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bochen777 wrote:

Outcast_Searcher wrote:

jedrider wrote:I suspect that the Chinese engineers used historical data to figure out how to control flooding.

It's fairly safe to bet that when the Three Gorges Dam was designed and started, the Chinese engineers didn't BEGIN to know what we know today about global warming (just like 99.9% of the rest of the world). It's also highly likely that those engineers don't manage day to day (or season to season) decisions on flood management.

Short wet dream is for Trump to tactical nuke the dam, thats why he is always talking about it collapsing and killing 400 million Chinese.... he pretends to care about Chinese citizens.... laughable...


Short aka Real Green may get his wish soon

https://forum.ascendchina.ch/t/americas ... n-earth/85

Yeah, that's it. If science, logic, facts, etc. don't bolster the insta-doom scenario, be SURE and bring wild conspiracy theory fantasies into it. That makes you super duper credible.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:

jedrider wrote:I suspect that the Chinese engineers used historical data to figure out how to control flooding.

It's fairly safe to bet that when the Three Gorges Dam was designed and started, the Chinese engineers didn't BEGIN to know what we know today about global warming

Exactly right. Thats the point I've been making all along.

The Three Gorges Dam was designed for the climate that existed in central China during the 20th century. But we are now moving into a new climate regime and central China is getting much more rain then it used to get.

Under the new, modern global warming climate regime severe problems have developed.

1. So much rain fell during the 2020 rainy season that that dam reservoir level rose to a level close to maximum dam capacity.

2. The Chinese engineers in charge of the dam failed to lower the reservoir enough BEFORE the rainy season to accommodate all the water flowing into the reservoir, forcing them to release so much water from the dam that they flooded cites and huge areas downstream, killing hundreds of people and causing billions of dollars of damage.

No doubt the Chinese will try to adjust to the new warmer and wetter climate but the problem here is that climate is going to get even warmer and wetter as we go forward, making these problems even worse.

The Three Gorges dam is a fascinating example of how climate change can booger things up in all kinds of unexpected ways.

CHEERS!!

Plantagenet wrote:No doubt the Chinese will try to adjust to the new warmer and wetter climate but the problem here is that climate is going to get even warmer and wetter as we go forward, making these problems even worse.

The Three Gorges dam is a fascinating example of how climate change can booger things up in all kinds of unexpected ways.

Excellent points. And scary, given the potential costs and risks of too little action (everywhere, with MANY AGW consequences), and meanwhile, the financial pressures caused by ongoing short term thinking, of the vast majority of countries likely GREATLY limit what they WILL spend vs. what they SHOULD spend, on trying to deal with the problem, IMO.

And not that this is surprising -- pick any of a hundred or so serious and obvious problems like pollution, population, food supply and safety, medical issues, the military, education, and on and on, and you get pretty much the same thing many, many times and places (again, IMO).

Given how much JUST dealing with population growth would mitigate the VAST majority of the other big problems over time, it just shows how hapless humanity is re meaningfully planning ahead.

If we were bacteria or chickens, at least we'd have an excuse. As humans, NOT SO MUCH.

I just found out the Three Gorges Dam is still standing! I thought it was supposed to crumble down months ago because the Chinese are so stupid, ignorant, and corrupt that they couldn't possibly design and build the biggest dam in the world without our help, and not have it collapse. I am extremely disappointed with the Chinese; I have been waiting for months for hundreds of millions of Chinese to die for nothing! They are all still there! How dare they?

"Three Gorges Project passes all tests"
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1205351.shtml

JuanP wrote:I just found out the Three Gorges Dam is still standing!
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1205351.shtml

JuanP, global times is a nutter site.

The dam has done untold damage to China so bureaucrats can pat themselves on the back. You are glorifying this trash.

REAL Green wrote:

JuanP wrote:I just found out the Three Gorges Dam is still standing!
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1205351.shtml

JuanP, global times is a nutter site.

The dam has done untold damage to China so bureaucrats can pat themselves on the back. You are glorifying this trash.

So you have credible sites showing how the dam is not standing?

Or how it has NOT generated lots of power?

Or how it has killed 400ish MILLION people while collapsing, like the doomer patrol kept maintaining throughout much of 2020? DO TELL!

Some damage just sounds SO MUCH better when clowns like you call it "untold damage", letting you pretend it's horrendous, but provide NOT STAT ONE.

Congrats.

I know it's hard for your uneducated, prevaricating ilk to grasp this, but having some problems is NOT total doom.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:.... having some problems is NOT total doom.

Of course not.

But when those problems are related to ongoing climate change, then its time to re-evaluate the status quo and start to plan for the effects of the changing climate. It might not be "total doom" right now, but as climate continues to change things can get worse and worse.

For instance, when forest fires just get larger and larger and the fire season gets longer and longer every year, its time to take a deep breath and admit that global climate change is causing an increase in forest fires.....and its just going to get worse.

And something similar is going on at the Three Gorges dam in central China. Climate Change is causing the climate regime in central China to change, and they are getting much more rain then was expected. They got so much rain the dam engineers were forced to release huge amounts of water downstream causing flooding in cities along the river. Its time to take a deep breath and admit that global climate change is causing central china to get more rain then before.....and its just going to get worse.

Cheers!

Plantagenet wrote:For instance, when forest fires just get larger and larger and the fire season gets longer and longer every year,

Why is california burning every year? Isn't that stuff all burnt down by now? Is it growing back as fast as it's burning?
I would think at some point there's some equilibrium?

Outcast_Searcher wrote:So you have credible sites showing how the dam is not standing? Or how it has NOT generated lots of power? Or how it has killed 400ish MILLION people while collapsing, like the doomer patrol kept maintaining throughout much of 2020? DO TELL! Some damage just sounds SO MUCH better when clowns like you call it "untold damage", letting you pretend it's horrendous, but provide NOT STAT ONE. Congrats.
I know it's hard for your uneducated, prevaricating ilk to grasp this, but having some problems is NOT total doom.

Geeze, what a moron. Did I say anything about the engineering of the dam or that is was in imminent failure? No, but what you did is what people like you do and make the false conversation as if I said it. You are just a squirt who thinks he knows it all and it is all anti-doom bla bla bla. Big dams destroy the environment and human culture. The size of the Three Gorges magnifies that an order of magnitude. Got it?

mousepad wrote:Why is california burning every year?

Because its very hot and dry there and the forests dry out and burn.

mousepad wrote: Isn't that stuff all burnt down by now?

By "stuff" I assume you mean trees?

No, the trees aren't all burnt down yet.

mousepad wrote:Is it growing back as fast as it's burning?

No.

mousepad wrote:I would think at some point there's some equilibrium?

Yes but not necessarily for the current forests.

As the climate warms the current forest ecosystem becomes more and more susceptible to burning. Eventually a new ecosystem will become established where the forests were. This may be a grassland or perhaps a dry rocky desert ecosystem, like those that currently exist in Baja California.



Cheers!

Plantagenet wrote: Eventually a new ecosystem will become established!

Here we go. So what's the big fuss? Ecosystem goes, another one comes.

mousepad wrote:

Plantagenet wrote:For instance, when forest fires just get larger and larger and the fire season gets longer and longer every year,

Why is california burning every year? Isn't that stuff all burnt down by now? Is it growing back as fast as it's burning?
I would think at some point there's some equilibrium?

No, it is not all burnt down yet. Give it twenty years and it'll be gone. (My uneducated guess, though.)

jedrider wrote:

mousepad wrote:

Plantagenet wrote:For instance, when forest fires just get larger and larger and the fire season gets longer and longer every year,

Why is california burning every year? Isn't that stuff all burnt down by now? Is it growing back as fast as it's burning?
I would think at some point there's some equilibrium?

No, it is not all burnt down yet. Give it twenty years and it'll be gone. (My uneducated guess, though.)

If we tried to far more intelligently manage it, that might help. Like parts of Europe is doing, where there are plenty of forest access roads, good fire breaks, brush is handled reasonably, etc. so that a fire doesn't become a huge uncontrolled event, but just clears out area X.

Now, of course, that costs MONEY and takes planning and effort, so whether the US would be willing to do something like that (even in certain designated areas, as a start), I have my doubts. At least until serious AGW effects get blindingly obvious to even most of the denier crowd.

But the Forest Service has a policy of closing roads. And, they don't properly maintain the ones they leave open. Well, they do, and they don't. You can go from one area of regulation to another and see some pretty big differences. Those differences can be in response to the local economy, or hunting, something like that usually. Where there are more luxury homes, the kind that cost a lot more to lose in a fire, the Forest Service is probably more inclined to keep people out unless they go on foot.

Back to the thread's subject:"Three Gorges Project certified as completed, fully functional"
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-1 ... 488715.htm

These f*%#ing Chinese don't know how to properly collapse a dam! I am extremely disappointed; I want the human population to be reduced ASAP. I have been promised many times by many stupid, ignorant, arrogant, deluded fools that China was going to collapse at any moment, but it just keeps not happening. I am sick and tired of waiting for China to collapse! How many more decades will the Chinese make me wait for their long awaited and much expected collapse? I can't take this any more!

mousepad wrote:So what's the big fuss? Ecosystem goes, another one comes.

The big fuss is that parts of our infrastructure are designed for the current ecosystems and aren't easily adopted to "another" ecosystem.

For instance in China the Three Gorges Dam was designed to be safe based on the existing precipitation records.

But in 2020 central China saw record precipitation and the Three Gorges Dam had to release huge amounts of water, flooding cities downstream. More climate change likely means even worse flooding.

In California the forest ecotone is apparently out of equilibrium with the current climate.....its too hot and too dry and we're seeing massive forest fires. More claim change likely means even more fires.

And, even more worrying, ecosystem change in agricultural areas is already starting to cut into food production. More climate change likely means more reductions in food supply.

etc. etc.

CHEERS!

Plantagenet wrote:And, even more worrying, ecosystem change in agricultural areas is already starting to cut into food production.

Where? There's record crop yield left and right.

Aquifer depletion seems to be a bigger issue than a little balmier climate. Aquifer depletion was an issue for midwest and CA and china and india and many other places way before global warming was a thing.

mousepad wrote:

Plantagenet wrote:And, even more worrying, ecosystem change in agricultural areas is already starting to cut into food production.

Where?

One place to be concerned about is the American mid-west. Increased precipitation in the midwest is causing record floods that impact and reduce some crop production.

climate-change-and-agriculture

midwest-floods-linked-to-climate-change-are-devastating-us-farms

You do remember the record floods that hit the midwest last summer, don't you? It was all over the news for most of the spring.

CHEERS!

So we have BOTH record floods and aquifer depletion.

And
Tired soil
Reliance upon unconventional oil
Massive disruption due some relatively minor virus
India with 4 times our population and our arable acreage
China with Indias population and 1/4 our arable acreage

What could go wrong?

Newfie wrote:So we have BOTH record floods and aquifer depletion.

And
Tired soil
Reliance upon unconventional oil
Massive disruption due some relatively minor virus
India with 4 times our population and our arable acreage
China with Indias population and 1/4 our arable acreage

What could go wrong?

Yeah, but what's the timeframe?
I hear horror stories about depleting soil and aquifer for 30 years now.
Yet there's relentless population growth and record harvests.