Peak Oil News and Message Boards

SeaGypsy wrote:Saving energy is the only way to buy the time to find another means of operating our societies.

I get that. Use fuel more slowly. I suppose it does no harm and may do some good.

Outcast_Searcher wrote:So as for me, the answer to the "saving energy" question is a resounding "NO". Saving energy is NOT pointless. AGW MAY be true. Saving energy MAY give future generations a better chance to find a sustainable way of life without destroying the entire biosphere, or at least everything bigger than a cockroach.

Point taken.

Revi wrote:Saving energy has a point in my household.
We save about a thousand a year by heating with wood.
We save about $300 a year with solar hot water.
We save about $2000 a year with more efficient cars.
Insulating the house got us another thousand.
And we save about $200 a year by driving an NEV for stuff around town.
The point is $4500, some of which turns into movies and ice cream.
I'd say that saving energy is not pointless to us.

I totally agree. I'd even take the point a step further. Saving energy can translate into dollars that can then be used to continue getting more prepped for "the end". In a similar example, money I save by burning wood will go towards a solar hot water heater. Money I save on that will help pay for turning a wooded acre in front of my house into an orchard. Or maybe I'll pay off my mortgage. The point is that the money saved can be turned around and used to buy things that will further lower living costs or get more independent.

And maybe all the energy I and others save will put off "the end" for another day, which gives me another day of income and another day to prep. From that point of view its not in the least bit pointless.

I did not answer the poll due to the open nature of the question without specifics of what type of energy. That having been said, and considering the forum I can only imagine oil is being discussed. So, if that is the case, then a few other questions arise. Are you basing this blanket pessimistic attitude on the notion that oil is a finite resource that will dry up once used like a empty glass of water that could never be refilled by natural means? Are you perhaps thinking that the current rate of use is the reason for a potential shortfall? (Although I would have to bring up other past notions such as population explosion causing wordwide hunger or global cooling not too long ago). Is it because you just don't think that any other sources will be used due to what might be resistance to change? So many variables here.

Just so that everyone can immediately discount everything I just said: I am a mechanical engineer and have worked in the oil field (the little Bakken one) and currently drive a Chevy Chassis 36 foot MotorHOme (454 v-8) around 10MPG, A full size conversion Van 350 v-8 around 18 MPG, a Harley 883 around 45 MPG and the first working prototype diesel/electric I built, around 268 MPG.

furrybill wrote:

Revi wrote:Saving energy has a point in my household.
We save about a thousand a year by heating with wood.
We save about $300 a year with solar hot water.
We save about $2000 a year with more efficient cars.
Insulating the house got us another thousand.
And we save about $200 a year by driving an NEV for stuff around town.
The point is $4500, some of which turns into movies and ice cream.
I'd say that saving energy is not pointless to us.

I totally agree. I'd even take the point a step further. Saving energy can translate into dollars that can then be used to continue getting more prepped for "the end". In a similar example, money I save by burning wood will go towards a solar hot water heater. Money I save on that will help pay for turning a wooded acre in front of my house into an orchard. Or maybe I'll pay off my mortgage. The point is that the money saved can be turned around and used to buy things that will further lower living costs or get more independent.

And maybe all the energy I and others save will put off "the end" for another day, which gives me another day of income and another day to prep. From that point of view its not in the least bit pointless.

I totally agree with both comments. When we reduce energy consumption the savings can be reinvested into additional energy efficiency measures, thus creating more savings. Eventually the return on the investment pays for the investment and then future savings become money in the bank, or they allow us the freedom from energy bills. Some returns on investment take longer, and long-term planning is very important in forming the direction you wish to go. One has to decide whether or not they want to establish a lifestyle that is sustainable without fossil fuels.

My grandmother, who lived through the Great Depression, taught me many things. The most important lesson was "Waste not, Want not." She didn't believe this because she wanted to save the world. She believed in this philosophy because it had been a necessity for survival during a very hard time in her life. Widowed at 55, her life was always about being simple and frugal. I find that living this way is the key to a happy life.

Saving energy personally benefits me in the form of spending less on energy, but any energy I don't use just tets used by someone else.

Sub - I had a similar thought when I saw the thread title. Granted it's just a semantics game but no energy is really "saved": it get used by someone...either now or later. IOW when someone proposes doing X to "save energy" they are typically just proposing to delay its utilization sometime down the road. But eventually the energy gets used later.

And in some cases "later" is just seconds after you "saved" it.

If we're talking fossil fuels, then saving it is essential.

Fossils fuels are finite energy resources and every bit of fossil fuels burned just adds to the Greenhouse effect.

If we're talking renewable energy then saving energy is pointless---the supply is infinite.

It may be pointless for people with lots of money, but I find that it is one of the only ways to get ahead nowadays. Driving a small car has it's advantages. We have found that we can get everything I need to do done with a small pickup and a regular car for my wife. Saving energy on heating in the winter is money we have for other things.

Do what you want. Maybe driving around in a gigantic truck confers some kind of status which can be converted into some kind of social capital, but it seems like the biggest thing most people lug around is their ego.

Plantagenet wrote:If we're talking renewable energy then saving energy is pointless---the supply is infinite.

Theoretically. When there are enough green facilities to produce all we want. We're a LONG way away from that reality.

Until then, it's most assuredly NOT infinite. Also, there are substitution effects, so when using green energy is substituted for burning FF and helping delay/mitigate AGW, that's a good thing. Thus, wasting it on something else is a bad thing.