Page 2 of 2

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 11:08:45
by onlooker
Great post by Dissident. And even if we did have a sound Economy and Money and retained some of our technology, the demise of hospitable living conditions on this planet cannot but reduce the existence of those who survive to a relentless and perilous challenge to continue surviving. Not a world, I would like to live in

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 11:20:50
by Cog
Don't worry onlooker. New York will pass a law against it.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Mon 24 Dec 2018, 15:24:14
by KaiserJeep
This civilization would have collapsed a couple of times this century alone, except for our technology, particularly our digital technology.

Parts of the world are already in collapse. The main symptom is refugees. Look at Africa and the Middle East and parts of S America. You KNOW how close they are, that's why the natives are restless in the countries receiving the refugees. That's why we are building a wall here in America.

As I have said before, many times, collapse is a process, not an event. There NEVER will come a date that you can point to and say "That was it." You have never lived in a World that wwas not dying from too many people, and you never will, whether we continue to burn FF's or not. Your GrandFather never lived in such a World, and your Grandkids will live in such, each generation incrementally worse off, more desperate as the fate of all becomes clear.

The Long Emergency started perhaps 200 years ago, and all people everywhere will understand this in another few decades. There is no helping the seven billion plus who will be dying. Understanding and acceptance are a blessing if you can manage such. Blaming others is fruitless, useless, simply an expression of hate. They are equally as culpable as are you, it's true. They are equally as helpless to change the outcome as are you.

If you remeber nothing else, remember this: Beware the man on a white horse who will promise to save you.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2019, 12:19:05
by dohboi
Here's another type of tipping point that China seems to have passed:

Chinagov confirms: population decline unstoppable

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-46772503

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2019, 12:24:02
by pstarr
Sorry doh, not spinnable as an eco-tragedy. More the demographic transition, the very same the United Nations claims to be responsible for the coming Ecotopia, say around 2050 with 9 billion brilliant babies.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2019, 23:21:09
by derhundistlos
SOCIETY RISKS GLOBAL ECOLOGICAL CATASTROPHE DUE TO DOMINO EFFECT OF TIPPING POINTS

According to a recently published article in the journal “Nature”, scientists warn policymakers severely underestimate or fail to consider the ever-escalating risks of ecological tipping points due to the amplification effect of natural systems.

For example, Amazon deforestation is responsible for multiple “cascading effects” – weakening rain systems, forests becoming savannah, and reduced water supplies for cities like São Paulo and crops in the foothills of the Andes. This, in turn, exacerbates deforestation as people look to replace degraded environments.

We will wake up one morning to discover we finally ushered in ecological Armageddon. The signs are everywhere……

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... study-says

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 13:39:19
by onlooker
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/m ... K77vd6nMzc
We are dead men and women walking with the ubiquitous contamination of the planet

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 17:41:59
by derhundistlos
onlooker- Yes, it's death by a thousand forms of manmade environmental devastation. One day, in the not too distant future, we will wake one day to discover we have finally ushered in irreparable destruction of a critical ecological system that had been previously taken for granted.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 18:12:25
by onlooker
underthedome.jpg
underthedome.jpg (18.31 KiB) Viewed 4124 times
derhundistlos wrote:onlooker- Yes, it's death by a thousand forms of manmade environmental devastation. One day, in the not too distant future, we will wake one day to discover we have finally ushered in irreparable destruction of a critical ecological system that had been previously taken for granted.

Yes and if we survive may depend on if we build artificial habitats that can sustain many of us for a prolonged period of time.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Sat 02 Mar 2019, 18:50:03
by Cog
If only that pesky reality wouldn't get in the way of doom.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Mon 04 Mar 2019, 14:29:05
by Newfie
Cog wrote:The air on earth has been breathable for hundreds of millions of years through higher global co2 levels and temperatures. It's hubris to think humans are or can change that.


Again I see you are stuck with looking at history and failing to turn forward to the future.

I’m reminded of the disclaimer “Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.”

Remember this, each Civiilization that has collapsed had never collapsed before.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Mon 04 Mar 2019, 14:34:51
by onlooker
Newfie, I see Cog as the prototypical Denialist. Denying not so much by refuting the facts but simply refusing to entertain them

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Wed 06 Mar 2019, 23:38:16
by derhundistlos
Call this just one more tipping point (but not to worry according to cog)........

Another of our thousand cuts of death against the earth, and another example of how our environmental destruction can (will) boomerang to cause human extinction:

During the past decade, ocean oxygen levels have plummeted in an alarming trend linked to climate change, this according to Andreas Oschlies, an oceanographer at the Helmholtz Center for Ocean Research Kiel in Germany, whose team tracks ocean oxygen levels worldwide.

“We were surprised by the intensity of the changes we saw, how rapidly oxygen is going down in the ocean and how large the effects on marine ecosystems are. Oxygen levels in some tropical regions have dropped by a startling 40 percent in the last 50 years."

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Thu 07 Mar 2019, 07:21:43
by Newfie
onlooker wrote:Newfie, I see Cog as the prototypical Denialist. Denying not so much by refuting the facts but simply refusing to entertain them


I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than those disrupters who invariably drive the discussion to some arcane factoid and scream it disproves all else. Perhaps if Cog were able to entertain the facts he would use his logical brain to process it.

I’ve a few theories about why we have such a persistent denier community. Probably all play a partial role.
Some just can not stand the thought of the possible die off, it is unthinkable.
Some are so caught up in their own hubris they can’t imagjne being wrong.
Some, far too many on both sides of the argument (AOC comes to mind) have not clue one but simply follow their herd thinking.
Some are mentally deranged.

Recently saw an article that said 16% of millennials and not convienced Earth is round, are open to other possibilities or believe in other shapes, E.g. flat Earthers. There is just a uninformed, ignorant, scared, weird fring you will never reach. AWG denialist are running about 23% of the population IIRC. Not too far different.

But I do think AIC with her GND BS has agitated them, put a stick in the bee hive.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Thu 07 Mar 2019, 07:46:52
by Ibon
Newfie wrote:
onlooker wrote:Some just can not stand the thought of the possible die off, it is unthinkable.
Some are so caught up in their own hubris they can’t imagjne being wrong.
Some, far too many on both sides of the argument (AOC comes to mind) have not clue one but simply follow their herd thinking.
Some are mentally deranged.



I think you missed the most important one.

Most cannot entertain the idea that their consumption lifestyles might be one day threatened.

A wood tick on a dogs ass really hopes for the resilience of his canine host. Most people are parasitic in their consumption habits and they cannot entertain the idea that their host, our planet, may be imperiled.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Thu 07 Mar 2019, 12:50:59
by KaiserJeep
Ibon wrote:
Pops wrote:
dohboi wrote:Pops, your last point reminds me of a sociological study of two adjacent neighborhoods in Chicago. During the deadly heatwave of '95, one neighborhood suffered very many deaths, the other, hardly any at all. After ruling out a number of other possible factors, the sociologist concluded that the difference was community cohesion.

Very good.
Showing another downside to the rise of sensationalist clickbait media, let alone the silos of the net.


Yep, this is why I laugh every time I read on this site the predictions from the clueless that Central and South America will suffer devastating consequences of peak oil and climate change while the USA will remain resilient.


Ibon, all I ever claimed was that Peak Oil will effectively end mechanized agriculture in the Third World. When gasoline is $10/g there won't be much being grown there with tractors or transported with trucks or by rail. However, even when it's $25/g the USA will still be eating, that is my estimate of fuel pricing when food takes 50% of the average American's income.

Food production in the USA is almost exclusively by large corporations. They will adapt to elevated fuel pricing by raising food prices. I simply do not think there is that much resilience in the Third World.

Take your luxury eco-resort, for example. Try to imagine no internet, when your knowledge is reduced to whatever you have in hardcopy, and you cannot buy sugar, salt, or grains at the store, and there is no gasoline or diesel at any price. Nor will there be propane, kerosene, or Coleman fuel.

Do you have hardcopies? An Encyclopedia Brittanica would be a good thing to have. You have a plan for sweeteners, salt, and other spices? An herb garden already exists? What will you be doing for income with no tourists?

How long before the hordes of people from the lowlands burn their way to your door with slash&burn, animal-powered agriculture?

I am not claiming that all food disappears, only that which is grown and transported using petroleum fuels. Then realize that the population which must live without cheap food is 10X or more as large as it was a century ago. Think about this from the perspective of a slum dweller on the outskirts of a large South or Central American city, not that of a wealthy land owner perched in the remote volcanic highlands.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Thu 07 Mar 2019, 13:47:00
by Newfie
dohboi wrote:Here's another type of tipping point that China seems to have passed:

Chinagov confirms: population decline unstoppable

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-46772503


Are you quoting this as a good thing or bad thing?

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2019, 12:20:06
by jupiters_release
Newfie wrote:
onlooker wrote:Newfie, I see Cog as the prototypical Denialist. Denying not so much by refuting the facts but simply refusing to entertain them


I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than those disrupters who invariably drive the discussion to some arcane factoid and scream it disproves all else. Perhaps if Cog were able to entertain the facts he would use his logical brain to process it.

I’ve a few theories about why we have such a persistent denier community. Probably all play a partial role.
Some just can not stand the thought of the possible die off, it is unthinkable.
Some are so caught up in their own hubris they can’t imagjne being wrong.
Some, far too many on both sides of the argument (AOC comes to mind) have not clue one but simply follow their herd thinking.
Some are mentally deranged.

Recently saw an article that said 16% of millennials and not convienced Earth is round, are open to other possibilities or believe in other shapes, E.g. flat Earthers. There is just a uninformed, ignorant, scared, weird fring you will never reach. AWG denialist are running about 23% of the population IIRC. Not too far different.

But I do think AIC with her GND BS has agitated them, put a stick in the bee hive.


Don't know what AIC and GND are but agree with your post. Good to understand that flat earth 'idea' and thermodynamic deniers are intentionally manufactured by policy makers. A confused and ignorant populace is their interest.

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2019, 12:35:13
by onlooker
Newfie meant AOC ALEXANDRA OCASIO CORTES and the Green New Deal. People just sometimes believe what they want to believe

Re: Not just CC-Ecological tipping points

Unread postPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2019, 17:32:22
by jupiters_release
onlooker wrote:Newfie meant AOC ALEXANDRA OCASIO CORTES and the Green New Deal. People just sometimes believe what they want to believe


All bread and circuses, toxic to health and culture.