[Sixstrings]

Stolen passports add questions to missing flight search
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-missing-flight-sends-search-teams-to-air-sea/

Stolen European passports on missing plane

MILAN (AP) — Foreign ministry officials in Rome and Vienna confirm that names of two nationals listed on the manifest of the missing Malaysian airlines flight match passports reported stolen in Thailand.

Italy's Foreign Ministry said Saturday that an Italian man whose name was listed as being aboard is traveling in Thailand and was not aboard the plane.

A foreign ministry functionary, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed Italian reports that Luigi Maraldi had reported his passport stolen last August.

Italian news agency ANSA says Maraldi called home after hearing reports that an Italian with his name was aboard the plane.

Austrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Martin Weiss confirmed that a name listed on the manifest matches an Austrian passport reported stolen two years ago in Thailand. Weiss would not confirm the identity.
http://news.yahoo.com/stolen-european-passports-missing-plane-150519884.html;_ylt=AwrBEiJtMxtTYW8AUjTQtDMD

Bit of a mystery here, what happened to that plane, and now the stolen passports.

[dolanbaker]

From another bulletin board.

May be related or just speculation.

''Feb 17th 2014 - An Etihad Boeing 777-300, registration A6-ETM performing flight EY-461 from Melbourne,VI (Australia) to Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), was enroute over the Indian Ocean west of Australia when the fire detectors in a lavatory in economy class triggered alarm. Smoke and flames were visible from a bin in the lavatory, cabin crew quickly extinguished and contained the small fire. About 2 hours later the fire detector of another lavatory in the economy class triggered alarm, again cabin crew needed to extinguish a small fire in the bin of that lavatory. The captain decided to divert the aircraft to Jakarta (Indonesia) where the aircraft landed safely, all passengers disembarked and were questioned by Indonesian police.

The aircraft continued the flight after about 4 hours on the ground with all passengers aboard and reached Abu Dhabi with a delay of 4:15 hours, however, not without three more fire incidents after which the captain ordered cabin crew to stop all cabin service and guard the lavatories instead until landing in Abu Dhabi.

The airline confirmed multiple disruptions on the flight prompting the diversion to Jakarta. No arrests have been made, about a dozen passengers were detained by UAE police after arrival in Abu Dhabi however for further interviews.

Passengers reported there were sirens and flashing red lights going on and odour of smoke was noticed throughout the aircraft, with smoke visibly coming from first one then another lavatory. Breakfast service was stopped while the aircraft diverted to Jakarta. Passengers were upset about the flight being continued without the arsonist being identified and removed from the flight. Gossip amongst passengers indicated a female had set the lavatories alight.

On Feb 20th 2014 the airline reported that the 12 detained passengers were all released again, as there was no conclusive evidence. There had been two fire incidents after takeoff resulting in the diversion to Jakarta, three more fire incidents occurred while en-route from Jakarta to Abu Dhabi.''

edit: a quick google produces this link amongst others http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-inc ... 32z8e.html

[Sixstrings]

''Feb 17th 2014 - An Etihad Boeing 777-300, registration A6-ETM performing flight EY-461 from Melbourne,VI (Australia) to Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), was enroute over the Indian Ocean west of Australia when the fire detectors in a lavatory in economy class triggered alarm. Smoke and flames were visible from a bin in the lavatory,

Edit: correction, the 787 is the dreamliner, and as everyone knows its had issues, including battery problems.

Elon Musk told them how to fix their batteries, he offered to do it for them. But Boeing rebuffed him. I never read any news about it after that, one would think they had it fixed.

777 has a good saftey record.

[ohanian]

If those passports have been reported stolen when how can they be used at the airport? As soon as those passports get scanned, it should come up as "STOLEN" and those person would be detained an charged with using a stolen passport.

[Outcast_Searcher]

So with all the horrendous amounts of money spent internationally "guarding airlines" and all the government involvement, security, etc. -- people with STOLEN passports still get on planes.

Just another example of how inept and basically useless large government programs tend to be.

Let me guess liberals, it's all Ronald Reagan's fault -- right? Big government programs HAVE to be the best thing since sliced bread, since you believe fervently in them, of course.

[EdwinSm]

Outcast, your statements were rather vague, but you seem to be blaming the American government for failure at the airport in KL (Kuala Lumpur). I am sure the Malaysian government would not be pleased to hear that

But I do agree that stolen passports should have been flagged, so this does look like a major security breach (unless security officers turned a blind eye because of the harsh treatment China inflicts on it non-Han minorities).

[Plantagenet]

If those passports have been reported stolen when how can they be used at the airport? As soon as those passports get scanned, it should come up as "STOLEN" and those person would be detained an charged with using a stolen passport.

Apparently the security in Malaysia is lax and they didn't do their due diligence on the passports.

[EdwinSm]

Another theory this time without the terrorist overtones:

The presence of two passengers with stolen passports is a breach of security but could relate to illegal migration.

When an Air India plane crashed in Mangalore in 2010 en route from Dubai, with the loss of 158 lives, as many 10 fraudulent passports were recovered.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26503141

[Surf]

In the US when you check in the airline attendant will ask to see your passport to:
A Verify you have one.
B To verify the name on the passport matches the name on the ticket.

airlines don't type in or scan the passport number in to verify it is valid. The Passport is simply used to verify the person claiming the ticket is who he says he is. After that you go through the security to verify you are not carrying anything illegal. then you walk to the gate. In the US the passport it only checked for validity when you arrive at your destination. It's the same for many countries I have visited.

It is not unusual for passports to not be checked for validity at the point of departure. Some countries however do check (Japan comes to mind).

the plane involved is a Boeing 777. There have only been two accidents involving it. One in San Francisco caused by pilot error, and one that involved ice in the fuel system (the fuel oil heat exchanger was redesigned to fix this). The 777 does not have Lithium ion batteries.

[Sixstrings]

Missile downed Malaysia Airlines jet? Follows near miss by North Korean rocket last week

TEL AVIV — Just eight days after a terrorist attack in the city of Kunming dubbed “China’s September 11th,” a Malaysia Airlines flight carrying mostly Chinese passengers disappeared over the South China Sea. While the international probe is in its early stages and questions are being raised about the prospect of terrorism, investigators would be wise to thoroughly examine the possibility of a missile attack in light of recent information about the global proliferation of such projectiles capable of downing civilian airliners.

Further, China has issued a series of warnings about North Korean missiles, including one that crossed paths with a Chinese airliner carrying 220 people just last week. On Friday, China complained to North Korea when one of its missiles came dangerously close to a civilian jet last Tuesday. The airplane had departed Tokyo’s Narita airport en route to the northeastern Chinese city of Shenyang.

One day earlier, South Korea’s defense ministry released a statement saying the Chinese civilian plane had “passed as the ballistic missile (from North Korea) was in the course of descending.” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told reporters, “On this issue, we have already contacted the North Korean side to convey our deep concern.” “If any country is to hold training or exercises, it should take measures in accordance with international practice to ensure the safety of civil [facilities] in relevant airspace and maritime space,” said Qin. Qin said the jet was flying over international waters at an altitude of 10,000 meters, or 32,800 feet.

“The rocket could have hit the plane on its way down,” he said. “North Korea had not given any warning. It was an unexpected and immoral act that goes against international norms.” One week earlier, North Korea reportedly test-fired two short range missiles into the sea. The Malaysian Airlines flight reportedly lost contact with air traffic controllers some 2 hours after departing Kuala Lumpur, when the plane was about one third of the way into the trip. Vietnamese searchers said they found possible aircraft debris, including part of a door, that could be from the missing flight. Those fragments were reportedly located about 65 miles south-southwest of Vietnam’s Tho Chu island. The distance from that area to North Korea is about 2,600 miles.

North Korean missile capabilities are said to include the Musadan missile, with a range of about 2,485 miles; the 4,000-mile range Taepodong-2; and a claimed long-range UNHA-3 missile. None of those missiles were reportedly tested in public. In January, former CIA Director David Petraeus warned of a “nightmare” scenario in which the proliferation of missiles could provide terrorists the ability to shoot down passenger airplanes. The largest terrorist looting of Man-Portable-Air-Defense-Systems, or MANPADS reportedly took place immediately after the U.S.-NATO military campaign that helped to end Moammar Gadhafi’s rule in Libya.

Gadhafi had hoarded Africa’s biggest known reserve of MANPADS, with his stock said to number between 15,000 and 20,000. Many of the missiles were stolen by militias fighting in Libya, including those backed by the U.S. their anti-Gadhafi efforts. Last week there were unverified claims some MANPADS went missing in Ukraine.
http://kleinonline.wnd.com/2014/03/09/missile-downed-malaysian-plane-follows-recent-warning-of-nightmare-threat-airliners/

Missing Malaysian jet may have disintegrated in mid-air: source

"The fact that we are unable to find any debris so far appears to indicate that the aircraft is likely to have disintegrated at around 35,000 feet," a source involved in the investigations in Malaysia told Reuters.

http://news.yahoo.com/missing-malaysian-jet-may-disintegrated-mid-air-source-002831393--sector.html;_ylt=AnOUzIt0SIkezqn1PpdVMZfQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBsZmpob2F1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM3BHNlYwNzcg--

* Radar shows jet may have turned back
* Flight lost contact hour after takeoff, no distress signal or sign of bad weather
* Two passengers, possibly more, were travelling under false identities
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/08/malaysia-airlines-plane-missing_n_4924974.html#liveblog

[ralfy]

So with all the horrendous amounts of money spent internationally "guarding airlines" and all the government involvement, security, etc. -- people with STOLEN passports still get on planes.

Just another example of how inept and basically useless large government programs tend to be.

Let me guess liberals, it's all Ronald Reagan's fault -- right? Big government programs HAVE to be the best thing since sliced bread, since you believe fervently in them, of course.

Big Government is created to meet the needs of Big Business.

[Sixstrings]

Iranian connection?

Mysterious Iranian "Mr. Ali" Purchased Tickets For "Stolen Passport" Passengers; Paid Cash

While the mystery builds over the still officially unexplained disappearance of Malaysian flight MH370, or just who the two passengers with "stolen" passports may have been although we expect a revelation on this issue shortly, the FT has added yet another twist to what is sure to be a conspiracy thriller for weeks to come: the paper reports that the Thai travel agent who booked the tickets for the men in question said that she had been asked to arrange the travel by an Iranian contact. Adding to the confusion is the revelation that originally the mysterious Iranian, known only as Mr. Ali, tried to reserve seats for the two men on separate flights not to China, but to Europe, one on a Qatar Airways flight, and the other on Etihad. And the punchline: a "friend" of Mr. Ali's paid for the tickets in cash.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-10/mysterious-iranian-mr-ali-purchased-tickets-stolen-passport-passengers-paid-cash

Missing plane similar to Lockerbie bomb tragedy: official

Investigators suspect a vanished Malaysian airliner may have been blown out of the sky — just like the jumbo jet that rained deadly wreckage onto Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988.
http://nypost.com/2014/03/10/missing-airplane-likely-disintegrated-investigator/

NUCLEAR TEST EXPERTS TO CHECK IF PLANE EXPLODED

UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The head of the organization that monitors the nuclear test ban treaty said Monday he has asked its experts to see if they detected an explosion at high altitude of the missing Malaysian Airlines plane.

Lassina Zerbo, executive director of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organization told a news conference that the CTBTO uses "infrasound" - or infrasonic sensors - to monitor the earth mainly for atmospheric nuclear explosions.

...

Zerbo said infrasound would be the best technology to check for an explosion on the missing plane if there was a monitoring station nearby, "or the explosion is at a level or at an amplitude that it could be detected."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_UNITED_NATIONS_MISSING_PLANE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-03-10-13-56-20

[Plantagenet]

Multiple conspiracy theories around missing airliner

conspiracy-theories-flood-the-internet

[Sixstrings]

We need old airlinepilot on this one.

Far as I know, these jets don't just disintegrate into nothing, if it's a normal systems failure or weather -- and there wasn't even any bad weather.

From you link, Plant:

Says one user who claims to be a pilot:

At 35,000 feet they'd be able to travel another ~100-120 miles (far enough to reach the coast of Vietnam). Depending on the speed of the aircraft, it would take at least 15-30 minutes to reach the earth (or sea), giving them ample time to make a distress call. Throw in this weird stuff with the fake passports, and now reports that the plane apparently had attempted to turn back, and this makes me think something pretty sudden and catastrophic must have happened, and mechanical and/or pilot error seems unlikely in this case.

[Newfie]

I agree that the lack of a debris field is puzzling, to say the least.

Aircraft "radar" is frequently misunderstood. While there is a passive radar component the main bit is something call IFF, Identification Friend or Foe, from WWII days. It is a "transponder" that, upon hearing a radar signal responds with its own signal containing some small amount of data. Too long since I've worked on those things and I don't keep up with advances, but I think I'm still correct.

While it's possible ground basted radar could have tracked the airline at that location, it may also be that I'd someone turned off the IFF they could have just "disappeared," at least from the civilian radar. I suspect military radar, designed to track stuff without an IFF signature, may tell a different story. But, AFAIK, they aren't talking. Why?

Either that or they were transported to the independent planet of Zanir.

[Newfie]

I just did a bit of reading on this incident and one thing strikes me as really weird. They have "expanded" the search area to a discontinuous spot many miles out go the West, on the order of 600 miles West. That doesn't make any obvious sense at this point.

Here s an interesting link showing some related technology.
https://www.facebook.com/flightradar24

[Outcast_Searcher]

Outcast, your statements were rather vague, but you seem to be blaming the American government for failure at the airport in KL (Kuala Lumpur). I am sure the Malaysian government would not be pleased to hear that

But I do agree that stolen passports should have been flagged, so this does look like a major security breach (unless security officers turned a blind eye because of the harsh treatment China inflicts on it non-Han minorities).

Did I say it was the American government's fault (this time)? No, I didn't.

I said, and I maintain that large government controlled programs ANYWHERE tend to be inefficient and poor returns for the money spent. I also said that for liberals (now I'm talking America, and I wasn't clear on that) forgive any amount of government ineptness, since their goal is big government (apparently at any cost).

So let me guess. Do you think the American system via the TSA is a model of efficiency and a good thing? If so, why are the rules so arbitrary, so knee jerk, and so badly enforced as various reporters have found out by testing the system and getting all kinds of banned things on planes in the U.S.?

[Sixstrings]

Some of the families claim that passengers' cellphones are ringing and smartphone social media shows their missing relatives as being online (the phones ring but nobody answers). And Malaysia Airlines says some of the crew phones ring.

If this is true, then the wreckage would have to be on land and in range of a cell tower.

One of the most eerie rumors came after a few relatives said they were able to call the cellphones of their loved ones or find them on a Chinese instant messenger service called QQ that indicated that their phones were still somehow online.

A migrant worker in the room said that several other workers from his company were on the plane, including his brother-in-law. Among them, the QQ accounts of three still showed that they were online, he said Sunday afternoon.

Adding to the mystery, other relatives in the room said that when they dialed some passengers’ numbers, they seemed to get ringing tones on the other side even though the calls were not picked up.

The phantom calls triggered a new level of desperation and anger for some. They tried repeatedly Sunday and Monday to ask airline and police officials about the ringing calls and QQ accounts. However unlikely it was, many thought the phones might still be on, and that if authorities just tracked them down, their relatives might be found. But they were largely ignored.

According to Singapore’s Strait Times, a Malaysia Airlines official, Hugh Dunleavy, told families that the company had tried calling mobile phones of crew members as well and that they had also rang. The company turned over those phone numbers to Chinese authorities.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/vanished-malaysia-airlines-flight-leaves-relatives-with-anger-and-phantom-phone-calls/2014/03/10/fdb78642-a862-11e3-b61e-8051b8b52d06_story.html

[Sixstrings]

They have "expanded" the search area to a discontinuous spot many miles out go the West, on the order of 600 miles West.

Do you know, is that over land? The cell phone thing is very strange, the airline says crew phones ring and they've given the numbers to Chinese investigators. (thinking about this, the phone company could track that down with the push of a button, it's a network and they'd know what tower the call is routing to)

Some other news on this, China is focusing 10 satellites on the search:
http://news.yahoo.com/china-deploys-10-satellites-help-search-malaysia-jet-021251392--sector.html;_ylt=AoQHVpkQM_k2HGzE6sgNIavQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBsNWFkOTNlBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHNlYwNzcg--

[Newfie]

No, over water. But it had enough range to make India, or?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26527439

Something VERY fishy here.

I give it one in five odds (20%) this thing turns up hijacked in some manner.

My best guess is direct crew intervention, or someone who knows quite a bit about the plane. I doubt this was an accident.