[Clouseau2]

I always thought this design would be the best one possible (putting elecric motors inside the wheels) ... Looks like they've managed to do it in The Netherlands:

50 percent more efficient bus and quiet too

[Clouseau2]

Sorry, this is NOT new, they've been testing the technology for 4 years now, seems to work pretty well.

14 MPG for a city bus vs. (they claim) 3.5 MPG for a conventional USA diesel bus.

And no new fuel sources needed, it runs on diesel.

[Frank]

That's pretty neat - this is one of the best bus solutions I've seen yet. Check out consumption data at: http://www.e-traction.com/

[gg3]

Interesting design. Agreed, could have significant efficiency benefits, and the powertrain concept is cool (1700 rpm diesel continually charging the battery pack), even if not a "new" "breakthrough."

Looks like the rear wheel/tire assembly is about 1-1/2x the diameter of the front, and that some modifications to the body of the bus were needed. Anyone know anything about that?

[backstop]

While this design would in theory allow 2.5 busses to run on the present fossil fuel supply for one, it does not of course affect the energy used in their manufacture.

Thus I'd suggest that its key impact lies in the evident possibility of retro-fitting such a drive system to existing chassis vehicles.

As always with such developments, there is no indication of just where all the energy saved is going to be stored to prevent its purchase and use by another country . . .

regards,

Backstop

[oilfreeandhappy]

Now if only the US could improve the stigma associated with bus riding. Greyhound could start by making their buses as comfortable and enjoyable to ride as the First Class buses Mexico.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

[emersonbiggins]

Now if only the US could improve the stigma associated with bus riding. Greyhound could start by making their buses as comfortable and enjoyable to ride as the First Class buses Mexico.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

That's not likely. General Motors spent millions of dollars converting streetcar service to buses (and subsequently cutting service) in order to force you into their vehicles. Obviously, it worked, as only the most indigent have been riding the buses for the last 30 years or so. Undoing that damage won't be easy - or cheap.

[oilfreeandhappy]

Now if only the US could improve the stigma associated with bus riding. Greyhound could start by making their buses as comfortable and enjoyable to ride as the First Class buses Mexico.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

That's not likely. General Motors spent millions of dollars converting streetcar service to buses (and subsequently cutting service) in order to force you into their vehicles. Obviously, it worked, as only the most indigent have been riding the buses for the last 30 years or so. Undoing that damage won't be easy - or cheap.

Yes, but wouldn't this imply that Greyhound and GM are connected? I don't think this is the case. I think I'll write a letter to Greyhound, expressing my opinions, and see what they have to say.

[emersonbiggins]

Now if only the US could improve the stigma associated with bus riding. Greyhound could start by making their buses as comfortable and enjoyable to ride as the First Class buses Mexico.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

That's not likely. General Motors spent millions of dollars converting streetcar service to buses (and subsequently cutting service) in order to force you into their vehicles. Obviously, it worked, as only the most indigent have been riding the buses for the last 30 years or so. Undoing that damage won't be easy - or cheap.

Yes, but wouldn't this imply that Greyhound and GM are connected? I don't think this is the case. I think I'll write a letter to Greyhound, expressing my opinions, and see what they have to say.

You're suggesting an investment in highly-efficient buses will improve Greyhound's image, and the image of bus transit in general. I'd say it's not the buses, per se, that are the "image" problem, but rather who is forced to ride them, those devoid of any other options. And why is this, you might ask? Well, bus travel is amongst the most ephemeral forms of transit, and Greyhound is no exception. The bus station in my hometown has been in no less than 5 locations in the last 10 years. How can one plan for the future around that? "No thanks, I'll just drive..." PO might change this attitude towards transit, but I don't think buying new buses will make the bitter pill go down any better.

[oilfreeandhappy]

You're suggesting an investment in highly-efficient buses will improve Greyhound's image, and the image of bus transit in general. I'd say it's not the buses, per se, that are the "image" problem, but rather who is forced to ride them, those devoid of any other options. And why is this, you might ask? Well, bus travel is amongst the most ephemeral forms of transit, and Greyhound is no exception. The bus station in my hometown has been in no less than 5 locations in the last 10 years. How can one plan for the future around that? "No thanks, I'll just drive..." PO might change this attitude towards transit, but I don't think buying new buses will make the bitter pill go down any better.

I agree it will take more than modern buses. Much more. Massive AD campaigns would be required to change the image. And your point is well taken about the location of Greyhound stations. In many cities they are in seedy areas. I certainly don't have all the answers. Being an Engineer, this is not my field of expertise. It just seems strange to me that Mexico can have this High Class bus system, and the US cannot.

[pea-jay]

Okay, if we have gone through the effort to run a bus (more efficiently mind you) electrically, lets take the step one further and put a pair of these on them:



Basically that's what you have right now, just minus the pantographs. I am not saying that we need to re-wire everywhere, but just imagine a city with a fleet of diesel-electric busses. Instead of just running them to-and-from wherever, they could relatively cheaply string overhead wire in the heavily congested or well traveled routes where the bus could draw directly off the line, yet go off line for route derivations, or to service less traveled areas. During that time, the diesel could be switched off. It's kind of the best-bang for the buck kind of deal.

Neat.

[emersonbiggins]

Personally, I'd rather see the resurgence of light rail, modern trams and trolleys - hard infrastructure that developers can build mixed-use corridors around and not worry about local bus service being nixed in two years, taking the whole area with it.

[pea-jay]

Nothing against hard infrastructure (it is definately required in greater quantities) but my point was a diesel-electric bus combined with partial electrification offers some real benefits with significantly lower upfront expenditure costs.

Besides, as fuel increases in cost, the comparitive value of a hybrid diesel-electric bus system only looks better. These kinds of investments would be harder to undo than a conventional bus line.

[emersonbiggins]

Nothing against hard infrastructure (it is definately required in greater quantities) but my point was a diesel-electric bus combined with partial electrification offers some real benefits with significantly lower upfront expenditure costs.

Besides, as fuel increases in cost, the comparitive value of a hybrid diesel-electric bus system only looks better. These kinds of investments would be harder to undo than a conventional bus line.

True, it's a step in the right direction, to be sure.
With the right voltage and gauge of electric lines, the transition to hard infrastructure wouldn't be that difficult, as many towns original streetcar tracks remain relatively intact, albeit under 4" of asphalt.

Grab a shovel!

[Caoimhan]

I like true street car light rail. I mean, where the rails aren't their own lane, and cars can drive in the same lane.

This diesel-electric hybrid bus could also theoretically be built with a power attachment to run under the same overhead lines as the streetcars. Those parts of the bus route that run under the lines would eliminate the need for the diesel motor to kick in.

It would be a great transition technology. In fact, even before the rails are laid, the overhead power lines could be installed just for the busses.

Phase 1: Buy the diesel-electric hybrid busses.
Phase 2a: Install overhead power lines on major boulevards, where eventual streetcar traffic will run.
Phase 2b: Install the power arms on top of the hybrid busses, so they can utilize the power lines.
Phase 3: Lay rail in the lanes (this can actually go pretty quickly).
Phase 4: Buy the streetcars and start them running routes.

Eventually, streetcars can run on all the major boulevards, while busses are converted to run mostly local routes, where overhead power lines aren't practical. When they DO run under the powerlines, they can still link directly to grid power.

Note that having busses that can go off-grid will be helpful while the rail is being laid (phase 3). Those sections of road where the lane is closed for rail-laying can be bypassed by the busses in another lane.

[pea-jay]

I like true street car light rail. I mean, where the rails aren't their own lane, and cars can drive in the same lane.

I don't like mixing cars and light rail. It increases the risk of accidents and prevents the rail from reaching speeds where travel becomes advantageous. With vehicular traffic declining in the future anyway, why not steal the lane from road use anyway, especially where there are more than 2 lanes of travel each way.

This diesel-electric hybrid bus could also theoretically be built with a power attachment to run under the same overhead lines as the streetcars. Those parts of the bus route that run under the lines would eliminate the need for the diesel motor to kick in.

Trolley busses need 2 wires for the electricity to make a proper circuit. Street cars need only one because the steel rails allow proper flow of electricity. So they are not completely interchangable. However it doesn't preclude them from stringing them from side by side or the street car using the "hot" wire only of the overhead lines. On the Market St corridor of downtown San Francisco, you can see trolley busses and street cars on the same alignment.



A light rail pantograph however is wide and would imagine short out the two wire set up of the trolley bus. But it is possible i would imagine and a good use of resources.

I think saving the street cars for the highest capacity cooridors makes the most sense as it is the most expensive solution.

Like I said, this is a neat technology.

[criticalmass]

VW is looking at hub motors for their new hybrids in a Jetta package.
I wish I still had the link for everyone, but the jist of it is a small efficient diesel that charges an onboard traction pack (batteries) There is no diret drive from the gas motor as all it does is serves as a generator. The battery pack powers a smart controller that makes for a fast, fun 4WD that is ultra-efficient.

Way nicer than a crudely converted EV Chevy pickup