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Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019, 08:22:17
by vtsnowedin
derhundistlos wrote:"No shortage of sand to make glass."

In fact, a global sand shortage is so severe that many countries ban the export of sand and a thriving black market has developed. Ecosystems are being ripped apart to get at the sand. Like so many other developing shortages, the facts are being suppressed.

"When people picture sand spread across idyllic beaches and endless deserts, they understandably think of it as an infinite resource. But as we discuss in a just-published perspective in the journal Science, over-exploitation of global supplies of sand is damaging the environment, endangering communities, causing shortages and promoting violent conflict."

http://theconversation.com/the-world-is ... isis-83557

Sand shortages are a transportation problem not a supply problem.There is this thing called the Sahara you might have heard of. :)

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019, 08:35:18
by derhundistlos
"Sand shortages are a transportation problem not a supply problem.There is this thing called the Sahara you might have heard of."

Yeah, know all about it. If you had bothered to read the information, then you would know that desert sand will not work in construction applications, including the production of cement and concrete.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019, 08:44:24
by derhundistlos
This from world cement:

"The vast quantities of sand found in the many deserts of the world give rise to the misleading notion that sand is an almost unlimited natural resource. In fact, the properties of the sand used in concrete can have dramatic impacts on its quality. The wind erosion of sand in the desert results in smooth, rounded grains, which do not bind well. Moreover desert sand is mono-grained, meaning of similar size. This makes it unsuitable for use in concrete, which requires small, intermediate, and coarser particles to prevent voids between grains and reduce the amount of water necessary. Instead, then, sand for construction has traditionally been mined from land quarries and riverbeds."

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019, 08:53:34
by vtsnowedin
I've graded and tested more construction sand then you will ever see. When you run short of that in local deposits you crush it out of the base rock and screen and wash it to the desired gradation.
But we were taking about sand for glass manufacture and desert sands like that found in the Shara are ideal for that.
Again if you are short of sand what you are really saying is you are short of "Cheap" sand close by to where you need it.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019, 09:07:01
by derhundistlos
You replied to my comment with the following, "Sand shortages are a transportation problem not a supply problem. There is this thing called the Sahara you might have heard of." This statement is patently false based on easily verifiable facts. Transportation is NOT the problem. It is due to the world's declining stock of construction applicable sand.I'm glad to know you have "graded and tested more construction sand then you will ever see." So what? It doesn't change the facts of the matter.

Note to self: When in a hole, rule number one is stop digging.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 13 Mar 2019, 09:12:13
by vtsnowedin
derhundistlos wrote:You replied to my comment with the following, "Sand shortages are a transportation problem not a supply problem. There is this thing called the Sahara you might have heard of." This statement is patently false based on easily verifiable facts. Transportation is NOT the problem. It is due to the world's declining stock of construction applicable sand.I'm glad to know you have "graded and tested more construction sand then you will ever see." So what? It doesn't change the facts of the matter.

Note to self: When in a hole, rule number one is stop digging.

Again we were discussing sand for making glass. Can you not read and comprehend?
As to the construction sand there is no worldwide shortage of that just local shortages caused by the cost of transporting sand from where it lies to where it is needed. At 90 pounds per cubic foot the cost of transporting it long distances soon outweighs the value of the delivered product.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2019, 09:34:48
by Fredrik
The suitability of Saharan sand for glass is a meaningless debate if there is not enough water for growing things in greenhouses/tunnels.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:00:36
by vtsnowedin
Fredrik wrote:The suitability of Saharan sand for glass is a meaningless debate if there is not enough water for growing things in greenhouses/tunnels.

The glass would greatly reduce the amount of water lost to evaporation making trucked in water or desalinated sea water viable.
I don't think this is a cheap option just cheaper then the practicality of moving farming north into what is now boreal forest.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:22:07
by Fredrik
vtsnowedin wrote:
Fredrik wrote:The suitability of Saharan sand for glass is a meaningless debate if there is not enough water for growing things in greenhouses/tunnels.

The glass would greatly reduce the amount of water lost to evaporation making trucked in water or desalinated sea water viable.
I don't think this is a cheap option just cheaper then the practicality of moving farming north into what is now boreal forest.


I would suppose that gradually expanding farmland northwards - cutting down trees, removing stubs, roots etc. and fertilizing and alkalizing the soil - would be a daunting task, but still more viable than building greenhouses or tunnels in the middle of sand deserts and then trucking in both fertilizer and water from far away, considering the cost of fuel and energy for water desalination. But I haven't done any calculations for the latter scenario.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:32:26
by vtsnowedin
Fredrik wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Fredrik wrote:The suitability of Saharan sand for glass is a meaningless debate if there is not enough water for growing things in greenhouses/tunnels.

The glass would greatly reduce the amount of water lost to evaporation making trucked in water or desalinated sea water viable.
I don't think this is a cheap option just cheaper then the practicality of moving farming north into what is now boreal forest.


I would suppose that gradually expanding farmland northwards - cutting down trees, removing stubs, roots etc. and fertilizing and alkalizing the soil - would be a daunting task, but still more viable than building greenhouses or tunnels in the middle of sand deserts and then trucking in both fertilizer and water from far away, considering the cost of fuel and energy for water desalination. But I haven't done any calculations for the latter scenario.

The people actually risking the money will use a very sharp pencil when computing which way is the cheapest. Location matters a lot with desert between LA and San Diego being a lot different then something in central Nevada etc.. The availability of solar power adjacent to southern sites is a big factor that I think swings it in the Souths favor but you would have to wait until the need arises to get real prices to consider.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Sat 16 Mar 2019, 20:37:20
by onlooker
Eight Distinct Paths to Loss of Human Habitat


https://guymcpherson.com/2019/03/edge-o ... n-habitat/

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Mar 2019, 12:04:22
by jupiters_release
Someone needs to inform Guy this anthropogenic sixth great extinction will not wipe out all life on earth. There's already a relatively new species of fungi thriving at Fukushima Daiichi.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Mar 2019, 12:09:10
by onlooker
jupiters_release wrote:Someone needs to inform Guy this anthropogenic sixth great extinction will not wipe out all life on earth. There's already a relatively new species of fungi thriving at Fukushima Daiichi.

I thought Guy thought just humans would go extinct not all life.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Mar 2019, 15:29:26
by jupiters_release
onlooker wrote:
jupiters_release wrote:Someone needs to inform Guy this anthropogenic sixth great extinction will not wipe out all life on earth. There's already a relatively new species of fungi thriving at Fukushima Daiichi.

I thought Guy thought just humans would go extinct not all life.


You didn't watch his video you just linked?

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Fri 29 Mar 2019, 09:45:29
by Revi
Hard to tell, but it could get a lot harder to live with droughts, famines and war. I don't believe in total extinction, but it could get nasty in the next 30 years. I'll probably be off the planet by then, but it's going to be a Hobbsian world by mid century!

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Mon 01 Apr 2019, 22:14:04
by Plantagenet
I was very excited to see that Guy McPherson will be giving a lecture here at the University of Alaska!

Its scheduled for thursday. Thursday is usually my day to go on the weekly "beer run" held at a local bar, but I wouldn't miss this lecture for anything. I'm going to take a pass on the beer run and go see Guy. I've asked some friends to join me for the lecture---and one of them is an angry and annoying right-wing climate denier type.

It should all be great fun.

Cheers!

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Mon 01 Apr 2019, 23:47:16
by asg70
Plantagenet wrote:I've asked some friends to join me for the lecture---and one of them is an angry and annoying right-wing climate denier type.


I'm sure he'll be puzzled why you brought him there since you're an angry and annoying right-winger who for some inexplicable reason believes in AGW (but won't stop flying).

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Tue 02 Apr 2019, 18:53:42
by dohboi
"I don't believe in total extinction"

Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it can't kill you! :shock:

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Tue 02 Apr 2019, 18:57:21
by onlooker
Plantagenet wrote:I was very excited to see that Guy McPherson will be giving a lecture here at the University of Alaska!

Its scheduled for thursday. Thursday is usually my day to go on the weekly "beer run" held at a local bar, but I wouldn't miss this lecture for anything. I'm going to take a pass on the beer run and go see Guy. I've asked some friends to join me for the lecture---and one of them is an angry and annoying right-wing climate denier type.

It should all be great fun.

Cheers!

Hope your friend does not disrupt the lecture :lol:

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Tue 02 Apr 2019, 20:55:49
by Plantagenet
onlooker wrote:Hope your friend does not disrupt the lecture


People asking questions don't disrupt anything. Its a fundamental part of what lectures are for.

Its the people who don't ask questions who make me uncomfortable. Whats wrong with them? Did they sleep through the whole lecture? Are their brains so sluggish they don't have any questions after listening for an hour? Are they disappearing into the wall? Whats up with them?

Image

Cheers!