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Good one Madpaddy!

Iraq is a quagmire (giggity giggity) because the US has to "sell" it's actions at home.

Our emerging Gynocracy can't tolerate anything worse than a hangnail, so it becomes impossible to secure a country which has been bathed in blood for decades.

Our politically correct "humanism" is seen as weakness in this part of the world, and is directly responsible for the difficulties the US has experienced in securing the country.

Want to see an end to violence in Iraq?

Send the Gurkhas in to kick some ass, & all this resistance will evaporate overnight. Because those boys don't mess around. No "take a knee" platitudes or ethnic diversity will bind these warriors.

Gurkhas - When you absolutely, positively have to kill every living thing within sight.

Fighting any kind of conflict bound by mom's apron strings is a sure formula for failure.

Way to go security moms...

You rock!

eastbay wrote:No mention of this from al Jazeera (English), Reuters, CNN, or BBC.

... still waiting.

Are you now?...

Man, I just missed it. Still nothing on al Jazeera, BBC or Reuters

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070606/ap_ ... urkey_iraq

However, we beat Yahoo by about 45 minutes. Unreal.

Headline at Cihan:

Turkish forces do not cross Iraqi border; military action still continues
SIRNAK - The Turkish army has not crossed the border of Iraq, however, the military offensive in the region, including bombardment of PKK bases just across the border, still continues.

Did the Kurds attack a Turkish radio station? What did they call those alliances in WWII? Are we at war with Turkey now, mmmm?

Oh, and - popcorn.

Aaron wrote:Iraq is a quagmire (giggity giggity) because the US has to "sell" it's actions at home.

Our emerging Gynocracy can't tolerate anything worse than a hangnail, so it becomes impossible to secure a country which has been bathed in blood for decades.

Our politically correct "humanism" is seen as weakness in this part of the world, and is directly responsible for the difficulties the US has experienced in securing the country.

Want to see an end to violence in Iraq?

Send the Gurkhas in to kick some ass, & all this resistance will evaporate overnight. Because those boys don't mess around. No "take a knee" platitudes or ethnic diversity will bind these warriors.

Gurkhas - When you absolutely, positively have to kill every living thing within sight.

Fighting any kind of conflict bound by mom's apron strings is a sure formula for failure.

Way to go security moms...

You rock!

The "rules of engagement" have been broken several times, as far as we know. Journalists aren't allowed open access to, or are afraid to enter battle zones. Kids have been ass raped at prisons like Abu Graib, photographed and then sent back to their villages, blackmailed into informing on their friends and families.

Military operations are often outsourced now, to corporate security which provides yet another layer of separation between the military's policing acts and accountability for them.

Bushco is accomplishing exactly what it set out to do--apply the Salvadoran solution to Iraq, but go even further and use the clusterfu** as an excuse to occupy for decades and expand into other countries in the Middle East, if need be.

Today is Wednesday and we have already the Cyclone Gonu and a Turkish invasion to Iraq!, WTF! what's gonna happen by Friday! This is THE popcorn week...

threadbear wrote:

Aaron wrote:Iraq is a quagmire (giggity giggity) because the US has to "sell" it's actions at home.

Our emerging Gynocracy can't tolerate anything worse than a hangnail, so it becomes impossible to secure a country which has been bathed in blood for decades.

Our politically correct "humanism" is seen as weakness in this part of the world, and is directly responsible for the difficulties the US has experienced in securing the country.

Want to see an end to violence in Iraq?

Send the Gurkhas in to kick some ass, & all this resistance will evaporate overnight. Because those boys don't mess around. No "take a knee" platitudes or ethnic diversity will bind these warriors.

Gurkhas - When you absolutely, positively have to kill every living thing within sight.

Fighting any kind of conflict bound by mom's apron strings is a sure formula for failure.

Way to go security moms...

You rock!

The "rules of engagement" have been broken several times, as far as we know. Journalists aren't allowed open access to, or are afraid to enter battle zones. Kids have been ass raped at prisons like Abu Graib, photographed and then sent back to their villages, blackmailed into informing on their friends and families.

Military operations are often outsourced now, to corporate security which provides yet another layer of separation between the military's policing acts and accountability for them.

Bushco is accomplishing exactly what it set out to do--apply the Salvadoran solution to Iraq, but go even further and use the clusterfu** as an excuse to occupy for decades and expand into other countries in the Middle East, if need be.

Agreed

But the Turks won't quibble with an Iraqi "pound you in the ass" prison.

Summary execution right on the spot is more their style.

These people have been treated like animals for decades... generations, and they will not respond to western nice/nice values... except with violence & resistance.

So yeah I suppose it is a perfect way to remain in theater.

Aaron wrote:
Agreed

But the Turks won't quibble with an Iraqi "pound you in the ass" prison.

Summary execution right on the spot is more their style.

These people have been treated like animals for decades... generations, and they will not respond to western nice/nice values... except with violence & resistance.

So yeah I suppose it is a perfect way to remain in theater.

I don't know...did you see "Midnight Express"?

I wonder what's worse, for a Muslim Arab, summary execution or the Abu Graib solution?

Madpaddy wrote:BREAKING NEWS: TURKEY INVADES IRAQ

I was outdoors all day yesterday. Now I'm stuck at work.

Who is winning, Turkey or Iraq?

How many of the 50,000 troops has Turkey lost?

eXpat wrote:Today is Wednesday and we have already the Cyclone Gonu and a Turkish invasion to Iraq!, WTF! what's gonna happen by Friday! This is THE popcorn week...

and even with a brief spike of $66+ today not much response from the market.

do we at PeakOil.com see into the future or is there some serious delay going on with oil prices?

Turkey is part of Nato, they wouldn't target any oil infrastructure, and this most definately will not spill over into a wider war (at least not for now; the kurds are just too weak), so in Oil market terms this is more of a non-event than the cyclone in the strait of Hormuz.

do we at PeakOil.com see into the future or is there some serious delay going on with oil prices?

A little from column A, a little from column B...

Aaron wrote:

threadbear wrote:

Aaron wrote:Iraq is a quagmire (giggity giggity) because the US has to "sell" it's actions at home.

Our emerging Gynocracy can't tolerate anything worse than a hangnail, so it becomes impossible to secure a country which has been bathed in blood for decades.

Our politically correct "humanism" is seen as weakness in this part of the world, and is directly responsible for the difficulties the US has experienced in securing the country.

Want to see an end to violence in Iraq?

Send the Gurkhas in to kick some ass, & all this resistance will evaporate overnight. Because those boys don't mess around. No "take a knee" platitudes or ethnic diversity will bind these warriors.

Gurkhas - When you absolutely, positively have to kill every living thing within sight.

Fighting any kind of conflict bound by mom's apron strings is a sure formula for failure.

Way to go security moms...

You rock!

The "rules of engagement" have been broken several times, as far as we know. Journalists aren't allowed open access to, or are afraid to enter battle zones. Kids have been ass raped at prisons like Abu Graib, photographed and then sent back to their villages, blackmailed into informing on their friends and families.

Military operations are often outsourced now, to corporate security which provides yet another layer of separation between the military's policing acts and accountability for them.

Bushco is accomplishing exactly what it set out to do--apply the Salvadoran solution to Iraq, but go even further and use the clusterfu** as an excuse to occupy for decades and expand into other countries in the Middle East, if need be.

Agreed

But the Turks won't quibble with an Iraqi "pound you in the ass" prison.

Summary execution right on the spot is more their style.

These people have been treated like animals for decades... generations, and they will not respond to western nice/nice values... except with violence & resistance.

So yeah I suppose it is a perfect way to remain in theater.

There is hope for you yet

What this might be about is weakening the Kurds to the point that they no longer have the ability to project power into the rest of Iraq. It could cause their northern border to consume most of their military resources or it could cause the Kurdish gov to come to terms with the Turks that include a weakened military. Either way they would be less of a player in the future of greater Iraq.

If the US is setting up a power situation for the future of Iraq that doesn't necessarily include the Kurds beyond a minority interest then this is an ideal starting point in the north. I would look for a Sunni led military coup after the US troops pull out, which they will soon enough.

Flak jackets and helmets everyone. From www.debka.com

Fierce battles rage Thursday between the Turkish army and Kurdish PKK rebels on both sides of Turkish-Iraqi border. A Turkish Black Hawk shot down over Iraq

Heavy casualties are reported on both sides. Turkish tanks have also been hit. The PKK Kurdish Workers Party turns out to have been ready for the major Turkish operation, well-armed with anti-tank and shoulder-borne missiles for shooting down Turkish warplanes and helicopters. Despite Ankara’s blackout on the scale of operation against the Kurdish rebels on both sides of the border and the scope of the Turkish incursion of Iraq, DEBKAfile’s military sources report the situation as of Thursday, June 7:

PKK bands, who stole earlier into southeastern Turkey from Iraq and locally, are hitting Turkish concentrations behind the lines and impeding their thrust into Iraqi Kurdistan to destroy rebel hideouts. The Turkish army is therefore fighting on two fronts: in the southeastern Turkish Gabar, Cudi and Bakok mountains and River Cehennem, as well as in northern Iraq.

An expert on Turkey at the Washington Institute for Near East policy, Soner Cagaptay, is quoted by the New York Sun as estimating there are now 250,000 soldiers massed at the Qandil mountain range on the border with northern Iraq, including heavy artillery and tanks. An Iraqi official cited 100,000. DEBKAfile’s military experts estimate 80-90,000.

The Turkish news agency Cehan reported Wednesday that three F-16 Falcon fighter bombers had carried out bombing raids on positions of the PKK in northern Iraq. Artillery deployed at the border with Iraq had fired at “pinpointed targets.”

Aaron, it's not an excess of estrogen that got us into our present quagmire. It was an excess of testosterone on the part of your home state's most famous son. If you want him back, fine, otherwise be careful what you wish for, it might come home to roost in your back yard some day.

---

Speaking of which, why do you think it is that guys whose closest encounter with combat was a joystick on a game console, always seem to believe that the Geneva Conventions are for wimps...?

Whereas if you look up the US Marine Corps Interogator/Translator Teams website, you find an intereseting collection of essays all converging on the point that torture is not only immoral, it's a shitty way to get information.

And if you ask the boots on the ground, they say that the Geneva Conventions are there to protect them from what the enemy might do to them.

And if you don't think so, then go back and watch the videos of our guys who have been beheaded, burned, dragged through the streets, hung from a bridge, and lately thrown into a river. Pay real close attention to the expressions on their faces. That's what the Geneva Conventions give us the moral authority to stand against. Or used to.

---

Meanwhile, back to our regularly scheduled cluster---- in the desert...

So here we have the Kurds, pro-Western, being attacked by the Turks, also pro-Western. While we go about creating by default a client state of the Shiite Revolution.

If evil is an axis, Iraq is a vector. In both senses of the word.

Aaron, it's not an excess of estrogen that got us into our present quagmire. It was an excess of testosterone on the part of your home state's most famous son. If you want him back, fine, otherwise be careful what you wish for, it might come home to roost in your back yard some day.

You know I respect you immensely... but... (there's always a but isn't there when somebody says that)

Don't be deceived by believing the spin doctors... this silver-spoon EastCoaster posing as a Texan.

meh

I crap bigger en that.

That's Texan for... whatever.

I didn't advocate torture for HawkMan's sake. <where did that come from?> I just pointed out the practical result of American values being seen as weakness around there... these folks lived under Saddam & the torture twins for years.

If it's a war... then it's a war.

You don't screw around with "playing nice" during a war. If you do, you risk many more lives & constant insurgency going forward. Which was pointed out earlier in this thread, as a likely intended circumstance.

In war, you dominate or you end up losing... just like Vietnam.

The Turks know this.

And now... so do you.

Aaron wrote:Don't be deceived by believing the spin doctors... this silver-spoon EastCoaster posing as a Texan.

W

1994 Governor of Texas
Bush 53% Richards 46%

2000 Presidential results in Texas
Bush 59% Gore 38%

2004 Presidential results in Texas
Bush 61% Kerry 38%

Looks like Texas's love for W is growing and growing...

Sabibaby wrote:and even with a brief spike of $66+ today not much response from the market.

Hmm...not so fast.

Oil near 9-month high above $71 on Turkey Iraq raid - LONDON (Reuters) - Oil prices steadied at $71 a barrel on Thursday, near a nine-month high, after a raid by Turkish troops into northern Iraq revived worries over exports from the Middle East, which pumps a quarter of the world's oil.

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