Peak Oil News and Message Boards

I'm thinking about a honda civic (and NOT the hybrid), it gets 35-40 mpg for around 15K. I figure I can trade in for a better car in a few years and the car will hold a good value due to demand for high mpg cars.

Parallel hybrids are a transitional technology, but depending on how fast the crash is, it might be the end of the road in technology if the plugins and BEVs never make it to market.

So you have to decide whether to buy into a vehicle that is still dependent on gas, because it's available NOW, or hold out for a vehicle that won't burn gas unless you go beyond the plugin range, but may never materialize.

Several articles indicate that the new Prius will not have lithium ion batteries the first year. Hyundai has been putting in lots of work on their own hybrid technology and promise the next gen Sonata and Elantra 2011 models released in 2010 will have lithium ion or even lithium polymer batteries. The latest I've read indicates the Elantra will be a plug in.

The value of waiting or buying now depends more on your financial situation and commute distance. I agree that in most areas you would pay retail for a Prius today.

Some good ideas and thoughts.

Does anyone know if you can convert a prius to use flexfuel? Again, I was thinking about distilling my own ethanol.

If the crash happens to fast, then its TEOTWAWKI........and it does not really matter what we do.

But we have to hope for the best, while we plan for the worst.

Nissan is targetting 2010 for its debut of Kithium-ion batteries. See EE Times Asia

mmasters wrote:I'm thinking about a honda civic (and NOT the hybrid), it gets 35-40 mpg for around 15K.

The hybrid version goes for ~$21k or so (may be higher now).

I figure I can trade in for a better car in a few years and the car will hold a good value due to demand for high mpg cars.

These cars will definitely hold value and will likely increase. If one can buy one now, and resell it to get an Aptera or other much higher mpg car, that sounds like an excellent strategy. Ignore what the Blue Book says right now on older hybrids; with oil at $134/bbl, their value has skyrocketed. In fact, if you can only afford a used one, get it now before they're all snatched up (or the owners raise the prices).

Your avatar suggests a Durango 95 would be horrorshow, oh my droogy.

[spoil]You will find out that due to high demand, there is a waiting list a Prius. They do not have to drop price. [/spoil]

Wrong.

You call up 4 toyota dealers. You say to each one, I'm going to buy a Prius with package X, I don't care about the color. I'm ready to come down now and sign the papers and commit to this deal. What's your best price?

Get the number, call other dealers and say you'll give them your business rather than the 1st guy if they'll knock 400 bucks off the price, and so on.

Dealers want to sell a lot of cars.

If, for example, they can lock you in with a deposit/commitment this month, then they may get extra bonus incentive this month based on sales.

In any event, you are a sucker until you decide to stop being one.

I ALWAYS get a great price because, 1 - I come in ready to buy - no window shopping bullshit. 2 - I'm flexible with unimportant crap like color that matters to small thinkers. 3 - I understand that, for items that you can buy from various places and for which profit is not fixed, you can ALWAYS deal.

Good luck.

1. Small diesel engine equip. cars like you can see in the EU will remain to be banned from the US market for at least a couple more years and even then diesel will be semi-rationed and/or outbid from the J6P passanger fleet anyway for agriculture/gov/security/core industries purposes etc..

2. The price schock at the pump in comming years will be more pronnounced in the US because of your low gas tax and other factors and still no alternatives on the car market.

3. Unlike IMA system in Honda hybrids, Priuses can be much "easily" hacked diy style for plugin hybrid, be it even in a cheapo lead-sled fashion. With $6-10-15gallon price this will make for a good investment in comming years. The lead battery industry has giant production base and we can bet these batteries will be available in comming 1-2decades..

4. Massproduced EVs are still far away, and the first mostly asian model generation will be in the small city car segment - much lower utility in comparison to that 4door/hatch Prius

5. Considering the fact that Prius &rebate sells in the US at so much DISCOUNTED PRICE in comparsion to the rest of the world it's a nobrainer..

=> !so get toyota hybrid technology based car NOW (any gen2 Prius and/or newer and consider yourself to be lucky to have one..

In the meantime and in addition to hypermilling techniques readup on the diy plugin hacks so you get familiar with the performance options as well as nuts&bolts of such a project..

Oh my Brother's, for a Durango 95, I would give up the "Ole In and Out" and the viddy!!!!

What a class machine for a droogy to style in!! LOL

Righty right.

AlexdeLarge wrote:Oh my Brother's, for a Durango 95, I would give up the "Ole In and Out" and the viddy!!!!

What a class machine for a droogy to style in!! LOL

You could mount a .50 caliber on the roof if your style tends toward a bit of the old Ultraviolence.

Talked with a another Toyota Dealer. The price is the price...take it or leave it. Already have waiting lists for those ones coming in. If you want a certain color or package, it would be the end of July.

Price is fixed. The cool Prius ,with all the bells and whistles (Package 6), is $28,529.00 This dealer told me that corporate said that there would be no price increases put on the car by the dealers due to the higher demand, but no need to drop the price either. He has heard some dealers are putting addendums on the cars to covertly increase the price because the market is paying it!! Business 101!

In this area, which consists of 172 dealers......the cars are allocated among the dealers based on past sales. Currently, to be split up among the 172 dealers(Based on their sales) are: 451 Priuses, 382 Yaris, 50 Scion, 4500 camry, 3071 Corollas.

So it is possible to bargain on the corollas and camry, but not on the rest!

The hybrid Corolas get very good gas mileage too. You may want to check them out.

GeoJAP wrote:The hybrid Corolas get very good gas mileage too. You may want to check them out.

Can you provide reliable links for them? When is Toyota promising to field a hybrid Corolla?

If your current vehicle is paid for its nearly impossible to come out ahead by buying a better milage one.

If your current vehicle is not, then the only way to find out whats the most cost effective is to sit down and crunch numbers. Period.

Me? I would wait for a plug in. Theres going to be a rash of really cool new efficient cars in the next few years I bet.

Why has no one thought to make their own EV?Hubby bought a hull of a Spitfire for a street rod.Now he is going to make an EV from it.He has done research and for about 7 grand you can get what amounts to a kit to build one.He is making it a project though and buying bits at a time cause he just likes to do stuff that way.We just like Spits but you could use a sedan too.I couldn't make myself go into debt for 28 grand.That's half of what my house cost!Best of luck 2U tho.

Just called the local Toyota dealer and talked to the sales manager. They're not taking any orders on 2009s as they have no information on costs, options, timelines, etc. He figures it will be September at least before they get the go-ahead.

By all indications, it looks like the plug-in will be 2010.

AlexdeLarge wrote:Good Morning !

Considering buying the 2008 Prius. Whats your thoughts in todays market? Toyota does not have to bargain at all in this market as people are trading in their SUV's to go to a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Considerations are that SUV's are dropping in value, and demand plus cost of raw materials is growing....cost/price of Prius is going up!

However, there may be some new tax incentives this year and detroit is finally gearing up to go into the market in a big way. (Maybe still three years out.) Honda is also making new plans.

Would it be worth waiting for the new lythium ion battery technology and plug in features.( 2010 models) I also don't think that the 08 Prius can use flexfuel. Therefore, my thoughts of making my own ethanol at home would go down the drain.

Any thoughts???

Thanks!

So your part of the problem??? Why buy a Toyota? The American economy is failing and you want to buy a Japanese car? All the profits from that car go to Japan? Why not a Ford or Chevy Hybrid? Do you know 1 out of 5 jobs in the US have something to do with the Auto industry? Does yours? How about your neighbors?

Support American companies today or you wont have a job to buy gas for that car tomorrow...

Ah yes Twilly, the old "buy American" line of horseshit.

I did that a few times.

I bought a Ford.

Biggest piece of shit on 4 wheels I ever owned - and it wasn't even close.

So, if you REALLY want to help America, don't buy a G-d damned thing made in this country unless it is high quality.

Looking back, my multiple Ford purchases only helped to keep overpaid workers in a job making shitty cars.

If you're a real American, and you really want to send a message to Ford, don't buy one until they stop making shit roll.