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Another analysis on the topic: http://www.ilea.org/lcas/macleanlave1998.html

I agree that the first study has some flawed assumptions, however, the jury is still out on the useful life of hybrids.

I'm always suspicious of new vehicles, as too many have a history of letting the customer do the final testing. Witness the Chevy Vega with it's aluminum block (died after about 50k miles), and the Olds diesel engine that disintegrated on a whim, and even the Blackhawk Helicopter, known to airfame and maintenance personell as, "many thousands of unrelated parts, reluctantly flying in close formation".

For the life of me, I cannot understand people who rush out to buy something new, given the track record of new items.

I agree about new vehicles, but that's more of a case by case basis than something that applies to an entire segment.

yesplease,
So true. There is tremendous promise in EV's and hybrids. I particularly like electronic braking, that recovers a large share of energy used for acceleration, which is entirely lost in ICE vehicles.

Too many years in new product development and equipment debug have made me ultra conservative about new product claims. Typically, new products are put on the market before they are ready. By the time the marketing people get done putting their spin on new stuff, it is unrecognizable to the people who built it! The general public is left to do the last of the debug and sort out the truth from product claims. Meanwhile, us guys who were involved in creating the product are seen as scapegoats for the defects.

Sorry if I come across as negative, I don't mean to be, only cautionary about getting to the truth.

So, I am trying to get rid of my Honda Accord. You'd think for a Honda sedan it would get good gas mileage, but driving around like I had an egg between my foot and the accelerator and doing a lot of coasting, I was only able to get 20mpg with 100% city driving (V-6, 6-speed manual, 2006 model). Granted its cold, and where I live requires 10% ethanol in the gas, the mpg is still low.

So, I was wondering if now was a good time to buy a hybrid. Right now you can pick a Prius up for 10% of MSRP, maybe better if you haggle, and there are plenty in stock. The way things are accelerating with the deteriorating economy and increasing oil prices I wonder if it would be wise to try to beat the rush. Even if I feel like I couldn't afford a new car payment, I could probably get my money back out of it and then some if I sold it, if gas prices were to really spike. This happened when gas first hit $3/gallon. There was a rush on Prius's and none were to be found, and you had to pay a premium on them.

On the other hand, maybe I could just get an el cheapo 4 cylinder compact with 5 speed and wait it out a couple years until the plug in hybrids become available. But, if gas prices have gone out of control by then, getting your hands on one might be very difficult.

Just some thoughts. What do you think?

A better idea, which will save you a lot more cash is move closer to work, if you aren’t already; and get your self several good bikes.

I did this myself 10 years ago and have never regretted it.

I should have been prepared for the bikes comment. Yes, I have bikes, I am biking to work tomorrow. I work at a coal fired power plant that is 4 miles away. But, there are days when riding to work is improbable due to icy, butt cold conditions. So, its not going to happen unless I am forced into it (shortages, etc.).

Well, the efficiency of any car is decreased when driving short distances (4 miles to work), and that includes hybrids. With 100% city driving, a hybrid would probably be better than any other new car. Financially, though, it rarely makes sense. Here's an example:

Let's say you buy a good used Toyota Corolla for $12K which gets around 30mpg. You drive 15k miles a year @ $4/gallon x 500 gallons = $2000/year.

You're not happy, so you buy a Prius for $25k. We'll be generous and say that you average 60 mpg. You only burn 250 gallons, meaning that you save $1000 a year. Congrats, you only have to drive the Prius for 13 years before you break even.

The point is, do a life-cycle cost analysis if you're really worried about the financial impact. As far as "beating the rush", if gas skyrockets I don't think too many US consumers are going to have the money to buy a new car anyway. Plus, a lot of car manufacturers are planning on releasing more hybrids and diesels (which actually get better gas mileage than hybrids, in most cases) over the next few years.

In your case, I'm sure there are lost of trains that come and go from the plant - just jump on one of those

I wont' tell you what to do or anything like as nobody reallly know the future, so I'll that tell you what I'm doing

I don't do like hybrid for few reasons
1) complicated I don't know if regular mechanic knows how to fix it
2) underpowered, has two engines making it pretty heavy for the power it heas
3) won't run as long as regular engine because it has batteries which sooner or later die too

I don't know what the deal with the dealers is, maybe there is extended warrenty and all the technical problems are resolved but I know I'm waiting or WV Rabbit TDI (not confirmed yet I hope it will be) - I love hatchbacks, if regular sedans don't bother you like me then you could get VW Jetta TDI 2009

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/a ... 35586.html

test drive
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrive ... ta_tdi.htm

whatever you decide good luck

moawdtsi wrote:On the other hand, maybe I could just get an el cheapo 4 cylinder compact with 5 speed and wait it out a couple years until the plug in hybrids become available.

Just some thoughts. What do you think?

I've got a hybrid. Its nice, does great when its warm and around town. But I won't buy another....its a great gadgety kinda car...but at the end of the day its just an efficiency gimmick. The EV's and PHEV's are the game changers, I'm going to trade my hybrid in on whoever gets a decent mass marketed one of those out first.

I agree with the too complicated bit. Hybrids are very complex machines, repairing one will be very costly, getting parts might be an issue. This is why if I bought one, I might try to dump it at the next gas price spike (say $4/gallon) to make back some money from having to sell my current car, and also get rid of my debt (my accord and my mortgage are my only two debts I have right now).

As far as the economics, well, I don't know if I should stop at $4/gallon when doing an analysis. Westexas on the oildrum says prepare for $8/gallon. The car would pay back quicker then, thing is though, at prices that high, everything else is going to be very inflated, I might be hurtin pretty bad from that.

I keep going back and forth between a cheap used corolla and a hybrid. My sister has a prizm and her husband a vibe, both 5-speeds, both with the same drivetrain as a corolla, so that might be an opportunity for cheap interchangeable parts in the future. Thanks for the input so far in helping me make this decision.

Third posting in three years. And you ask us what kind of car to buy.

News of our[s] communal[/s] combined wisdom in all matters has obviously spread far and wide.

eastbay wrote:Third posting in three years. And you ask us what kind of car to buy.

News of our[s] communal[/s] combined wisdom in all matters has obviously spread far and wide.

What's wrong with that? Things my stay together fairly well for the next few years, no one knows, just trying to mitigate the best I can for my situation.

Nothing wrong at all. Perfectly fine, in fact. Speaks well of our reputation around here, in fact!

I would skip the hybrid. Go go for a stick Civic... used... an '06. Just make sure some punk kid didn't ever drive it. Each mile they put on a car is equal to about 100 miles from a normal cautious driver.

I know.

Since you can already do that, bike when ya can, then buy an older four cylinder manual trans car outright like ya mentioned for a few hundred and use that. Should be good for 30-45mpg, and just go bargain hunting some tools/spare parts so you can fix it if it breaks down.

I had a pickup that I got rid of last summer. I ran the numbers on severall different approaches, including a hybrid, with gas at several different price points.

I bought a new 5 speed Toyota Camry CE, which is the bottom of the line, but is equipped very nicely. I paid $17,900 for it (got a couple of extras). I get between 26 and 28 mpg in mixed driving with a lot of stop and go traffic driving. I would get over 30 on the highway.

It's a very roomy and comfortable car. I wanted to buy a Corolla or Matrix, but the Camry only cost a little more and the mileage was only a little worse. I'm very happy with the car. Most dealers will only keep one or two CEs on the lot, but you can always get one from another dealer. The Camry CE is much better equipped than the Honda Accord DX, which looks awful (black handles, black mirrors, stuff like that). This vehicle will have better resale than the other options I considered as well.

It would have taken a LOT of driving a hybrid to make it cost effective.

I'm not impressed by hybrids at all. With that amount of technology I would like to see WAY better mileage than they are delivering. But the hybrids do provide great mileage in stop and go driving.

The Camry hybrid is nice, I'm sure, I just didn't want to spend what it costs.

Hybrid? Now is the time to bend over and kiss your arse goodbye. Because of the obesity epidemic most Americans will have to be blowing their arse a kiss goodbye. Still and all, this is it boys and girls the dull ache becomes a persistent pain very soon. Don't be too sad. Dreams may die, but dreamers are forever young. God wins in the end.

Gandalf_the_White wrote:Hybrid? Now is the time to bend over and kiss your arse goodbye. Because of the obesity epidemic most Americans will have to be blowing their arse a kiss goodbye. Still and all, this is it boys and girls the dull ache becomes a persistent pain very soon. Don't be too sad. Dreams may die, but dreamers are forever young. God wins in the end.

Gandalf, I have read several of your posts from this evening, and I think you might want to just go on to bed.

BigTex wrote:

Gandalf_the_White wrote:Hybrid? Now is the time to bend over and kiss your arse goodbye. Because of the obesity epidemic most Americans will have to be blowing their arse a kiss goodbye. Still and all, this is it boys and girls the dull ache becomes a persistent pain very soon. Don't be too sad. Dreams may die, but dreamers are forever young. God wins in the end.

Gandalf, I have read several of your posts from this evening, and I think you might want to just go on to bed.

Unless you know me personally or are trying to convey a threat (which I will state for the record I would report to the FBI) I don't have to go to bed. Nanannananana!

BigTex, is that like Big Texas Toast? Cause toast is what the economy is going to look like and taste like in about four months. At least allow a person to grieve in their own annoying fashion.

;-!

The hybrid would pay off for its resale value, since used cars now sell for more dollars than their purchase price. Forget about saving money on fuel. Whether gas is $8 or $20, it's only getting U a 20% reduction & most people just borrow the gas money against their houses & take a government bailout.