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This is all related to what Kaiser has stated, that FF are simply to integral to the survival and well being of almost everyone on this planet for us to volutarily abandon them

Ibon wrote:I am a lifetime Platinum member with American Airlines having surpassed 3 million miles already back in 2004 after 20 years of extensive business travel when I sold my business and exited the world of commerce. Now I only get in an airplane once or twice a year for short trips back to the USA but our little reserve here is increasingly becoming a world class destination drawing hundreds to get in airplanes to come visit. So direct or indirect my carbon footprint puts me in the top 1% egregious contributors of the problem. I know that. The irony to own a reserve and share wildlife with folks from all over the world while their travel to get here imperils our biosphere. I can't resolve this.

You're making a meaningful effort. If only several billion people would at least do that, it would be a start.

You can't prevent people from flying by yourself. You can't prevent people from flying internationally for vacations.

As someone who personally hates to travel any significant distance, I'm thankful for people who were willing to do lots of travelling for their career (assuming their job required it, of course). For me, especially after 9/11 and with the lovely TSA, never flying has been a zero brainer decision.

We have no Plan B! Only one plan and we're following it to the very end.

China will be the ascendant power and there is no reasonable way to deny them everything the West took advantage of.

Everyone wants their due, all 7 Billion of us. Well, I left out the few who think we should leave some crumbs on the table.

BS.

How is a rail infrastructure project worse than global warming? Hyperbole, much...

If this was some US initiative we would be listening to a chorus of praise. China does it, then its bad, bad, bad. Gotta keep western sheeple conditioned in their chauvinist reflexes.

Rail can be electrified and powered by energy sources not contributing to global warming. Where are those electrified cargo ships? Those dirty oil burners can each produce the pollution of 50 million cars.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -pollution

What a great post Gasmon !

GASMON wrote:It's the billions of Chinese, Indians etc etc who increasingly DEMAND "The Western Lifestyle" who need to open up their environmental accounting Pstarr.

In global terms what you, me and Outcast etc do is completely and utterly insignificant.

The Chinese are like locusts who devour everything then move on. The're are all over Africa removing its wealth (on a far greater scale than we Brits did last couple of centuries).

Good luck with your new visitors Ibon, the "new" Chinese with wealth are a different animal from the older generations, who do / have work(ed) hard for little material gain.

There's 1.45 Billion Chinese - and again I'll repeat they all DEMAND the western life style. Brave man who will tell them they all can't have it.

As to the BRI - it will be built (actually its already work in progress in Thailand for the last couple of years), then factor in the millions (billions) of other ethnic groups the BRI passes through will want the same. Human nature - can't alter that.

Seal up your mountain Ibon before all the trees have been cut down and they build a take away on the summit !!!

Gas

The "locusts" devour everything because the other "locusts" need them to do that to prop up their own middle class lifestyle.

GASMON wrote:Seal up your mountain Ibon before all the trees have been cut down and they build a take away on the summit !!!

Gas

Guess what folks. The Chinese are just like any other culture, just exponentially more of them. And it is their century. And now we have the first generation of affluent who want to tour the world and go to remote locations. They are not going to destroy this cloud forest. The Chinese are going to extract resources to build their economic juggernaut but keep reserves and refuges intact for the wealthy to retreat to. Just like any other affluent nation.

Our cloud forest is a tourist commodity getting more valuable every year.

We treat all nature like a commodity.

This is a tragic orientation of Kudzu Apes.

GASMON wrote:

Ibon wrote:The Chinese are going to extract resources to build their economic juggernaut but keep reserves and refuges intact for the wealthy to retreat to.

In your dreams Ibon. They will consume everything, then move on. Look what they have / are doing to their own (once beautiful) country. hardly any clean drinking water left, contaminated food, farmland etc.

Quite simply, the Chinese don't give a F***.

Gas

We have to face how resilient the global juggernaut is. We recently hosted a senior executive of Hauwei and his familly. Lovely young Chinese cosmopolitan family. Not at all the stereotype Chinese locust meme that you allude to. This is the generation that follows affluence looking for serenity and looking for holiday in a pristine setting. Remember Japan in the 80's? Everyone thought they were this rapacious force of locusts overtaking the planet with their economic might. And today the Japanese are depopulating and the young generation hardly share their parents ambitious outlook.

If this recent North Korea summit leads to a major change well here we come a few million refrigerators, TV sets and massive amounts of concrete infrastructure projects will follow in North Korea.

We must recognize that this global juggernaut of humanity is resilient and will continue to be so. The planet's natural resources will be plundered at the same time small pockets will be preserved. Those small pockets held as national parks and conservation areas will increase dramatically in value as unprotected areas get raped.

One day our reserve here in Panama with its fresh water and forests will be a haven for the wealthy to come and enjoy. There will be more poor around the world, more destabilizing environmental consequences but make no mistake this juggernaut will not stop.

Kudzu Ape is formidable and Thomas Malthus continues to be wrong and The Overshoot Predator continues to be deep in hibernation.

This is a great 2 minute video of 20 years of our planet breathing with the seasons.

https://www.space.com/40855-changing-ea ... tification

Ii don't mean anything by posting this except to put a little living green into the minds of those so convinced that our enture planet will be turned to concrete and ravaged by kudzu ape locusts.

I find myself slowly growing tired of the dreary apocalyptic orientation regarding our biosphere. At this moment I see nothing in the near or mid term horizon changing our trajectory.

I find myself slowly growing tired of the dreary apocalyptic orientation regarding our biosphere. At this moment I see nothing in the near or mid term horizon changing our trajectory.

Ibon,

I find these statements contradictory. Not trying to argue, I understand the ennui you express. I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong. Neither of us will ever know. Such is life.

Newfie wrote:

I find myself slowly growing tired of the dreary apocalyptic orientation regarding our biosphere. At this moment I see nothing in the near or mid term horizon changing our trajectory.

Ibon,

I find these statements contradictory. Not trying to argue, I understand the ennui you express. I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong. Neither of us will ever know. Such is life.

Compared to what I have been posting the past 10 years quite contradictory! I am all over the map...... either a sign of being deranged or the wisdom that we haven't a clue.

GASMON wrote:
In your dreams Ibon. They will consume everything, then move on. Look what they have / are doing to their own (once beautiful) country. hardly any clean drinking water left, contaminated food, farmland etc.

Quite simply, the Chinese don't give a F***.

Gas

No one does, including those who live in "beautiful" countries. That's because "beauty" was made possible by outsourcing manufacturing and services, which in turn required cheap labor and circumventing expensive measures such as environmental protection in "non-beautiful" countries. Meanwhile, the same "beautiful" countries focused on debt-driven consumer spending, with growing numbers from "non-beautiful" countries following suit, as profits from increased production can only be made through increased sales.

That's why China is a major trading partner of many OECD countries, and the rest of BRICS and dozens of emerging markets are following suit.

Ibon wrote:
We have to face how resilient the global juggernaut is. We recently hosted a senior executive of Hauwei and his familly. Lovely young Chinese cosmopolitan family. Not at all the stereotype Chinese locust meme that you allude to. This is the generation that follows affluence looking for serenity and looking for holiday in a pristine setting. Remember Japan in the 80's? Everyone thought they were this rapacious force of locusts overtaking the planet with their economic might. And today the Japanese are depopulating and the young generation hardly share their parents ambitious outlook.

If this recent North Korea summit leads to a major change well here we come a few million refrigerators, TV sets and massive amounts of concrete infrastructure projects will follow in North Korea.

We must recognize that this global juggernaut of humanity is resilient and will continue to be so. The planet's natural resources will be plundered at the same time small pockets will be preserved. Those small pockets held as national parks and conservation areas will increase dramatically in value as unprotected areas get raped.

One day our reserve here in Panama with its fresh water and forests will be a haven for the wealthy to come and enjoy. There will be more poor around the world, more destabilizing environmental consequences but make no mistake this juggernaut will not stop.

Kudzu Ape is formidable and Thomas Malthus continues to be wrong and The Overshoot Predator continues to be deep in hibernation.

I think senior executives who can afford to travel to exotic locations make up only a fraction of the world's population, where most earn less than $10 a day.

The goal of most is to earn more, and then use that to buy smart phones and many other things. The rich need them to do that so that they can have the money to travel to exotic locations.

Finally, the mainstream assumes that this "juggernaut" won't stop. The catch is that smart phones and many other manufactured goods require oil and material resources that are limited. So unless additional earths can be found (or, ironically, more exotic locations plundered), then that "juggernaut" will eventually grind to a halt.

ralfy wrote:
I think senior executives who can afford to travel to exotic locations make up only a fraction of the world's population, where most earn less than $10 a day.

Most folks really cannot grasp the numbers. Let's say 5% of the chinese population are wealthy enough to do leisure travel. Doesn't sound like much does it?

Well that's 75 million people!

Ibon wrote:Most folks really cannot grasp the numbers. Let's say 5% of the chinese population are wealthy enough to do leisure travel. Doesn't sound like much does it?

Well that's 75 million people!

Don't stop there. You also have to assume that the same 5 pct can continue traveling if more from the 95 pct can do similar. That's because higher pay, promotions, bonuses, etc., needed to travel to more places can only take place if everyone else buys more.

And where will the "global juggernaut" find the additional earths to ensure that?

"And where will the "global juggernaut" find the additional earths to ensure that?" Interesting interchange. Predicting the future is always a tricky endeavor. But one thing is undeniable our impacts as a species are becoming ever more pronounced.