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That wouldn't be Wigan, by any chance?

Of course, I cheated and used wiki.

Here's what really surprised me--coal production there long predates what we think of as the industrial revolution:

The first coal mine was established at Wigan in 1450...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigan

Meanwhile, back in China (and on topic):

Death toll in Tianjin explosions reaches 112; more than 90 still missing

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/15/asia/chin ... xplosions/

Many are understandably infuriated:

Relatives of some of the 95 people missing, mainly firefighters, stormed an official news conference demanding to know the whereabouts of their loved ones.

Families wrote the names of missing people on posters lining a street outside a temporary shelter near the rescue site.

GASMON wrote:It's all on topic, just that China is doing now what we Brits did in the 19th century and the USA did in the 20th. Both the UK & US have had many similar incidents to Tianjin over the years.

When China clears their atmosphere, China's industrial era has ended, as ours did.

Gas

Flixborough springs to mind!

Cog wrote:Perhaps they should create an EPA. Then they would only have to worry about toxic chemicals in streams and not in the air.

Now conservatives will be trotting that out for decades, just like Solyndria. Nobody's track record is perfect. I'd rather have an EPA than NO EPA.

As usual, cog is just talking out of his orifice.

China does, in fact, have the rough equivalent of our 'EPA'--in fact it was called "State EPA" up until 2008, at which point they changed the official name to Ministry of Environmental Protection of the People's Republic of China (MEP for short), probably partly so it wouldn't look like they were so slavishly copying US structures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_ ... c_of_China

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/14/world ... .html?_r=0
We have already talking about this. I think this is a new study. The problem of air pollution really is tremendous there.

onlooker wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/14/world/asia/study-links-polluted-air-in-china-to-1-6-million-deaths-a-year.html?_r=0
We have already talking about this. I think this is a new study. The problem of air pollution really is tremendous there.

The population is really what is tremendous in China. The study says 1.6 million die every year due to pollution. 4,400 people die every day because of pollution. Wow, guess how much of a percentage this is of the total population of China? Well, 1.6 million deaths of 1.5 billion inhabitants = .1% of the population. That is 1/10 of 1 %

Now, in the US heart disease kills 596,000 a year. Our population is 318 million. So heart disease kills about .2% of the population. Not 2% but 0.2%

As a percentage of the total population pollution kills less Chinese than heart disease kills Americans.

Just trying to put this into perspective a little.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... ord-levels
At this rate I think China per capita mortality from air pollution may rival that of heart disease in US

onlooker wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/09/airpocalypse-now-china-pollution-reaching-record-levels
At this rate I think China per capita mortality from air pollution may rival that of heart disease in US

Believe it or not heart disease and diabetes are directly related to air pollution in particular to aerosol (PM2.5) pollution. So China is going to have a huge surge of such metabolism-associated diseases.

Well interesting will it be diagnosed as death by air pollution or by heart disease. As one leads to the other.

Well, if we want to play with numbers, lets look at trends.

The estimate in 2007 for deaths from outdoor pollution in China was 400,000 per year (at the high end).

So if deaths from this source have quadrupled to 1.6 million in eight years (which may well be a low-ball figure), and we project that forward another 16 years, we get 12.2 million premature deaths by about 2030 from this one source (but somebody should check my math, since it's late and I'm a bit foggy headed).

Another 16 years, and you get about 100 million people dying prematurely every year from this one cause. And that doesn't count the much higher number of people crippled or incapacitated by asthma and other respiratory (and related) diseases. And don't forget that this falls particularly heavily on children (have you ever tried to keep a face mask on a small child?).

Only 1% of the country’s 560 million city dwellers breathe air considered safe by the European Union, because all of its major cities are constantly covered in a "toxic gray shroud".

I suspect the mortality and illness rates are still vast underestimates. My brother, who when stateside is generally in perfect health, frequently goes to China. Every single time he goes, he gets asthma (unless he is doing field work in remote parts of Tibet, for example).

And of course the numbers would also be much higher if people weren't constantly wearing masks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35023995
Thought I would put this link here even though it is about India, as you can say the pollution problems are very similar in both India and China, they are having huge problems with air quality.

There was recently a graphic posted that showed an active map of the world showing where pollution was highest through time. Most pollution hot spots (=cities) pulse stronger then weaker then back...over time. One of the few that stayed pretty much the deepest shade of black the whole time was New Delhi.

But the size of the dot was much smaller than those over Beijing and many other cities (tho that is no consolation to those living in the middle of that city, sometimes called the most polluted in the world.

ETA: And that's the capitol, where all the decision makers meet. If they can't do something about it even when it is a constant reminder and threat to them personally, I shudder to think how they can respond effectively to the generally more distant threats of GW.

dohboi - The "silver lining": that's almost 1.5 million fewer potential car buyers every year. But I doubt enough to take away China's current title of being the largest ICE buyer on the planet. They really need to up the mortality rate quit a bit if it's going to do any good.

but I thought we wanted more people to die so that the planet can be saved. Surely this is good news

dohboi wrote:Here's what really surprised me--coal production there long predates what we think of as the industrial revolution:

The first coal mine was established at Wigan in 1450...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigan

Offhand, this sounds consistent with the fact that China invented gunpowder.

It's amazing how the relative power/knowledge of countries changes over time.

China wasn't as far ahead of the rest of the world as, say, the golden age of Greece 2500 years ago to -- "we can't pay our bills and it's everyone else's fault", as is the case today. Or, China from being way ahead in some technology 500+ years ago to struggling to emerge as a first world economy by, largely, copying/stealing all the tech. they can acquire today, and not dealing at all well overall with their huge population, and its global impact (like pollution).

Yes, the Chinese found modern capitalism, at least their version of it.