Page 11 of 24

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2016, 08:54:28
by KaiserJeep
For what it's worth, one can make quite passable potato chips with potatoes, a vegetable peeler, and a wood stove to heat a kettle full of vegetable oil. Sea salt to taste afterwards. Potatoes grow in all 50 states and Puerto Rico and Canada and Mexico.

I admit, I've only done so a few times, and the results were always edible but not always superior to the chips produced by a food technologist.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2016, 09:38:22
by GHung
litesong wrote:
jedrider wrote:When the plentiful food system breaks down then that is the end......


The only food that provides more calories than calories it takes to produce is the potato. Not sure what that means. It may mean that potatoes may be the only food to be mass produced & able to be delivered to people economically. Other food may have to be produced locally...very locally. No strawberries in the winter. Best strawberries (& ears of corn) are produced in Washington state.....best boysenberries, too. Best huckleberries & blueberries are above 4000 feet in the Washington Cascade mountains.


A lot of potatoes can be grown in a small space. This guy is lots of fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8IYZwkaJg

I've tried the "Mittleider gardening method" and it works quite well. If you have a source for sawdust and clean sand (and a little NPK), it's worth a try.

As for making potato chips, having a mandolin food slicer helps a lot; get those thin even slices quickly.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2016, 20:17:25
by jupiters_release
careinke wrote:
litesong wrote:
jedrider wrote:When the plentiful food system breaks down then that is the end......


The only food that provides more calories than calories it takes to produce is the potato. Not sure what that means. It may mean that potatoes may be the only food to be mass produced & able to be delivered to people economically. Other food may have to be produced locally...very locally. No strawberries in the winter. Best strawberries (& ears of corn) are produced in Washington state.....best boysenberries, too. Best huckleberries & blueberries are above 4000 feet in the Washington Cascade mountains.


The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."


Who is "we"?

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 08:26:15
by vtsnowedin
careinke wrote:The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."

More like 20% would be more like it.
Lettuce from California, beef from Nebraska wheat from Alberta,oranges from Florida,pork from Iowa,Chicken and eggs from N. Carolina,Cheese from Wisconsin, beer from New Hampshire+ Colorado, .
My potatoes and milk are local production but that is about it.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:29:58
by dohboi
vt is more right than wrong here for once.

On potatoes, I have successfully grown them in old leaves. They are products of the forest floor originally, after all.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:37:15
by ralfy
"Locally" would probably mean only a few km away.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 12:19:36
by vtsnowedin
ralfy wrote:"Locally" would probably mean only a few km away.

A fifty mile radius is the usual standard. Goes back to the days of horse and wagon.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 15:30:20
by Cid_Yama
20-30 miles would be a full days ride on a horse. With a wagon much less, 12 to 20 miles in a day. Since local would be someplace you could go and come home in a day, we are talking 10 miles.

Back in the day, Dallas to Ft Worth, a little over 30 miles, was considered a hard days ride for a rider with 2 horses.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 16:04:26
by Cid_Yama
The reality is most will not survive for long, there will be no government to house and feed you. No food to be had, and everyone around you a potential threat. Reality will be starvation, pandemic and violence.

We were discussing the definition of local, did that somehow push your buttons? You really need to mellow out.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 16:14:16
by careinke
vtsnowedin wrote:
careinke wrote:The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."

More like 20% would be more like it.
Lettuce from California, beef from Nebraska wheat from Alberta,oranges from Florida,pork from Iowa,Chicken and eggs from N. Carolina,Cheese from Wisconsin, beer from New Hampshire+ Colorado, .
My potatoes and milk are local production but that is about it.


Sorry I was speaking globally, not US specific.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 16:16:21
by careinke
jupiters_release wrote:
careinke wrote:
litesong wrote:
jedrider wrote:When the plentiful food system breaks down then that is the end......


The only food that provides more calories than calories it takes to produce is the potato. Not sure what that means. It may mean that potatoes may be the only food to be mass produced & able to be delivered to people economically. Other food may have to be produced locally...very locally. No strawberries in the winter. Best strawberries (& ears of corn) are produced in Washington state.....best boysenberries, too. Best huckleberries & blueberries are above 4000 feet in the Washington Cascade mountains.


The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."


Who is "we"?


Humans

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 16:21:02
by jupiters_release
careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
careinke wrote:The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."

More like 20% would be more like it.
Lettuce from California, beef from Nebraska wheat from Alberta,oranges from Florida,pork from Iowa,Chicken and eggs from N. Carolina,Cheese from Wisconsin, beer from New Hampshire+ Colorado, .
My potatoes and milk are local production but that is about it.


Sorry I was speaking globally, not US specific.


Over half the world's population live in cities, so at least 60% of city dwellers in the world get their food locally (of course assuming 100% of rural do to come to 80% total)?

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 16:27:13
by jupiters_release
pstarr wrote:
jupiters_release wrote:
careinke wrote:The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."


Who is "we"?

We, the bulk of the American public, all 300 million, will never have access to land or care much about local. We are going to look for calories, and will so without gainful employment. So what will We do? We the government, military and police forces will put us where we can be fed and watered easily. I'm thinking converted Walmart/Home Depot barracks.

BTW, this nonsense about a day's horse ride, potatoes and the such ignores the reality. And there is no "local" metric I am aware of? Could be at the end of the driveway? It's mostly a buzz word to rope in the foodies at Whole Foods Market.


Your back to the land local farmers truck in chx manure from Petaluma 200 miles away. Your local heritage chx farmers receive their hatchlings from mennonites in Pennsylvania via mail. Redwood curtain should be renamed Redwood national.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 19:17:45
by careinke
pstarr wrote:Real local agriculture would have to be net-nutrient zero. Solar energy, plus co2, plus your own body wastes. And you own body later, on after you die. The rest is industry and depends on OIL OIL OIL

Even after the world peak-oil collapse, the US is still wealthy. We will be housed and fed: a hearty slop at breakfast, SOS and bug juice at lunch and for dinner a big hearty streamy bowl of gruel with bits of dried beef on weekends.


Wow, I hope you enjoy that. :) I plan on eating crab, oysters, mussels, clams, fresh berries, fruits, nuts, vegetables, mushrooms, squashes, tubers, eggs.....I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Sort of like I do now.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 20:13:09
by vtsnowedin
jupiters_release wrote:
careinke wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
careinke wrote:The vast majority of food produced needs to be produced locally in order to have any chance of being sustainable, much less regenerative. We are closer than you think, I believe around 80% of the food today is produced and consumed "locally."

More like 20% would be more like it.
Lettuce from California, beef from Nebraska wheat from Alberta,oranges from Florida,pork from Iowa,Chicken and eggs from N. Carolina,Cheese from Wisconsin, beer from New Hampshire+ Colorado, .
My potatoes and milk are local production but that is about it.


Sorry I was speaking globally, not US specific.


Over half the world's population live in cities, so at least 60% of city dwellers in the world get their food locally (of course assuming 100% of rural do to come to 80% total)?

Well you would have to post some links to show what that is in reality.
Living in cites dose not automatically correspond to having access to locally grown food. It would vary greatly between each city and it's primary food source.
New York city used to get its potatoes and other truck garden vegetables from farms on Long Island. Those fields have sense been covered with Levit town suburbia and the produce is now hauled in from Idaho and California.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 21:51:39
by dohboi
jr wrote: "...at least 60% of city dwellers in the world get their food locally...of course assuming 100% of rural do "

Both totally bizarre and unsupported claims.

Can I have some of whatever you're smokin'???

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 22:41:35
by jupiters_release
dohboi wrote:jr wrote: "...at least 60% of city dwellers in the world get their food locally...of course assuming 100% of rural do "

Both totally bizarre and unsupported claims.

Can I have some of whatever you're smokin'???


You omitted my question mark after the parenthesis; I was quoting, questioning, addressing careinke who made the claim. My response to pstarr should've made that self-evident.

Re: When it's over, it's over, it's over,it's over

Unread postPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2016, 22:44:11
by jupiters_release
careinke wrote:
pstarr wrote:Real local agriculture would have to be net-nutrient zero. Solar energy, plus co2, plus your own body wastes. And you own body later, on after you die. The rest is industry and depends on OIL OIL OIL

Even after the world peak-oil collapse, the US is still wealthy. We will be housed and fed: a hearty slop at breakfast, SOS and bug juice at lunch and for dinner a big hearty streamy bowl of gruel with bits of dried beef on weekends.


Wow, I hope you enjoy that. :) I plan on eating crab, oysters, mussels, clams, fresh berries, fruits, nuts, vegetables, mushrooms, squashes, tubers, eggs.....I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Sort of like I do now.


There's over 30 becquerels per cubic meter off Pacific coast now, I'd give up all Pacific seafood if I were you.

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2019, 09:22:20
by Tanada
Kevin and Guy were joined for a few minutes by citizen journalist extraordinaire Kiwi Robin Westenra of the Seemorerocks blog, robinwestenra.blogspot.com. Most of this episode is committed to a discussion with Wales organic farmer Roger Hallam of the Extinction Revolution.


https://youtu.be/_sj-3TvTsxA

Re: Guy McPherson

Unread postPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2019, 10:49:07
by Revi
Here's a talk between Guy and a Millenial. It's pretty interesting. He doesn't seem to crazy to me. I think his strident voice is a good thing, but it seems like a dissonant voice doesn't get listened to, even if they are right. Guy makes some great points, and if you talk to other climate scientists they all are saying the same thing. He is talking about the collapse in grain crops and how that could lead to a famine. It's pretty plausible to me. He doesn't even have to get into the near term extinction in order to get our attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NPO0QBIvSU