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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 18 Dec 2018, 17:39:35
by Ibon
Pstarr, i was directing my ccmments at everyone and not singling you out. I would not have made those comments if this dialogue had been on page 3 or 5.

Sorry but 21 pages of discussion coming back again and again to the exact same discussion points IS boredom and uncreative and a waste of time...

Who disagrees that eating less meat would be beneficial to most people and the planet. This is a simple truth without having to defend your position as carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, paleo or whatever other rediculous label you choose to call yourself.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 18 Dec 2018, 17:46:36
by KaiserJeep
Ibon, that one went wide of the mark. For example the purpose of "industrialized packaged food" is to allow cities to exist, or more genericly, to allow greater distances between the crops and the people consuming them. If everybody were living in close proximity to agriculture, processed, preserved, and packaged foods would not exist. Nor would our civilization, at least not in the present form.

As for animal protein and the contented torpor consuming it creates, that too has a purpose. It allows one to forget about searching for food and think of other topics. It amuses me to hear of vegans who feel "stimulated and alert" after eating vegetable matter, they are not recognizing that their bodies are telling them to go kill something and eat it.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 18 Dec 2018, 17:57:48
by onlooker
Have to highlight two points that I think stand out in this conversation
First, the degree of meat consumption and land dediicated to it is undeniably bad ecologically and totally unsustainable. The second is overpopulation makes every other ecological problem worse. So, having more arable land available is not a good thing.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 18 Dec 2018, 19:40:41
by Ibon
Recommended reading


In Defense of Food
Michael Pollan
An Eater's Manifesto
Food. There’s plenty of it around, and we all love to eat it. So why should anyone need to defend it? Because most of what we’re consuming today is not food, and how we’re consuming it — in the car, in front of the TV, and increasingly alone — is not really eating. Instead of food, we’re consuming “edible foodlike substances” — no longer the products of nature but of food science. The result is what Michael Pollan calls the American paradox: The more we worry about nutrition, the less healthy we seem to become.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 18 Dec 2018, 19:47:21
by KaiserJeep
I just saw the comedy National Lampoons Christmas Vacation on the TV. Chevy Chase as Clark Griswold, whose profession is "Food Additive Engineer". His proudest achiement, which made his career, a "non-nutritive food varnish".

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 18 Dec 2018, 20:29:40
by farmlad
We could save so much by eating more of the animals we do raise. That means all the meat and fat brains and organs. cooking the bones ligaments heads and hooves for the broth.

Soil where vegetables are grown, benefits big time from rotations into multispecies cover crops and the cover crops make for awesome grazing for many species of livestock. Rotating tilled acres into perrennial grasses where the grazing is managed well for several years is also a great way to rejenerate that soil so that it can again raise heathy vegetables that don't require pesticides and fungicides and chemical fertilizers.

And lastly there are vast areas on this planet (about 1/4 of the land surface area) where its to dry for most crops and where humans traditionaly have survived by eating the flesh and milk from livestock that derive their nutrition from grass. This includes people like the Mongolians Laplanders and Maasai. And now that we have a better understanding of how nature intends for grazing to occur, we are now witnessing soil healing and regenerating in very inhospitable areas. This includes grasses coming back where they were basically gone for many decades and streams starting to flow all year instead of just during the rainy season. While at the same time on neighboring wildlife preserves desertification continues to get worse and worse.

Not all meat eaters are killing the planet, only the ones that eat CAFO meat.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Dec 2018, 14:24:53
by dohboi
"Who disagrees that eating less meat would be beneficial to most people and the planet. This is a simple truth without having to defend your position as carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, paleo or whatever other rediculous label you choose to call yourself."

Thanks, Ibon. That's pretty much all I'm saying. I am constantly amazed at how much heat and bluster reaction to this simple truth generates, though.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Dec 2018, 22:08:26
by Shaved Monkey
No one disagrees with eating less meat, people disagree with no animals in the food chain as the best environmental solution

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 10:02:23
by JuanP
This article is on the subject. It agrees with the thread's title premise that meat eaters are killing the planet. I eat a little meat and I won't stop voluntarily; I think I am like most people in this.
"Ecocide as Creative Destruction"
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/12/21 ... struction/

Re: Factory Farms Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 10:18:57
by GHung
I fixed the title of this thread. Eating venison from my place last night had nothing to do with killing the planet; just killing that deer. We have plenty of those.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 10:22:58
by onlooker
How about 7 plus billion of us eating anything are killing the planet!

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 11:13:18
by Cog
The planet will be here long after humans are a distant memory. Humans couldn't suppress life even if we set out to do it.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 11:21:41
by onlooker
Cog wrote:The planet will be here long after humans are a distant memory. Humans couldn't suppress life even if we set out to do it.

True. Killing certain life giving conditions of the planet

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Thu 27 Dec 2018, 14:53:10
by dohboi
"planet will be here long after humans are a distant memory"

Yes, the physical object revolving around the sun will be there, and many microbes (though whose 'memory' we will be a 'distant' part of is one to ponder! :) ) That is unless some major object from space wipes it out, maybe something like this:

A Million Years From Now, Another Star Will Visit Our Solar System


https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... ers-surge/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/ ... /two-suns/

(A similar but more distant visitor swung by about 70T ybp: A Visiting Star Jostled Our Solar System 70,000 Years Ago https://gizmodo.com/a-visiting-star-jos ... 1823954398)


But we are well into a Great Mass Extinction event which has been and likely will continue to wipe out most complex life forms on earth.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Thu 27 Dec 2018, 15:54:03
by Newfie
dohboi wrote:"Who disagrees that eating less meat would be beneficial to most people and the planet. This is a simple truth without having to defend your position as carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, paleo or whatever other rediculous label you choose to call yourself."

Thanks, Ibon. That's pretty much all I'm saying. I am constantly amazed at how much heat and bluster reaction to this simple truth generates, though.


REALLY? Look at the title of the thread, do you think you could be more inflammatory? And then you are suprised? Sheesh!

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Thu 27 Dec 2018, 18:06:33
by dohboi
"eating less meat would be beneficial to most people and the planet"

If you want to change the name of the title to that, be my guest.

But I find provocative titles to generate more discussion than bland and lengthy ones.

Or are we supposed to tiptoe on eggshells around here, to be the right-wing version of 'politically correct,' so we never hurt anyone's delicate feelings or make them feel uncomfortable?? :)

Maybe the meat enthusiasts on the forum need a special 'safe space' to share their love of flesh without any of those pesky, fact-based, advocates for plant-based diets??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Thu 27 Dec 2018, 18:24:54
by Outcast_Searcher
dohboi wrote:Maybe the meat enthusiasts on the forum need a special 'safe space' to share their love of flesh without any of those pesky, fact-based, advocates for plant-based diets??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do you need to be in your safe space when people object to your saying or implying that they shouldn't eat any meat?

How many people do you think would have a problem with vegans, vegetarians, etc, if they simply did their thing and didn't try the preaching / advocacy route?

It's not so much the message, it's the tone.

And this should apply to all potentially "sensitive" issues, whether tending to come from the left or the right.

...

And maybe the test as to whether force should be used should at least largely be based on how much good forcing the issue would do.

For example: Forcing people not to eat any meat isn't going to fix the AGW problem by itself. Not even close, especially if BAU population growth continues apace.

However, if virtually everyone in the first world received the recommended vaccinations, diseases which vaccinations have essentially wiped out wouldn't threaten to become epidemics, once again in normal first world settings. For people (for example) with kids in public schools, the issue is a legitimate concern, IMO.

So IMO, both tone and practicality of actually fixing the underlying problem changing behavior is supposed to fix matter. Especially compared to worrying about whether the issue is more of a left or right wing issue.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Thu 27 Dec 2018, 19:28:23
by Newfie
dohboi wrote:
But I find provocative titles to generate more discussion than bland and lengthy ones.


You write a provocative title then are suprised folks are provoked.

Trolling.

Wiki

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Thu 27 Dec 2018, 20:31:56
by dohboi
Not particularly surprise, pretty predictable response, actually, from many of the thin-skinned, paranoid people around here.

Hey, if the site now wants threads that no one ever comments on, you all should knock yourselves out, and change all thread titles to the blandest, most boring and rambling verbiage you can come up with. I'm sure that will do wonders for numbers of posts in the forum. You guys are in charge. If you don't like something, you are perfectly free to change it rather than haranguing posters for their inability to walk properly on every eggshell spread around in your perfectly safe, perfectly pc space! :)

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2018, 08:39:24
by Newfie
dohboi wrote:"Who disagrees that eating less meat would be beneficial to most people and the planet. This is a simple truth without having to defend your position as carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, paleo or whatever other rediculous label you choose to call yourself."

Thanks, Ibon. That's pretty much all I'm saying. I am constantly amazed at how much heat and bluster reaction to this simple truth generates, though.


You are “constantly amazed” by the “heat and blister” on a thread where you intentionally provided a “provocative” title.

Sounds to me you got what you asked for.