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European Coal Power Plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 00:32:55by Plantagenet
Thanks Europe.
Why not pick the absolutely worst power systems to build that you can in terms of CO2 pollution. Oh thats right.....you already are.
The EU's 50 new coal-fired power plants promise decades of new CO2 pollution.
Let us know when the North Sea starts flooding lowlands areas in Flanders and Holland and around Venice.....
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 00:46:59by dohboi
Thanks, Plantagenet, for making me even more depressed than I was from the news that the tundras are thawing and releasing their CH4, and that the US and Korea are working together on schemes to mine hydrates at the bottom of the ocean that are likely to set of the "clathrate gun."
I really would rather not be a doomer, but it's getting pretty hard to avoid.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 01:34:30by Tyler_JC
I saw that article too.
Unbelievable.
And we get lectured about Kyoto...
In 2006, US CO2 emissions fell by .3% (not nearly enough to make a difference but it's a start), in Europe emissions ROSE by 1.8%.
In the years between 2000 and 2006, Europe's emissions rose by more than 1% per year, America's emissions rose by only .4% per year.
Both need to reduce their emissions but it's clear that the Europeans are not blameless on this one.
Source
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 02:06:00by americandream
Tyler_JC wrote:I saw that article too.
Unbelievable.
And we get lectured about Kyoto...
In 2006, US CO2 emissions fell by .3% (not nearly enough to make a difference but it's a start), in Europe emissions ROSE by 1.8%.
In the years between 2000 and 2006, Europe's emissions rose by more than 1% per year, America's emissions rose by only .4% per year.
Both need to reduce their emissions but it's clear that the Europeans are not blameless on this one.
Source
What have I been telling you about the Euros all along....they're bloody useless!
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 02:13:59by seldom_seen
They are aghast at the renaissance of coal, a fuel more commonly associated with the sooty factories of Dickens novels, and one that was on its way out just a decade ago.
The industrial revolution in reverse. Predicted on these forums for many moons. Unfortunately, next in line is the wholesale leveling of standing forests for cooking and heating.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 02:18:20by americandream
Tyler_JC wrote:I saw that article too.
Unbelievable.
And we get lectured about Kyoto...
In 2006, US CO2 emissions fell by .3% (not nearly enough to make a difference but it's a start), in Europe emissions ROSE by 1.8%.
In the years between 2000 and 2006, Europe's emissions rose by more than 1% per year, America's emissions rose by only .4% per year.
Both need to reduce their emissions but it's clear that the Europeans are not blameless on this one.
Source
So much for Kyoto.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 03:42:35by nemo
Sonofabitch. I guess this is what happens when you don't have a unified energy policy. Finland goes nuclear, Italy and Germany goes "OMG ATOMS!" and chose the dirtiest power source imaginable.
Italy is Europe's Mexico, so that's their excuse I suppose, but Germany should know better, seriously. I don't get it. They're really metodish and progressive about wind and solar and still make a dick move like this out of irrational fission fear. I'm not blind to the problems of nukes, but it beats nasty nasty coal, that's for sure.
Then there's the British. Since they're, well, British, this is to be expected. Vive la France.
Edit: as for Kyoto: yeah, this sucks, Europe sucks. We suck. But I can't help to feel that things could have turned out differently if, you know, all the other major players hadn't decided to completely ignore the issue and piss all over the treaty from the get-go. Some real leadership from North America could have made a difference in this case is my suspicion. That still leaves China out, but it would have been better nonetheless.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 03:59:26by jato
Entropyfails was dead on: Our current economic system will eat the planet.
We are going to burn every fossil fuel we can get a hold of. The
Jay Hanson in me expects nothing less.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 07:28:04by FourOfSwords
Coal is King. Always has been, always will be...till we choke on the sulphurous air we're gonna breath.
Alex
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 08:50:10by KingDavid
We are, like allways, indecisive. The socs, the greens and the free markists planned (2001) to close the nuke-plants beginning in 2015. Thus windmillparks were going to be build in the Nordsea (2 of them should be around 300 megawatt production). The construction has been delayed and delayed, now the fully operational park should be online in 2016. So the new gov (flemish: free markists, catholics and walloons: free markists, catholics and socs) wants the nucleair plants to remain open for a longer time (now 57% of our elektricity usage has a nucleair origin). And some economists are screaming for more n-plants in the future. So i guess we will go nucleair, but as the last of the class. Belgium is like the fat kid that can't keep up.......
The only solution is a great powerdown but no one wants to here that dreadful word.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 09:44:47by Cabrone
If you are expecting Europe to lead the way then you may as well go and crawl into the oven now.
Anyway we're pretty well screwed now whatever happens so you may aswell enjoy the party while it lasts.
Anyone for popcorn?
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 11:28:10by Ainan
Plantagenet wrote:Thanks Europe.
Why not pick the absolutely worst power systems to build that you can in terms of CO2 pollution. Oh thats right.....you already are.
Oh haven't you heard? Oil is running out!
Um... maybe they will use carbon capture technology? Utopia is just around the corner after all.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:02:08by Plantagenet
Ainan wrote:Plantagenet wrote:Thanks Europe.
Why not pick the absolutely worst power systems to build that you can in terms of CO2 pollution. Oh thats right.....you already are.
Oh haven't you heard? Oil is running out! .
Oh haven't you heard? Coal is the absolute worst way to make electricity---it releases far more CO2 then any other power system.
Thats what the Kyoto Treaty was about....oh, thats right....those EU promises to cut CO2 were all lies.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 16:19:53by EnergyUnlimited
Germans must build more coal fired plants as a backup to unreliable wind capacity.
That means, more windmill capacity equals more coal fired plants until coal last.
NB. It will be a clean coal.
They will be washing every bit with detergent, before burning it up.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr 2008, 17:31:24by Ludi
seldom_seen wrote: next in line is the wholesale leveling of standing forests for cooking and heating.
The new Charcoal Boom!
*cough cough*
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Fri 25 Apr 2008, 06:01:21by Slowpoke
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Germans must build more coal fired plants as a backup to unreliable wind capacity.
That means, more windmill capacity equals more coal fired plants until coal last.
Yea, I mean, who could've believed that wind is an intermittent, unreliable, wildly varying in output resource?
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Thu 01 May 2008, 15:48:57by holmes
seldom_seen wrote:They are aghast at the renaissance of coal, a fuel more commonly associated with the sooty factories of Dickens novels, and one that was on its way out just a decade ago.
The industrial revolution in reverse. Predicted on these forums for many moons. Unfortunately, next in line is the wholesale leveling of standing forests for cooking and heating.
There was once a time when there were no forests east of the mississipi. The tannin industry was a big reason. Find some photos of the east during the tanning industry. The streams and rivers ran red, the prime soils were lost then and it was a mangled moonscape. Look at those photos and you will see what is coming. But far worse. I stood in forests near the exact spot where those old photos were taken it was such a contrast. They litterally destroyed the land. What is there is but a shell of what the pilgrims saw when they landed. We think things are beautiful now in the multiply high graded shrubbery that is there now. That is what "nature" is now. It WAS AWE inspiring and absolutely grandiose. The american Dream. The American dream was the wilderness. People do not even understand that. That is where the dream originates. Not some man made neoclasical economic snake PONZI scam theory. The dream was stripped mined and denuded long ago.
The other fun fact showing the inbreeding of the early european Americans was that they would cut down the fruit and nut trees to get the crop. Move on and find another. Can one imagine the bounty and spectacle that once was American? Mind blowing.
Re: Europeans now building 50 new coal-fired power plants
Posted:
Fri 02 May 2008, 05:16:59by cube
European countries are expected to put into operation about 50 coal-fired plants over the next five years,
In other words within 5 years using coal, Europe will install 10 times the electrical production equivalent of all wind mills installed for the past 20 years.
I always had a gut feeling wind power could not be "scaled up".
Re: European Coal Power Plants
Posted:
Fri 06 Mar 2015, 11:26:21by Tanada
[sarc]Great job EU![/sarc] More at the link.
The UK is one of several European governments allowing energy industry representatives to help draw up the European Union’s (EU) new air pollution standards, a Greenpeace investigation has found.
The EU is currently in the process of drafting new standards to limit pollution from coal-fired power stations. However, this “once-in-a-decade opportunity” has been captured by the coal industry Greenpeace claims and could result in “extremely lax” emission limits.
“Not only would most of the existing plants be allowed to pollute several times more than could be achieved by adopting the best clean technologies available,” the environmental NGO said, “but EU standards would also be significantly weaker than those imposed in other parts of the world, including China.”
Greenpeace analysed the backgrounds of hundreds of representatives appointed by governments to sit on a key official group that is formulating new limits on air pollution across Europe.
Industry Representatives
It found that out of 352 members of the technical working group, 183 are either employed by the energy companies that are being regulated or by lobby groups that represent those companies.
“This means, that the polluters are designing the regulations intended to govern their own industry,” Greenpeace said. “Europe is allowing the polluters to set their own standards.”
Seven EU countries in particular are responsible for the vast majority of comments seeking to weaken the emission limits: Poland, Czech Republic, Greece, Germany, France, Spain and the UK.
http://www.desmog.uk/2015/03/05/eu-allo ... -standards