by assist. And then you would have to decelerate it to deliver it to the Earth's surface.

Your idea to dump the methane into the atmosphere and then

extract the methane from the Earth's atmosphere at our leisure

is impractical - there are already vast amounts of methane in the atmosphere thanks to swamps, volcanos and bovine burps. It is only 2 parts per million but the mass of the atmosphere is 5x10^15 tonnes.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/LouiseLiu.shtml

That works out to 10 billion tonnes of methane in the atmosphere.

This is of no use as a fuel since it would require a large amount of energy to extract methane in such small concentrations from the air.

And I suspect your

retractable pipe of sufficient length

would have to weigh as much as a small planet when scaled up to Jovian dimensions:

http://www.spaceelevator.com/

but I'll leave the math to you.

criticism, criticism, criticism- isn't anyone out there even remotely interested in harvesting space resources? Sure there are problems, but once all hydrocarbons on Earth are totally exhaused we will have to turn to space for supplies. Doesn't matter if its 50, 100, or 400 years from now- sooner or later these Planetary resources are going to come of value.

To say I have silly ideas reread your own posts? Import hydrogen from the sun- then we would have all the same problems with that hydrogen that we are have with the hydrogen we extract from the Earth. "Warp drive" and other nonsense shown here.

A previous post said Extracting methane from Jupiter would be limited to a 100 ton extraction. Why? Methane in a frozen state in the vacuum of space could be transported externally to the space vessel. It could be like a space train- 200 or more 100 ton extractions hooked up in sequence- external to the space vessel.

And like the train it could use part of the methane it extracts from Jupiter as fuel to power the large energy requirements. Like the trains of yester-year the first train "car" would always be a load of coal to power the train engine- a space train could be the same the first "car" would provide the energy for the spaceship to tow the rest of the load. With say the second "car" of frozen oxygen (also extracted from Jupiter) to provide the catalyst for the methane.

Solutions will present themselves; whether we think of them or not. Its more a question of time & money.

How about we focus on getting to the moon or Mars again with more then a rinky dink rover first before we decide to send the Valdez off to Jupiter.

At the very least the people responding to my article should admit that even though we are approaching peak oil on Earth, Limitless supplies of hydrocarbons exist elsewhere!

Even if problems like transportation & extraction technology are left as issues of contention- hydrocarbons will never truly be "totally" exhausted so long as we have the capacity to go look for them in space.

Scoffers warned-

This thread is the most amusing I have ever seen on this board! Much appreciated.

Repent wrote:To say I have silly ideas reread your own posts? Import hydrogen from the sun- then we would have all the same problems with that hydrogen that we are have with the hydrogen we extract from the Earth.

OK, I edited my post to change "ridiculous" to "impractical".

I have no idea what you mean by "hydrogen we extract from the Earth".

Repent wrote:Solutions will present themselves; whether we think of them or not. Its more a question of time & money.

Money will not buy us happiness or an exemption to the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

And we all know where time will get us. (Strangely, I couldn't find a "dead" Emoticon).

Remember...

I'm open to feedback!
Thanks!

There is nothing wrong with dreaming up ideas. Just don't get pissed when the "feedback" is not what you wanted to hear. It would be easier to colonize Mars than to solve your space tanker problem. Right now it is just science fiction.

I agree that there are almost limitless supplies of hydrocarbons elsewhere in the universe. The Liquid Natural Gas oceans of Titan come to mind.....
I also agree that the hurdles needed to be crossed to acquire said hydrocarbons are rather high. Insurmountable? Probably not, given the time. Do we have the time? Doubtful...unfortunately.

Could you imagine the time required for that first round trip to Jupiter? I think Cassini left for Saturn in 1999 and is just now arriving...so lets just say 5 years there and then 5 back? Well the acceleration is going to be a bit sluggish on the way back, so lets just say 7 to come back. 12 years round trip.

Forget how much time society has to adapt for the gathering of the new fuels....lets talk about the individuals involved in this....."Hey Joe, here's your new job, and you're gonna be gone for 12 years on a ship.....in deep space..." Sure there will be takers, but how many will want to step up time and again...cuz you aren't going to get many cruises in before it's time to retire.....I guess theres always the draft for the space tanker regiment....

Oh, did I forget to mention that those to and back figures (remember 5 and 7 years respectively?) were using a 'perfect' launch window where the travel is relatively 'direct'.....in a cosmic sort of way.....what about those launches where you have to go around your proverbial butt to get to your elbow?....yikes...."Hey Joe, did I mention that although your leaving at 21 years of age, you'll return just about time to pick up your first Social Security check......"

Of course all numbers are approximate and your mileage may vary.

I agree that there are almost limitless supplies of hydrocarbons elsewhere in the universe. The Liquid Natural Gas oceans of Titan come to mind.....
I also agree that the hurdles needed to be crossed to acquire said hydrocarbons are rather high. Insurmountable? Probably not, given the time. Do we have the time? Doubtful...unfortunately.

Could you imagine the time required for that first round trip to Jupiter? I think Cassini left for Saturn in 1999 and is just now arriving...so lets just say 5 years there and then 5 back? Well the acceleration is going to be a bit sluggish on the way back, so lets just say 7 to come back. 12 years round trip.

Forget how much time society has to adapt for the gathering of the new fuels....lets talk about the individuals involved in this....."Hey Joe, here's your new job, and you're gonna be gone for 12 years on a ship.....in deep space..." Sure there will be takers, but how many will want to step up time and again...cuz you aren't going to get many cruises in before it's time to retire.....I guess theres always the draft for the space tanker regiment....

Oh, did I forget to mention that those to and back figures (remember 5 and 7 years respectively?) were using a 'perfect' launch window where the travel is relatively 'direct'.....in a cosmic sort of way.....what about those launches where you have to go around your proverbial butt to get to your elbow?....yikes...."Hey Joe, did I mention that although your leaving at 21 years of age, you'll return just about time to pick up your first Social Security check......"

Of course all numbers are approximate and your mileage may vary.