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in reply to CFL queries
- multiple brands, multiple fixture types, multiple inverters (AC sources)
- most attempted uses was in gooseneck or articulated-arm mounted fixtures
- CFL's wouldn't work at all in specific fixtures ('makes no sense')
- In all others, they would last from minutes to hours (of usage)
- I've tried at least 2 dozen bulbs in maybe 8 fixtures and never got one to last more than a few brief uses.
- The WalMart CFL's were worst of all. With those, I spent more time changing bulbs (excluding 'recycling') than they operated.


Modified-sine inverters are highly problematic for many application types and especially so with audio-video (and medical) equipment.
Modern true-sine inverters are more expensive to purchase (2-4x per W) but in my experience these last much longer and are generally more efficient as well as equipment friendly. I can recommend the Trace/Xantrex line of "ProSine" inverters as being very stable and reliable (and pricey).

Modified sine wave inverters (xantrex and outback) are very nearly as good as "true sine" inverters and are the most common - mine is a 4024SW. Can't say I'd see a reason to go with the very expensive true sine type. Cheap inverters are typically square wave or clunky stepped modified sine (you ought to see em on a oscilloscope!) and I would imagine could cause problems. Trace DR series were an example of the low end stepped wave. I have never had problems with high end modified wave inverters (such as the xantrex SW series) other than a minor hum from the ceiling fans. I have had no problems with home appliances and none whatsoever with home electronics as most of them use a switched power supply or wall wart and are running DC internally anyways. What medical equipment have you had problems with?

Your experience with CFL's sounds really abnormal. I have several friends who are off grid and none have had issues with their CFL's either so I wouldn't think it had anything to do with the inverter - one of my friends even uses a Trace DR as his primary. Perhaps you have an unusual electrical problem? Ground fault loops or other odd situation? Maybe a problem with the fixture?

While I do see variance in the lifespan of various CFL's mostly due to quality control I imagine, I have never seen any go out that quickly.

-G

LEDS are not particularly power efficient compared to other light sources per lux. They can have a very very long lifespan and are fantastic in situations where its inconvenient for a light source to be a consumable item .
However they don't like excessive current so to make them last it's best to drive them with slightly less than their rated current, this can have a dramatic impact on longevity. Over driving leds increases their brightness at the expense of lifespan. a small increase in current shortens lifespan considerably, as does heat so make sure to use an adequate heat sink for those big Cree types.

CFL's like a nice clean power supply and don't like being switched on and off a lot, a bit like regular tubes this stresses them a bit. its best to leave them on for long periods as they are quite efficient anyway.

fox wrote:LEDS are not particularly power efficient compared to other light sources per lux.

That's not true at all. As I posted above, the reason many LED *bulbs* are less efficient then they could be, is that LEDs are unlike all other common light sources in that they produce directional light only, but bulbs have to be designed to shine in all directions to work properly in current fixtures made with incandescents and florescents in mind.

When you use LEDs properly as directional lighting, they are the top of the heap in efficiency.

If I was to build a new house, I would plan for LED lighting throughout (probably 12 v at that and off-grid).

As I have an old house the cost of rewiring is too great (as LED lights should be used in different ways to CFL lights). Now most rooms have a mixture...a CFL in the main socket for general lighting and LED lights for reading lamps/bedside lights etc. The exception is we have a couple of unheated sets of stairs for which I have bought expensive LED general lights as CFL lights take for ever to give out light in a cold environment.

To give you another data point, I got a bunch of 40-watt, 60-watt and 75-watt incandescent bulbs that have been replaced with CFLs rated for 60-watt, 75-watt and 100-watts equivalent of lumens, respectively. Those 100-watt CFLs are incredibly luminous for the 23-watts that they use.

I've also replaced a bunch of older CFLs with new CFLs because the newer bulbs give off a whiter light. I actually prefer them to incandescent now except for the incandescent flood lights that I have -- guess I should look for CFLs for this, but finding flood CFLs that are dimmable as well, I just haven't seen any in the stores.

There is no excuse not to change over given that the energy companies often subsidize the CFL prices so you get each bulb for about $1. The only drawback has been the slow startup time, but this has improved markedly as well and in many applications it is no longer a problem.

The CFLs that I've had have lasted most of the time that I've used them, 4-6 years, except for a few. Dimmable CFLs are great but hard to find; I haven't tried mail order yet.

Overall, maybe I save enough electricity to make up for all the energy consumed running the computer so often

in some areas of northern italy you can see led lightings on the roads. they're ok, tay're not weak, their light is very very white. and i think they use very little electricity.so just wait a couple of years and you'll be able to find led bulbs in supermarkets.

Compact fluorescent (or CFL) bulbs may currently be the dominant alternative to traditional incandescent light bulbs, but there's still a strong contingent betting on LEDs as the true long term replacement. One of the major players in that camp is Cree, which recently teamed up with TESS and Dean Kamen's FIRST organization to have kids distribute LED light bulbs like Girl Scout cookies (seriously), and is now showing off what is says is the "first no-compromise replacement for a 60-watt incandescent bulb." That bulb is dimmable, and emits a "beautiful, warm, incandescent-like color of 2700 K," while delivering more than 800 lumens and consuming less than 10 watts (meeting the Energy Star requirements for a 60-watt standard LED replacement bulb). Unfortunately, there's one big catch -- the bulb is still just a prototype, and Cree says it hasn't yet decided how it will bring it to market, or how much it might cost. Head on past the break for a quick video demonstration.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/01/cree ... att-incan/

Personally I hope they get these on the market soon, the energy savings will be astounding for the average home, and no pesky mercury vapor to worry about.

You can buy the Osram Parathom A80 since some time:

http://www.osram.co.uk/_global/pdf/Misc ... _AddOn.pdf

My LED bulbs arrived from Hong Kong (2 months by tracked airmail):

E27 3W 42-LED Energy Saving Light Bulb (100~260V AC) - $5.49

GU10 3W 18-SMD 5050 LED White Light Bulb (110V) - $5.90

They aren't UL/CSA approved.

Next time I'll pay attention to the color temperature, these are way too blue.

The E27 is a spotlight, the GU10 is more of a flood, vice-versa would have been better.

The E27 is defective, it only draws 0.5W. Maybe they'll do something about it if they're in a good mood when they get back from New Years celebration - they shut down for a week.

pstarr wrote:I'd am looking for a bulb (led? CPF?) with a standard screw base that I will generate more light (100 watt equivalent) in a fixture that has a maximum 60 watt (incandescent) rating (for heat). Any ideas?

Osram now offers a 12W = 810 lumen LED "bulb" with good quality (at a high price).

If you want around 1.200 lumen (=100W incandescent) I assume that you will have to wait another 1-2 years...

I wouldn't buy that Chinese stuff at the moment.

Simple, "green" is the new way to extract "green" from your wallet.

Thank you, its called reality. For you everything is new, there is no such thing as long term memory, logic or any analysis of data.

I notice Sam's Club and Home Depot now carry LED bulbs and the prices have come down significantly (especially at Sam's).

Thinking of getting a couple of these (7-watt replacement, 340 lumens, $22) for my new apartment.

I bought a $20 LED desk lamp at Costco. It's a lot like a halogen lamp, but I like it quite a bit.

Hey who remembers when Tensor lamps were "cool" with the little incandescent bulbs?