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Millions upon millions of older Americans and women and disabled people simply cannot ride these things.

Older, battle-ax-type ladies are the big shoppers. Think of the consequences of subtracting them from the buying public.

Hmmm . . . maybe not so bad!

But we go down as an economy.

Heineken wrote:Millions upon millions of older Americans and women and disabled people simply cannot ride these things.

True, and what about obese Americans, i heard there were a lot of them. They also can't ride bikes or scooters, some even can't walk. I don't know if that makes me laugh or cry.

But anyway, scooters and bikes are the future though. Look at those Asian countries. Millions and millions of scooters and bikes, some cars and some buses ride through the cities day in day out. It's cheap and easy and the logical step to more fuel efficiency. It's nuts to move 3 tons of steel to get to the store. It's alright to move 100kg's + yourself with fuel to get to the store. There is room for a lot of improvement. Wasting fuel is still going on daily. The thing is that at 10$/gallon we in the Netherlands still mostly drive cars. I guess it's a long way before anything actually changes.

jato wrote:A small displacement scooter will not work in my area. I need to go with the flow of traffic at 60 MPH. Therefore, I will be purchasing a KLR650, which gets 50-60 MPG. I will commute on the KLR.

Right on! Thats my commute scoot. I've had mine for 8 years. Durable, dependable, goes anywhere. Its the only thing that works for me given the 8 miles of unimproved (as in no gravel or culverts) dirt road I have to ride.

-G

Even if they get ten times the gas millage, they will be obsolete within a few years. Oil prices have gone up more than ten fold in about eight years. That rate seems to be now accelerating. Get over oil-powered transport.

And laugh while you can, monkey men.

dohboi wrote:Even if they get ten times the gas millage, they will be obsolete within a few years. Oil prices have gone up more than ten fold in about eight years. That rate seems to be now accelerating. Get over oil-powered transport.

Gasoline prices do not scale like oil prices do, due to taxation/refining/distribution costs. Since 2000, at ~$20/bbl, oil has increase in price by ~6.5 times, while gasoline has increased in price ~2.7 times. At $250/bbl, assuming the same increase, gasoline would be ~5.2 times what it used to be, and in order to pay the same on fuel, the average American driver would need a vehicle that gets ~88mpg, roughly what a small scooter gets.

That being said, at $250/bbl and nearly $7/gallon, Li-Fe-PO4 starts becoming competitive, and lead acid blows gas out of the water, in the same vehicle, albeit w/ poorer acceleration in the case on LAs.

yp wrote: "assuming the same increase"

Is this a good assumption? Surely, the whole sale oil price will have an ever-greater and more direct affect on retail gas price as the former goes through the roof.

So the future will be interstates full of 49cc scooters? This is going to get good. Can't wait until i see the first scooter pulling a boat. I think my chainsaw has as much HP as a scooter

Hawkcreek wrote:

Where did you go to and is your ass still numb?

Went from Spokane to Prineville and Bend Oregon and back. Lots of back roads.
My ass is doing fine. I have been riding bikes for over 40 years, and learned all the tricks for being comfortable years ago. (or maybe my ass just went numb)
Anyway, the KLR is a great ride. If I were going to ride 2 thousand miles I would probably take another bike, but for a short one, the KLR does fine.

How about a DR350?

http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=54706

Americans on mopeds - something doesn't quite add up...

We'd be wise to learn from the Italians.

49cc Vespa with 75mm recoilless rifle


"Mad Max, with some sensibility."

emersonbiggins wrote:Americans on mopeds - something doesn't quite add up...

There's no way I'm letting this photo go unseen.

dohboi wrote:yp wrote: "assuming the same increase"

Is this a good assumption? Surely, the whole sale oil price will have an ever-greater and more direct affect on retail gas price as the former goes through the roof.

That's definitely true, good catch. Assuming oil goes to $250/bbl, the current cost of crude per gallon of gas, .73($3.46)=$2.53, would go to (250/130)$2.53=$4.86 plus taxes at .11*$4.86=$.53, and refinery/marketing (shouldn't change a whole lot) at .16($3.46)=$.55, so gas should be ~$6/gallon, or ~4.7 times what it was in Jan of 2000.

I didn't expressly state what you pointed out, but my guesstimate must have included it since running through the math results in something lower. So the average driver would only need to get ~80mpg to spend the same they did on gas in 2000.

As far as scooters/mopeds go, does anyone know if there a viable electric technology incorporated in these that is set to debut soon?

I've actually been looking at scooters for a while. In Austin, it's very viable transportation. Sunny and warm most of the year, not that many freeways, lots of smaller roads to choose from. Other cars on the road would be a menace, which is a downside.

The Yamaha Vino 125 seems to be a real gem at $2500, 90 MPG, 55-60 MPH.
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx

I get 55 to 60mpg on my Triumph. It's injected and I ride mostly in town.
The Vespah that I had actually got over 100MPG consistently and it was a 50cc model 2 stroke.
I also had a Suzuki FA 50 that did nearly 100MPG. I see nothing wrong with this mode of transportation and wish local governments allowed lanesplitting to further entice two-wheeling. It would just be cool to be able to zip past giant tubs of steel on 4 wheels as you roll up to the stoplight. If the 25MPH limit were done away with on mopeds we'd have an even better system because you'd have more route options for travel.

On a bike, you have far less frontal area and you drag coefficient had got to be smaller than a normal vehicle's.

This is bit of scooter news showing what's happening to the scooter market lately. A week on a gallon, huh. I get two weeks.

U.S. scooter sales have risen 65.7 percent in the first half of 2008, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council, making the industry one of the biggest beneficiaries of a more than 30 percent spike in oil prices this year.

"They are just flying out of here," said Steve Travers, who manages a scooter and motorcycle dealership in midtown Manhattan. "Consumers want to escape gas prices, they can't afford to drive their cars and they want an inexpensive way to get around."

Riding a scooter is like making love to a fat chick.
It's all good fun until your friends see you!


Just a little joke. They are a practical alternative for short commutes. Doesn't really fit my situation personally but I can see the attraction for sure.

Here is the situation:
1. I am in my 50's, and have never been the driver of a motorcycle, although I have been the rider for an extended (vacation) trip and many short trips (I could arrange to take a course in motorcycle riding.)
2. My employer (I contract) pays my mileage ($0.585/mile)regardless of what I drive/ride
3. I commute to four different outlying locations -- three days/month the commutes are either too far or up too steep a grade for me to consider anything besides an enclosed vehicle.
4. Other days of the month the commute is either 42 miles round trip or 54 miles round trip - certainly doable on a motorcycle, I would think
5. Weather where we live would make it practical to use a motorcycle to commute for 7 months a year ... and more like 8 months, really, if one kept an eye on the weather. (Occasional warmer days earlier in spring and later into the fall.)
6. Would need to carry a laptop (have a backpack this fits into) and some files daily. (Thinking paniers for these.)

I am looking for thoughts as to what might be the best ride for me to look at buying. Cost is a factor. Comfort is a factor. Safety is a factor.

Ideas, please?

Lumpy

Check out: http://www.msf-usa.org/

If you start riding you'll probably wonder why you didn't start 30 years earlier! Definitely take a safety course though: you can often sign-up somewhere and get a beginner's permit in one weekend.

good luck!

Frank wrote:Check out: http://www.msf-usa.org/

If you start riding you'll probably wonder why you didn't start 30 years earlier! Definitely take a safety course though: you can often sign-up somewhere and get a beginner's permit in one weekend.

good luck!

Thanks for answering ... I was about to give up on this thread as a source of info!

No, I didn't start riding in my 20's because I was a single parent ... hard to tote around two little boys on the back of a motorcycle!

Thanks again,
Lumpy

frankthetank wrote:A guy at Menards yesterday claimed he put on 459 miles using 3 gallons of gas on a scooter (guessing a 49cc model)?? I didn't think they got that good of fuel mileage. The dude was like 300 pounds!

Mileage varies a lot depending on whether the scooter is 2 or 4 stroke, your weight - much more influence than with a car - and how you drive. Driving gently using hypermiling techniques has a big influence. I drive a Honda SH125i, 2007 model, liquid cooled, fuel injected 'large wheel' motor scooter. I'm getting 100MPG (imperial gallon & Im ..um.. weighty and 6'1"). Other bloggers have reported up to 125MPG. (imperial).

Honda SH125i
Honda Sh125i reviews
... I think Honda uses different names for some of its bikes in different parts of the worlds. I knw this scooter has a different name in the USA but can remember what

I use mine mainly urban/suburban commuting and for shopping - 2 bags of groceries in the topbox (Shad35litre), and 2 sitting in the middle of the the platform held stable by a conveniently provided clip on the back of the fairing. Only disadvantage of this design is the limited underseat storage due to the big wheels - but I'd rather have the stability advantage of the big wheels any day. Otherwise everything is great - Honda reliability and build quality, no problems at all so far.- which cant be said for some of the cheaper Chinese scooters, as bought by a couple of people I know. If you're thinking of buying Chinese - do your research before buying, not after!