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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sun 03 Feb 2019, 08:25:23
by Yonnipun
dohboi wrote:Interesting, but basically a personal anecdote, which is of course next to useless to science.


He has helped thousand of patients directly and millions indirectly by his book. There are probably hundreds of millions of people who are following his dietary advises. The trouble with his approach is that most people can not give up carbs. For example he had a patient who liked apples so much that could not give up eating one for evening. Dr Bernstein said that it is not possible to control his blood sugar when he is going to eat that apple in the evening and eventually the patient leaved. He was honest about that you can not cut corners if you really want to suceed. It is also not a personal anecdote becose all the complications from diabetes are basically the same. He had those but he stopped them from developing worse or some of them he even reversed. He is and engineer and solved the problem like an engineer would do. He even used computer search for data in the 70ies.Imagine that. Many diabetics do not even measure their blood sugar. It is costly because the measuring strips are not cheap.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sun 03 Feb 2019, 10:48:23
by dohboi
"The trouble with his approach is that most people can not give up carbs"

Yeah, that's what one of my first quotes basically said.

And that's a major problem. Even if the diet had none of those risks associated with it, if most people just can't stick to it, it is for practical purposes not very useful over the long term.

I'm glad you found it to be of some use.

But again, this has little to do with how meat eating is affecting the planet or your health. The promoters of this diet themselves say that it is perfectly doable for vegans, given all the meat substitutes available. And even easier for vegetarians.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 05 Feb 2019, 13:38:01
by jupiters_release
Diabetes didn't exist before agriculture.

Go Paleo and you won't have diabetes.

Fat is delicious.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 05 Feb 2019, 23:58:22
by jedrider
It's a plankton eat plankton world and always has been, at least, for approximately 635 million years.

How predatory plankton created modern ecosystems after 'Snowball Earth'
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190201114135.htm

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 11 Feb 2019, 10:45:57
by dohboi
The beef industry puts hundreds of thousands of dollars into political campaigns. As shown on Open Secrets, during the 2018 election cycle, livestock companies gave $278,656 to Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, $46,897 to Rep. Jim Costa, D-Calif., and $46,678 to Sen. Martha McSally, R-Ariz., to name a few campaigns.

When the 2015 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee — comprised of health experts who plan the dietary guidelines for the USDA — proposed putting sustainability in the guidelines, the beef industry knew whom to turn to.

“They went straight to Congress and Congress instructed the secretary of agriculture not to have sustainability in the dietary guidelines,” Nestle said. ...


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/im ... -t-n969576

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 09:51:22
by dohboi
I hadn't heard that Booker is a vegan. That may help elevate the status of the diet further...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... 20-1170729

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 20:32:05
by dohboi
And note:

In the NBA, fake-meat diets are changing the game


https://www.latimes.com/sports/nba/la-s ... story.html

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sun 17 Feb 2019, 21:42:57
by KaiserJeep
The whole topic of the thread appears to be mistaken, in any case. Meat eaters are good for the planet, and vegans or vegetarians very bad for it:

http://www.rightwaytobegreen.com/eat-meat-and-save-the-planet/

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 18 Feb 2019, 08:12:38
by Ibon
Why does this thread, fixated as it does on food, remind me of the cliche of Roman gluttons at the peak of their decadence rather than humanity at the doorstep of severe environmental calamity.

Is this what always happens when on the brink?

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 18 Feb 2019, 10:07:43
by Newfie
Driving through the fog faster and faster because nothing bad has happened yet.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 18 Feb 2019, 10:21:34
by onlooker
Maybe when people truly realize the end is near to whatever, they cling ever tighter to it , my two cents

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sat 20 Apr 2019, 03:11:14
by aldente
KaiserJeep wrote:Not only is eating a non-meat diet completely unnatural, I think it mentally unbalances a person, causing bizzarre thoughts and behaviors.


if we reverse your quote - KaiserJeep - it becomes even more bizarre:

non meat eating reservoirs eat lukewarm steak that is boney.

Do you? I mean - do you eat bones??

seriously?!

Image

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sat 20 Apr 2019, 13:04:33
by jupiters_release
jupiters_release wrote:Diabetes didn't exist before agriculture.

Go Paleo and you won't have diabetes.

Fat is delicious.


I was wrong, blue light exposure specifically 415 to 470nm alone which we're inundated with causes type 2 diabetes. But during Paleolithic the only blue light came from the sun around high noon so Paleo Everything will prevent it.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 22 Apr 2019, 20:57:41
by dohboi
Besides the planet, meat eaters are of course also killing themselves, sadly:

Eating just one slice of bacon a day linked to higher risk of colorectal cancer, says study

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/17/health/c ... index.html

Eating even a moderate amount of red or processed meat is linked with an increased risk of colorectal (bowel) cancer, according to a new study published Wednesday.

People who ate 76 grams of red and processed meat per day -- that's in line with current guidelines and roughly the same as a quarter-pound beef burger -- had a 20% higher chance of developing colorectal cancer compared to others, who ate about 21 grams a day, the equivalent to one slice of ham, according to the research.

The study also found that processed meat, like sausages or bacon, posed a bigger risk than red meat, with the risk of colorectal cancer rising 20% with every 25 grams of processed meat (roughly equivalent to a thin slice of bacon) people ate per day, and by 19% with every 50 grams of red meat (a thick slice of roast beef or the edible bit of a lamb chop)...

Growing evidence

This latest research adds to a body of evidence that links red and processed meats to an increased risk of colorectal cancer.

"Our results strongly suggest that people who eat red and processed meat four or more times a week have a higher risk of developing bowel cancer than those who eat red and processed meat less than twice a week," Key said...

The World Health Organization concluded in 2015 that there is enough evidence to classify processed meat as "carcinogenic to humans"...

...the results "confirm previous findings that both, red and processed meat consumption increase the risk of colorectal cancer." ...

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 23 Apr 2019, 05:18:51
by Cog
Ever wonder if a person is a vegan? No need to worry, he will make sure you know. Vegans are never content to simply embrace their plant grazing habits but wish to force the rest of us into their world. No wonder the USA is so obese compared to the rest of the world. Carbs are the biggest poison ever foisted upon mankind.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 23 Apr 2019, 09:39:02
by dohboi
Soooo, if someone didn't mention to you that they were vegan, you would never know, so that would further confirm your prejudice. And of course if anyone does tell you, those will be the only people you know are vegans, further confirming your prejudice.

There, my friends, is a textbook case of how confirmation bias works.

(By the way, I know many people who I didn't realize were vegans for many years, till I started to notice that whenever I went over to their house, there was no meat or dairy...I only found out for sure by asking them.)

In any case, this bogus claim has no relevance to the topic at hand. Do you disagree with the overwhelming findings of multiple studies that eating meat (especially processed meat) increases your chances of getting cancer, and is bad for the planet? If so, why? If not, are either or both altering the amount of meat you choose to consume?

(Prepare for cog and others to again try to change the subject with more character assassination or other bigoted comments...)

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 24 Apr 2019, 05:54:03
by KaiserJeep
Dohboi, I noticed that in the earlier thread, when we produced actual published and peer-reviewed scientific studies that showed that mental diseases and defects caused by diet deficiencies are more widespread in both vegans and vegetarians than in meat eaters, that you shied away from discussing this topic.

I do not doubt that most humans, especially Westerners, eat more meat than is good for them. I also believe that humans are natural omnivores, along with the other primates. I believe that SOME animal - or at least insect - protein is an essential component of a healthy diet.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 24 Apr 2019, 15:31:09
by careinke
You simply cannot repair/regenerate the earth's soils without animals. That said, without something eating those animals, and returning them to the soil, the animal populations will explode and overwhelm the earth's vegetation, killing the soils. Therefore, meat eaters are saving the planet. :)

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 24 Apr 2019, 15:49:09
by dohboi
c said: "you simply cannot repair/regenerate the earth's soils without animals."

Yup. And guess what, humans are animals. :-D

And yes, it would be good if there were a top predator that kept our numbers in check, in a way. But as it is, we have to figure out the best ways to do that ourselves, the education of women being the means that has been found to be most effective.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 24 Apr 2019, 19:41:24
by Newfie
No worries, humanity is working on that.