Page 16 of 24

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018, 18:01:36
by Yonnipun
not to mention for their own health*


Life expectancy in India - 68. Vegans and vegetarians

Life expectancy in Italy, Sweden etc etc - over 80. Meat eaters.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2018, 18:17:56
by SeaGypsy
Totally false equivalency.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 03:22:34
by Shaved Monkey
Luxembourg,Spain and France and Australia are big meat eaters that have higher than average life expectancies

The Japanese are big fish eaters and have high life expectancies and the Okinawans are big pork eaters and have higher life expectancy than their fellow predominantly fish eating Japanese

Image

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_p ... e2ffa3c15b

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 04:06:33
by Yonnipun
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/baby-dies-diet-parents-convicted-lucas-dendermonde-belgium-malnutrition-dehydration-a7790916.html

The court gave both a suspended six-month sentence because they failed to take adequate action to take care of baby Lucas, who died at seven months old with organs shrunk to half their size and without any fat around them.


Even though the baby was not diagnosed with lactose or gluten intolerance, the parents suspected Lucas had that, and started experimenting with different alternatives like rice, quinoa and buckwheat milk. They did not consult a doctor, court papers show and stopped going to social care for babies.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 04:11:48
by Yonnipun
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/12-year-old-vegan-has-the-degenerating-bones-of-80-year-old/

A 12 year old girl raised on a strict vegan diet was admitted to the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow, Scotland, suffering from a severe form of rickets. The girl had already experienced multiple fractures and been diagnosed with a degenerated spine comparable to that of an unhealthy 80-year-old woman.


If raised strictly vegan, the child would almost certainly have severe deficiencies of Vitamins A and D, both of which are essential bone nutrients that can only be obtained from animal products. In all likelihood, she would also be lacking needed calcium, zinc, B-12 as well as other B vitamins, Vitamin K, the EPA and DHA fatty acids and the sulfur containing amino acids methionine and cysteine.

Although the human body is theoretically capable of converting beta carotene into Vitamin A, children are not able to do so efficiently if at all. Sunlight could have provided Vitamin D but only if the family lived outdoors in the tropics and not in a northern clime like Scotland.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 04:19:27
by Yonnipun
https://ottawasun.com/2015/04/10/parents-of-toddler-whose-vegan-diet-led-to-death-sentenced-to-30-months/wcm/64f62d5b-8e45-4ebd-b1d5-4be4d2fb1c7c

During their trial, Dr. Michael Pollanen testified Matinah had rickets, a bone disease, from a complete absence of Vitamin D in her system, megaloblastic anemia and protein deficiency. Her bones were so soft from malnutrition that she had two healing fractures — not from abuse but from either routine handling or her tiny body being unable to sustain her own paltry weight.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 04:43:51
by Yonnipun
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1542293.stm

The couple were vegans, but in 1996 switched to a fruitarian diet consisting of raw vegetables fruit and nuts.

After Areni's birth on 8 September 1999, the family saw a paediatrician who said the baby was not developing properly, and that her mother's breastmilk was nutritionally deficient.

Other doctors and social workers warned against the diet.

But the court was told the couple had shown a "stubborn refusal", and would not follow the advice.

Later, the family went to live on a vegetarian commune in Spain, where they believed Areni's Vitamin D deficiency would be cured by sunlight.

The couple believed all Areni needed was "sunshine and fruit".

They returned to the UK in July 2000 when Areni became seriously ill.

A doctor who the couple went to see, who specialised in oxygen therapy, told Areni's parents she needed to be taken to hospital immediately.

But Mr Manuelyan, a bus driver, was said to be worried about the chemicals his daughter may be treated with, and the couple ignored the advice.

On July 5, 2000, an ambulance was called to the family home because Areni had stopped breathing. She was taken to hospital and later certified dead.

A nutritionist said even if she had been taken to hospital the day before her death, she could have survived.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 06:29:24
by KaiserJeep
We have of course already discussed the fact that Vegan and Vegetarian diets are deficient in essential nutrients:

1. Vitamin B12
Vitamin B12 is an essential nutrient found in virtually no plant foods.

Also known as cobalamin, vitamin B12 is a water-soluble nutrient involved in the development of red blood cells, maintenance of nerves and normal brain function.

Without supplements or enriched foods, vegetarians are at a high risk of vitamin B12 deficiency (1).

It is mainly found in animal foods, such as fish, meat, dairy products and eggs (2).

Lacto-ovo vegetarians can get adequate amounts of vitamin B12 from dairy products and eggs, but this is much more challenging for vegans (3).

For this reason, vegans are at a higher risk of vitamin B12 deficiency than some vegetarians (4, 5, 6, 7).

The signs, symptoms and risks associated with deficiency include:

Weakness, fatigue (8).
Impaired brain function (9).
A variety of neurological disorders (10).
Psychiatric disorders (11).
Neurological disorders in babies of breast-feeding mothers (12).
Megaloblastic anemia (13).
Possible links with Alzheimer's disease (14).
Possible links with heart disease (15).
Vegans must get vitamin B12 by taking supplements or eating enriched food or certain types of seaweed.

Many processed foods have been enriched with vitamin B12. These include enriched yeast extracts, soya products, breakfast cereals, bread and meat-substitutes (3, 16).

In addition, a few plant foods naturally contain small amounts of bioactive vitamin B12. These include:

Nori seaweed, a type of marine algae (17, 18, 19, 20).
Tempeh, a fermented soy product (21, 22).
Nori seaweed is considered the most suitable source of biologically available vitamin B12 for vegans (23).

Keep in mind that raw or freeze-dried nori may be better than conventionally dried. It seems that some of the vitamin B12 is destroyed in the drying process (19, 24, 25).

Another plant food often claimed to contain vitamin B12 is spirulina. However, spirulina contains so-called pseudovitamin B12, which is not biologically available. For this reason, it is not suitable as a source of vitamin B12 (26).

BOTTOM LINE:
Vitamin B12 is only found in animal foods and certain types of seaweed. Vegans can get vitamin B12 by taking supplements, eating enriched foods or eating nori seaweed.


That is just the first of seven essential nutrients that vegans/vegetarians don't get. The rest:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants

Before anybody gets in a protracted argument with somebody who doesn't eat meat and has not done so for a prolonged period, one should consider that such people are virtually certain to have damaged brains arising from dietary deficiencies.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 06:37:36
by Yonnipun
Right. India is mostly a third world country, and can hardly afford meat.


The paradox of being poor - instead of starving they become fat. For example there are many children in africa who technically are not starving but their calories come from grain based carbohydrates. They have huge distended bellies from the lack of animal protein - meat . This is the extreme case of fatty liver.
Also I have a friend who is pretty poor and unable to work because of his health issues. That does not stop him to maintain his 450 pound body mass. I have stopped trying to lecture him about his diet because he denies everything. I asked him lately what is his blood sugar. He said that it has always been normal. Next day he had to go to the doctor for the annual check out and turned out his blood sugar was 10! Now he pops a pill and says that 7-8 blood sugar is normal. He is still in denial as you can see. Normal is 4.6 on the standard diet. The problem with people like him( and myself) is that grains are very addictive. It is like alcohol. Some people can be functional alcoholics , the others go downhill very fast. I stopped alcohol completely 2 years ago. And I was not even addicted.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 07:54:05
by SeaGypsy
KJ the deficiency argument is myth. Google "Vegan diet deficiency myth" & read, I'm not going to bother arguing with stupid.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 08:15:48
by dohboi
Nicely put, SG.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 08:18:27
by dohboi
Juan wrote:

"I eat beef a couple of times a month"

I think the world could just about handle that level of near-vegetarianism.

What it can't handle is the US (and some other country's) very high level of industrial beef (and pork/chicken/lamb...) consumption.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 11:54:21
by KaiserJeep
SeaGypsy wrote:KJ the deficiency argument is myth. Google "Vegan diet deficiency myth" & read, I'm not going to bother arguing with stupid.


To the contrary, the American Medical Association has endorsed the list of missing nutrients in Vegan/Vegetarian diets. Before we spend time in yet another rathole, we need to define terms. Here are the Mayo Clinic definitions:

Types of vegetarian diets
When people think about a vegetarian diet, they typically think about a diet that doesn't include meat, poultry or fish. But vegetarian diets vary in what foods they include and exclude:

*Lacto-vegetarian diets exclude meat, fish, poultry and eggs, as well as foods that contain them. Dairy products, such as milk, cheese, yogurt and butter, are included.
*Ovo-vegetarian diets exclude meat, poultry, seafood and dairy products, but allow eggs.
*Lacto-ovo vegetarian diets exclude meat, fish and poultry, but allow dairy products and eggs.
*Pescatarian diets exclude meat and poultry, dairy, and eggs, but allow fish.
*Pollotarian diets exclude meat, dairy and fish, but allow poultry.
*Vegan diets exclude meat, poultry, fish, eggs and dairy products — and foods that contain these products.


Now note that ALL variations of Vegan/Vegetarian diets are deficient in essential nutrients. Note also that ALL such deficiencies can be compensated for by taking dietary supplements in the form of pills and powders. However, as you descend the scale above these supplements become more expensive and harder to afford. In fact a truly nutritious, truly Vegan diet - the last alternative above - costs about 2.5X what the normal US diet of meats/dairy/vegetables costs. If as MOST Vegans do, one eats the diet and fails to add the expensive dietary supplements that an omnivorous ape needs, then a number of deleterious effects happen, prime among them being brain damage.

I know people who indulge in small portions of meat/fish/poultry once a week. Even that is enough to provide the B vitamins, D vitamins, and the essential amino acids that one can get only from animal proteins or dietary supplements, especially if one also takes a simple daily multi-vitamin/mineral supplement capsule. It is a cheap way to be "almost" Vegan, and get the benefits without the health problems.

Consider this and decide if we are actually disagreeing or not. Because I know many people here in California in particular who have been practicing extreme Vegan diets for years without supplements. That includes practicing Hindus who display swollen bellies and emaciated bodies, and silly Middle Class people of all nationalities. There are also, I admit, a few famous Vegans who are the CEOs of major Silly Valley corporations, and wealthy enough to have personal trainers and nutritionists.

That latter group is the only one that I think actually carries off Veganism without compromising their health. Some of them also display borderline beliefs in non-mainstream philosophies such as Scientology, for example. I actually don't know whether such folks are skipping their pills and supplements, either. Nor do I know whether they were free from mental disease before they began Veganism.

Considering all of these things, maybe we are not disagreeing.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 11:57:49
by ROCKMAN
Might as well throw some facts into the discussion. Where does the global calorie intake come from?From the folks at National Geographics:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/what-the-world-eats/

9% comes from meat And beef consumption has been gradually declining for some time while pork has be booming. BTW cattle graze…pigs don’t.

56% from grain and produce. IOW almost all of the deforested land has been turned to growing crops and not grazing cattle.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 21:14:57
by Tanada
pstarr wrote:Level 5 Vegan. ... A Level 5 Vegan is defined as someone who never eats anything that casts a shadow.


So they only eat mushrooms grown in caves by blind folks who don't need lights to do their work?

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 22:01:51
by SeaGypsy
LOL, taking dietary advice from the same idiots who presided over the antidepressant & opoid epidemic. May as well ask my local crack dealer what to eat.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Mon 13 Aug 2018, 18:24:06
by onlooker
4 Environmental Activists Are Killed Every Week So We Can Have Snacks, Meat And Coffee


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/en ... 86f48f2fb6

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sat 01 Sep 2018, 10:22:54
by dohboi
“What we eat can save the world, and ourselves.”

Billions of farm animals deserve a day of rest too — keep them off the grill and off your table on Labor Day

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Sat 01 Sep 2018, 11:18:05
by KaiserJeep
....or you could have an animal feast and temporarily reduce the number of meat animals, for the sake of the planet.

Chickens and beef and pigs are likely to never be endangered, because they taste good.

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postPosted: Tue 04 Sep 2018, 10:48:02
by vox_mundi
Image